Who gets lapped

[DoctorV]

Alright, less than 3 weeks out so it's time to get to the nitty gritty.

Scoop has been very seashells and balloons, and that's ok. I'm very seashells and balloons as well.

This is NOT a knock on any of the current starters. This is conversation amongst fans of a perennial top 25 NCAAb team that has a man in charge that's able, and the hopes and dream of its fanbase to match, to take us back to the promised land.

That said and out of the way, let's just make it crystal clear by saying that getting passed up on the depth chart on a team as good as Marquette is no slight, there is a solid role for 7-9 guys in every championship team.

So, all that said and the emotions out of the way, who gets passed up in the rotation?
I don't mean in November, I mean for the final 3rd stretch of the season and into the dance.
Disclaimer #3: I am in no way rooting for anyone to get lapped (as in getting lapped in the mile, not at silk)


5 presumed starters: (tbd by coach smart on 11/4)

1) Kam- forgettaboutit

2) Stevie- very low probability imo, although not impossible. He's got one of the likely suspects to slide into a premier role, Damarius Owens, handling the ball and playing an impressive role on both ends of the floor in camp, by all accounts.
After all, a backcourt of Kam and Damarius, with 3 other "bigs" is an extreme benefit from a size perspective.
Stevie does it all, however, and his defense alone keeps him in an elite roll.
I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but he's got the personality to understand if/when he's got to take a back seat so it's not unfathomable. Side note, don't forget SJ22.

3) Chase- Newly inserted starter. Practice darling and a "dude." Showed some great promise very late in the season and per Shaka battled injury all year, even the type we didn't know about, and is a valued warrior.
All in all didn't live up to the gametime hype last year, so a mystery of which Chase we get.

In that Swiss army 3 spot roll he has a chance to get nipped by a combo of things if he doesn't perform- Damarius or Tre at the 1 with Stevie at the 3 in a 3 guard set, Zaide, or something wild like Ben sliding to the 4 at the hands of Caedin or Royce, moving Jop to the 3.
We are all hoping Chase lives up to the abilities Shaka thinks will take him to that next level.

4) Jop- His ceiling is top 5 scorer in the BE. His floor is brick city and passed up by an underclassman.
His body of work is too strong as a scorer, as a pure shooter. That stroke can be so pure, and although it's hard to shake that abysmal performance against NCSt he deserves several mulligans.
Multiple poor shooting and poor defensive performances open the door for someone to slide into his spot, however.
Zaide or Royce or Owens, Ben over to the 4? Harder for him to get replaced for multiple reasons imo, including need for scoring and overall body of work, thinness of the front court.
Hopefully it doesn't happen because I've said multiple times Jop is the X Factor for the season.

5) Ben- Newly inserted starter. Biggest wildcard. Biggest question mark.
Haven't heard much about him in camp, but the scoop intelligentsia think he has NBA hopes in his bones.
I've heard Shaka and Oso compliment him on several occasions, but is that just them trying to instill confidence?
I've heard praise of Caedin all camp, but is that just trying to light a fire in Ben?
It'll be interesting to see how this one goes.
Cut from the NZ team this summer, and you haven't heard too much in terms of praise. Shoots a lot from outside, but can he shoot?
If he scuffles who replaces him, Caedin, Royce, lift the redshirt on Josh?
Move Jop to the 5?
I'm most worried about the 5 spot because of the lack of depth that you can count on at this position.

Thoughts?

[MU82]

None of the above.

[tower912]

Shaka rides with experience.   The shuffling, if there is any, is on the depth chart.

[MuggsyB]

Alright, less than 3 weeks out so it's time to get to the nitty gritty.

Scoop has been very seashells and balloons, and that's ok. I'm very seashells and balloons as well.

This is NOT a knock on any of the current starters. This is conversation amongst fans of a perennial top 25 NCAAb team that has a man in charge that's able, and the hopes and dream of its fanbase to match, to take us back to the promised land.

That said and out of the way, let's just make it crystal clear by saying that getting passed up on the depth chart on a team as good as Marquette is no slight, there is a solid role for 7-9 guys in every championship team.

So, all that said and the emotions out of the way, who gets passed up in the rotation?
I don't mean in November, I mean for the final 3rd stretch of the season and into the dance.
Disclaimer #3: I am in no way rooting for anyone to get lapped (as in getting lapped in the mile, not at silk)


5 presumed starters: (tbd by coach smart on 11/4)

1) Kam- forgettaboutit

2) Stevie- very low probability imo, although not impossible. He's got one of the likely suspects to slide into a premier role, Damarius Owens, handling the ball and playing an impressive role on both ends of the floor in camp, by all accounts.
After all, a backcourt of Kam and Damarius, with 3 other "bigs" is an extreme benefit from a size perspective.
Stevie does it all, however, and his defense alone keeps him in an elite roll.
I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but he's got the personality to understand if/when he's got to take a back seat so it's not unfathomable. Side note, don't forget SJ22.

