PROTEST (2008 thread)

[Lennys Tap]

I would say it falls apart even way before that.

Crean signed a 10 year contract, Buzz quit because of a number of factors, one of which was the Katrina situation and how the school was figuring out what to do.  Then you have the IU job opening up which no one knew that was going to happen (nor was Crean IU's first choice).  Then you look at Buzz's history as an assistant, he never stayed longer than 4 years anywhere and never north of the Mason Dixon line.

That's a lot of big dominoes, all independent of one another to fall.  Now you throw in the "search" that included a couple of other coaches before Buzz and well......let's just say it's a cute theory but nothing more.   

Conspiracy theories are always popular because mysterious is more fun than the obvious. They're also usually wrong.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Conspiracy theories are always popular because mysterious is more fun than the obvious. They're also usually wrong.

You are correct sir

[Goose]

hairy


If Goose is one the respected and level headed posters on Scoop I think this board needs a shrink more than I do.

[ChicosBailBonds]

hairy


If Goose is one the respected and level headed posters on Scoop I think this board needs a shrink more than I do.

Been saying that for years....there's been plenty of people that stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and have played psychoanalyst here just for giggles.   

[Lennys Tap]

hairy


If Goose is one the respected and level headed posters on Scoop I think this board needs a shrink more than I do.

Goose - you're a passionate Warrior fan who calls it like he sees it, never gets personal and admits when he's wrong. Many here (myself included) could be better at following that example.

[NavinRJohnson]

Crean signed a 10 year extension with MU in Fall 2006.

I'm sorry, Perhaps I've been asleep for the last 5 years.  Is Crean still coaching MU? How many of those 10 years did he stick around for? That extension has nothing to do with anything. Why wouldn't he sign it whether he planned to stay or not? So if Coach K or Roy williams retire, and Duke or UNC come knocking on Shaka Smart's door, he's going to turn them down because he signed a 10 year extension? Ridiculous. He may turn them down, but it isn't going to be because of his contract with VCU.

Kelvin Sampson was named the head coach of the Hoosiers in Spring of 2006, and was forced to resign in February 2008.  If Sampson would have kept his nose clean, there is not a chance that job opens up at that point.

But he didn't, and the trouble didn't begin in Feb of 2008, it ended there. You honestly think that was the first anyone knew about it, or that he may be in trouble? Please. As CBB is constantly reminding us, I4 was a gigantic mess, that took five years to clean up. That doesn't happen overnight, nor without a whole lot of people knowing what's going on.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm sorry, Perhaps I've been asleep for the last 5 years.  Is Crean still coaching MU? How many of those 10 years did he stick around for? That extension has nothing to do with anything. Why wouldn't he sign it whether he planned to stay or not? So if Coach K or Roy williams retire, and Duke or UNC come knocking on Shaka Smart's door, he's going to turn them down because he signed a 10 year extension? Ridiculous. He may turn them down, but it isn't going to be because of his contract with VCU.
But he didn't, and the trouble didn't begin in Feb of 2008, it ended there. You honestly think that was the first anyone knew about it, or that he may be in trouble? Please. As CBB is constantly reminding us, I4 was a gigantic mess, that took five years to clean up. That doesn't happen overnight, nor without a whole lot of people knowing what's going on.

I think you are missing the timelines.  It's not nearly as hard as you make it out.  Crean signed a 10 year extension, he had no idea that the IU job would be open in 2 years.  NONE.  He wasn't even their first choice.  No one is going to argue with you that the contract doesn't mean anything, just like any other coaches contract.  We all get that.  No one disputes that nor does anyone dispute Smart's contract with VCU means a hill of beans.

When Sampson was hired, the mess hadn't started yet, that was a year AFTER Crean signed a contract at MU.  Yes, it was a gigantic mess...I didn't say it would take 5 years to clean up, I said it would take 5 years to get back to the level of where IU should be.  It took about 2 years to clean up, and a lot of painful losses with players (especially year one and two) that had no business playing at IU, let alone the Big Ten (not all players, but a lot of them).  But to get them back, yeah, that was a 5 year plan which is what Glass, TC and the powers that be knew it would take.  That's why there was no panic at year 3 when many were saying he was going to get fired.

So let's just stop with foolishness on this one. 

[Eldon]

Goose is THEGYMBAR. Willing to take any abuse out there over comments made in 2008 regarding Buzz, the coach. Not going to rehash my comments on the process of the hiring, which I felt was poor then and still feel that way.

As for changing names, honestly not sure why that was done. In looking back it seems like I took a ten month break from posting and came back as Goose.

Props for owning up.  If "Goose" is a Top Gun reference, you have totally redeemed yourself.