3) Chase- Newly inserted starter. Practice darling and a "dude." Showed some great promise very late in the season and per Shaka battled injury all year, even the type we didn't know about, and is a valued warrior.
All in all didn't live up to the gametime hype last year, so a mystery of which Chase we get.

In that Swiss army 3 spot roll he has a chance to get nipped by a combo of things if he doesn't perform- Damarius or Tre at the 1 with Stevie at the 3 in a 3 guard set, Zaide, or something wild like Ben sliding to the 4 at the hands of Caedin or Royce, moving Jop to the 3.
We are all hoping Chase lives up to the abilities Shaka thinks will take him to that next level.

4) Jop- His ceiling is top 5 scorer in the BE. His floor is brick city and passed up by an underclassman.
His body of work is too strong as a scorer, as a pure shooter. That stroke can be so pure, and although it's hard to shake that abysmal performance against NCSt he deserves several mulligans.
Multiple poor shooting and poor defensive performances open the door for someone to slide into his spot, however.
Zaide or Royce or Owens, Ben over to the 4? Harder for him to get replaced for multiple reasons imo, including need for scoring and overall body of work, thinness of the front court.
Hopefully it doesn't happen because I've said multiple times Jop is the X Factor for the season.

5) Ben- Newly inserted starter. Biggest wildcard. Biggest question mark.
Haven't heard much about him in camp, but the scoop intelligentsia think he has NBA hopes in his bones.
I've heard Shaka and Oso compliment him on several occasions, but is that just them trying to instill confidence?
I've heard praise of Caedin all camp, but is that just trying to light a fire in Ben?
It'll be interesting to see how this one goes.
Cut from the NZ team this summer, and you haven't heard too much in terms of praise. Shoots a lot from outside, but can he shoot?
If he scuffles who replaces him, Caedin, Royce, lift the redshirt on Josh?
Move Jop to the 5?
I'm most worried about the 5 spot because of the lack of depth that you can count on at this position.

Thoughts?

A bit worried about Ben staying on thr floor and rebounding in general Dr. V.  Our prime-time guards have to be strong on the defensive glass. 

[mileskishnish72]

The 5 spot is a concern. Time will tell.

[PGsHeroes32]

There is actually 0% chance that Stevie loses his spot. 0.

Basically same for the rest really.

Shaka rides with experience.

Stevie and Chase especially can do all the little things on top of the experience that he wants.

Jop is one of our few proven shooters for on ball Kam.

We literally need a big.

They will all play. All play a lot. All year. Starters likely the whole time barring discipline.

[MUfan12]

He won't do it.

But the answer is Jop unless something clicks.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

He won't do it.

But the answer is Jop unless something clicks.

What needs to "click?" He is who he is. He will be slightly better than he was last year.

And he won't be losing his starting role.

[Herman Cain]

Stevie is MU's best defender , and one of the premier defenders in all of college basketball so he will get max minutes

[MUbiz]

My vote is Ben based on paint defense. MU was 12 or 13 points per game worse on defense with Ben on floor compared to Oso. I can see Caedin getting some run if BG can't guard.

[Its DJOver]

Barring injury our starting 5 will be the same all season. Bench rotation is subject to change based on who is playing well/matchups/etc, but no bench player will "lap" a starter.

[MUfan12]

What needs to "click?" He is who he is. He will be slightly better than he was last year.

And he won't be losing his starting role.

Right, which is why I said "He won't do it."

But since you asked.... Last week Shaka talked about Jop realizing his potential as a senior, it's not a leap to think there's another level he can get to. More decisive with the ball, more engaged on the glass, taking more pride in his defense.

[Elonsmusk]

I see it this way:  Kam and only Kam is a sure-fire 30+ minute per game player.  Zaide and Damarius likely are 20+ minute per game reserves who most likely cut into Chase and Jop minutes, which keeps both of those guys as sub 30 minute per game players.  Caedin keeps Gold below 30 minutes.  Stevie is probably in the high 20s in minutes.

I'm expecting a fun season with our defense taking a step forward (yes even with Gold manning the middle - he did improve a lot toward the end of the year.).  I don't see the offense taking a big fall off either, despite losing Tyler.  Banking on continuity of minutes, experience, culture to offset the loss of TKO and Oso.  Think we end up being around 15th in the country, 3-4 seed.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I see it this way:  Kam and only Kam is a sure-fire 30+ minute per game player.  Zaide and Damarius likely are 20+ minute per game reserves who most likely cut into Chase and Jop minutes, which keeps both of those guys as sub 30 minute per game players.  Caedin keeps Gold below 30 minutes.  Stevie is probably in the high 20s in minutes.

I'm expecting a fun season with our defense taking a step forward (yes even with Gold manning the middle - he did improve a lot toward the end of the year.).  I don't see the offense taking a big fall off either, despite losing Tyler.  Banking on continuity of minutes, experience, culture to offset the loss of TKO and Oso.  Think we end up being around 15th in the country, 3-4 seed.

I think this is a pretty good breakdown. I do think we are going to be small at times, so Ben + Caedin won't equal 40.