[GGGG]

I'm sorry, Perhaps I've been asleep for the last 5 years.  Is Crean still coaching MU? How many of those 10 years did he stick around for? That extension has nothing to do with anything. Why wouldn't he sign it whether he planned to stay or not? So if Coach K or Roy williams retire, and Duke or UNC come knocking on Shaka Smart's door, he's going to turn them down because he signed a 10 year extension? Ridiculous. He may turn them down, but it isn't going to be because of his contract with VCU.
But he didn't, and the trouble didn't begin in Feb of 2008, it ended there. You honestly think that was the first anyone knew about it, or that he may be in trouble? Please. As CBB is constantly reminding us, I4 was a gigantic mess, that took five years to clean up. That doesn't happen overnight, nor without a whole lot of people knowing what's going on.

You highlighted two parts of the post, which lead me to believe that you tought they were linked, and insinuated that we were naive.

I know contracts are worthless so it didn't surprise me that Crean left.  However it simply doesn't make sense that he knew the Indiana job was going to open up, and that he would get the job, in the summer of 2007 when he hired Buzz.  None whatsoever.

[NavinRJohnson]

I think you are missing the timelines.  It's not nearly as hard as you make it out.  Crean signed a 10 year extension, he had no idea that the IU job would be open in 2 years.  NONE. 

Nobody's arguing that, nor did I bring that up. It isn't relevant.  You jokers brought up the completely meaningless contract extension. The time line I was talking about was relative to to Buzz William's hiring at Marquette. He cam to MU in July, sampson was out by the following February, and Crean was there in April. To suggest that a whole lot of people don't know there was trouble brewing at I4 6-8 months before it became public and Sampson was shown the door is incredibly naiave. Again, was it laid out and set in stone? No, of course not. Were people positioning themselves knowing the possibility/opportunity existed? I think you'd be foolish to think otherwise.

That said, I've lost interest. Planned or not, MU upgraded their coach.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

No one is going to argue with you that the contract doesn't mean anything, just like any other coaches contract.  We all get that.  No one disputes that nor does anyone dispute Smart's contract with VCU means a hill of beans.

Not to nitpick, but a contract extension like Crean's at MU or Smart's at VCU does have implications... it makes it more expensive for another school to hire them away. In Crean's case there aren't many schools that would have been able to afford buying him out of his contract plus giving him a raise.

Same thing applies to Smart now. It gives the coach reasonably secure income, and reduces the number of legitimate competitors for Smart's services.

[mu-rara]

Not to nitpick, but a contract extension like Crean's at MU or Smart's at VCU does have implications... it makes it more expensive for another school to hire them away. In Crean's case there aren't many schools that would have been able to afford buying him out of his contract plus giving him a raise.

Same thing applies to Smart now. It gives the coach reasonably secure income, and reduces the number of legitimate competitors for Smart's services.

IIRC, wasn't Crean's buyout on the light side?

[GGGG]

Nobody's arguing that, nor did I bring that up. It isn't relevant.  You jokers brought up the completely meaningless contract extension. The time line I was talking about was relative to to Buzz William's hiring at Marquette. He cam to MU in July, sampson was out by the following February, and Crean was there in April. To suggest that a whole lot of people don't know there was trouble brewing at I4 6-8 months before it became public and Sampson was shown the door is incredibly naiave.

The allegations about Sampson at IU didn't surface until October 2007....a few months after Buzz Williams was hired at MU.

There is absolutely no connection whatsoever.  Don't label people as "naive" simply because you can't find evidence for assertions that don't exist.

[Eldon]

And, for what it's worth, I bet recruits hear that the coach is signed til 2028, and it makes them feel good about picking that school because they think that the coach is "under contract" and will always be there.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

And, for what it's worth, I bet recruits hear that the coach is signed til 2028, and it makes them feel good about picking that school because they think that the coach is "under contract" and will always be there.

Not sure if that was made public. My understanding of Buzz's contract is that the buyout is large ($3m-ish?) for a 6 year rolling agreement?

Point is I'm not afraid of losing Buzz because his contract just ran out and whoops he leaves... it's from a Kentucky/Texas/etc hiring him away and buying out his contract.

if we keep Buzz's buyout high I can't imaging Texas being able to afford firing Barnes (who is already among the highest paid HCs and must have a hefty buyout in place), buying out Buzz, and then giving Buzz a raise on top of that.

Brought it up in other threads but the Texas legislature held up a $200k raise for Barnes last year. I'm just not concerned about that as a place Buzz would leave for.

[muarmy81]

mmmm...bump

[LAZER]

bump

[madtownwarrior]

awesome bump - how did the 2008 protest turn out?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

bump

So you're going to bump a thread protesting the Buzz Williams hire?

I assume this is to remind us how many protesters their were in 2008 to the Buzz hire and despite the number of protesters, there was still plenty of crow to go around?

Welcome Coach Wojo!

[Coleman]

Thank you for bumping this.

STFU about the Wojo hire, unless its to welcome him.

Welcome to MU coach.

[muarmy81]

ha!  I was just watching some of these threads and thinking to myself..."this looks awfully familiar to when MU hired Buzz".

Hope it works out as well or better than the Buzz hire.  Time will tell...

[Benny B]

Bump.

[Wade for President]

Thank you for bumping this.

STFU about the Wojo hire, unless its to welcome him.

Welcome to MU coach.

AMEN