[Its DJOver]

We have yet to have a Freshman average 20+ mpg under Shaka. I would love for Demarius to be good enough to be the first, I'm just not sure I can make that prediction based off of coach talk, 1 open practice, and 1 scrimmage.

[brewcity77]

Unless Owens or another bench player is contributing at a lottery level off the bench (think Reed Sheppard) I don't see anyone getting passed. I actually think the Sheppard scenario where a bench player gets starter minutes (28 mpg) but continues as sixth man is more likely. Sheppard only started 5 games but averaged more minutes than all but 2 Kentucky starters.

The only other situation I can envision is injury. If someone misses 6+ games and the replacement is just lights out better during that stretch, maybe the replacement keeps the spot.

[GoldenEagles03]

No chance on any except for maybe Chase pending his health. Could see Zaide slotting into his starting spot if need be.

Jop and Stevie are 100,000,000% safe and that may be too low.

[Jay Bee]

After the 4th NC loss, there will be a shakeup

[PGsHeroes32]

After the 4th NC loss, there will be a shakeup

We are going full Bills and losing 4 straight title games?

Imagine most of the shake up will come from standard graduation by that point.

[MU82]

I see it this way:  Kam and only Kam is a sure-fire 30+ minute per game player.  Zaide and Damarius likely are 20+ minute per game reserves who most likely cut into Chase and Jop minutes, which keeps both of those guys as sub 30 minute per game players.  Caedin keeps Gold below 30 minutes.  Stevie is probably in the high 20s in minutes.

I'm expecting a fun season with our defense taking a step forward (yes even with Gold manning the middle - he did improve a lot toward the end of the year.).  I don't see the offense taking a big fall off either, despite losing Tyler.  Banking on continuity of minutes, experience, culture to offset the loss of TKO and Oso.  Think we end up being around 15th in the country, 3-4 seed.

Yup. Agree with most of this. I'm a little less sure about Owens getting 20+ minutes most games, but I still find merit in this overall analysis.

Related:

Too many folks look at a player and see what he did last season or the season before. Too many don't even consider that 1 or 2 or 4 guys could improve significantly - despite the history of exactly that during Shaka's time at Marquette.

If any of Ross, Gold, Lowery, Hamilton and/or Norman improve at anywhere near the level that so many players (obviously led by Oso and TK) did during Shaka's first 3 seasons, Marquette could be a serious threat in the Big East and in March.

Heck, I see every reason to expect it.

[Captain Quette]

I believe shaka rolls with the 5 starters enumerated above until there is clear rationale not too. For me, I think scoring could be that rationale. Last year, Tyler, Oso, and Kam could be counted on for 45 to 50 points per game. I do not see that same consistency this year. We do have guys on the bench who have potential to score more and think that will be the major factor for increased minutes for any non starters.

As to freshman help, as a 3 year mu hoops player once told me.....never trust a freshman.

[UWW2MU]

I voted for no one being lapped, but if I had to pick it would be Jop.  I've never seen Shaka do it, but if Jop is still taking plays off or looking lost at times... maybe it could be a last resort wake up call?

[DoctorV]

None of the above.

Thanks, forgot to enter this as an option.

For complete transparency this was entered after the fact, several votes had already been placed, so Ben and or Jop may have been jobbed.

Aka rigged election. My apologies

[DoctorV]

I see it this way:  Kam and only Kam is a sure-fire 30+ minute per game player.  Zaide and Damarius likely are 20+ minute per game reserves who most likely cut into Chase and Jop minutes, which keeps both of those guys as sub 30 minute per game players.  Caedin keeps Gold below 30 minutes.  Stevie is probably in the high 20s in minutes.

I'm expecting a fun season with our defense taking a step forward (yes even with Gold manning the middle - he did improve a lot toward the end of the year.).  I don't see the offense taking a big fall off either, despite losing Tyler.  Banking on continuity of minutes, experience, culture to offset the loss of TKO and Oso.  Think we end up being around 15th in the country, 3-4 seed.

Good post.

More optimistic than where I stand, especially on the offense not falling off without Tyler and Oso, but I hope you're right.

Most of the points make complete sense.

I will say that I did not quite buy into all the OMax hype but he ended up being very good, better than I expected so I was wrong. He still drove me nuts, but I'll never forget that putback last second bucket v X, that was an all timer. He was drafted, so I was clearly missing something in what I saw.

Hopefully the same holds true for Benny...
I just need him to come out game 1 and gimme of those pump fake top of the key 3s into a drive for a slam at the hoop for an and one, to go along with a 3/5 performance from 3 and all faith will again be restored.
Is that too much to ask for?

[BCHoopster]

The season starts and finishes with the play of Ben Gold.  As I have said many times he is not a center, wing shooting forward, so I can see Caedin and Ben playing together at times as Ben is to foul prone. In the scrimmage he shot poorly but wearing the mask probably did not help, shot still looks very flat. Looks bigger but he is big enough to handle the physicality of the Big East, but if he can shot around 35-40 percent from three he will become an asset.