Quite The Juxtaposition

[Viper]

The weirdos are the ones that miss amateurism

so...college ball is for pros not good enough to go...pro? Hey, you're a pro...well sort of...so get paid AND be on scholarship...attend class, of course... because you know, you're a pro... but not really.  Got it.

[dgies9156]

Brother Tower:

Your point about Jim Chones was interesting. My wife and I raised the same question yesterday and she raised an fascinating point. Yes, in my world, Mr. Chones and Maurice Lucas both would have done four years and, maybe, so too would have DWade.

But she asked, "would Marquette have been able to attract and keep the kind of roster we had back then?" It's a very legitimate question given the comparative concentration of college basketball at the time. At the time. a Kentucky, North Carolina, NC State, Florida even LSU could have made it work with lots and lots of money.

UCLA was cheating at the time. So was NC State and every other major program of the day was rumored to be as well ... except us and UNC of course.

Chones would have come and maybe we would have won at least one and maybe two more NCAAs. If Lucas had stayed, Al, might have built a mini dynasty.

[Uncle Rico]

so...college ball is for pros not good enough to go...pro? Hey, you're a pro...well sort of...so get paid AND be on scholarship...attend class, of course... because you know, you're a pro... but not really.  Got it.

Because they go to class, they're amateurs? 

Real amateurs wouldn't have scholarships, anyway.  But I doubt scoop would be as active if Marquette was Division III

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What are your thoughts on salary caps in pro sports?  Should the NCAA enact salary caps?  Is parity good or bad in professional/college sports? 

Pro athletes can make unlimited in NIL.

NCAA does have a comically low salary cap. One scholarship per athlete.

If the NCAA wants to reorganize so that the bulk of their value is being paid via their salary instead of having to rely on NIL, I'm all for it

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So you don't object to the players forming unions, negotiating minimums and many other benefits but a maximum (cap) for the guys writing the checks is Commie crap. Interesting.

I'm consistent.  The commies in this thread are the ones who pick and choose when they act like card carrying commies

[Pakuni]

So you don't object to the players forming unions, negotiating minimums and many other benefits but a maximum (cap) for the guys writing the checks is Commie crap. Interesting.

A cap negotiated as part of a compensation package via collective bargaining or a cap unilaterally imposed by management?

[rocket surgeon]

So if everything was exactly the same but they called it BPA (boosters paying athletes) instead of NIL, you would have no issues with it?

i would still like to see some kind of cap or other restrictions/regulations/rules in order to keep a somewhat of a level playing field.   

even the athletes within pro sports can't just go from team to team at will 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

If someone is allowed to market themselves (ie Paige Bueckers) it's impossible to have a 'salary cap'. 

By the way the actual NBA 'salary cap' does not include sponsorships. So it's kind of the same. 

If you wanted to lay out a plan to limit booster pay or direct pay I get it.  But these kids are now allowed to market themselves and that's not a bad thing. 

[avid1010]

even the athletes within pro sports can't just go from team to team at will

Sure they can...and they do...often times they even name the team they demand to be traded to...and that's with a long term contract.  They could all enter into 1 year contracts if they wanted. 

[rocket surgeon]

Sure they can...and they do...often times they even name the team they demand to be traded to...and that's with a long term contract.  They could all enter into 1 year contracts if they wanted.

  depends on their contract, but college athletes don't have contracts.  any and all college athlete can go anytime.  if a pro has a year to year contract, then he probably should go until he finds the right fit if any.  those with multiyear contracts have no option unless it's written in to the contract or if they demand a trade and it is met by his/her team

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

i would still like to see some kind of cap or other restrictions/regulations/rules in order to keep a somewhat of a level playing field.   

even the athletes within pro sports can't just go from team to team at will

1. There is a cap. 1 scholarship per athlete.  That's all their employer is allowed to pay them. NIL is separate and isn't capped for anyone else. Theres a unique situation in high level football and men's basketball (and a select few other spots in college athletics) where because they are so wildly underpaid by their "employer" that the market is attempting to correct that through NIL. If the NCAA reorganizes so that the employers are paying a fair wage for the value bright by the athletes,  the NIL will calm down and not need regulation.

2. Youre conflating two seperate issues. Free transfers have nothing to do with NIL.

  depends on their contract, but college athletes don't have contracts.  any and all college athlete can go anytime.  if a pro has a year to year contract, then he probably should go until he finds the right fit if any.  those with multiyear contracts have no option unless it's written in to the contract or if they demand a trade and it is met by his/her team

This isn't true.  Once an athlete suits up for a team, that is the only team they can play for that season. Sure they can leave early but pros can hold out as well.  For all intents and pulses,  they are on one year contracts. But again, this is a separate issue from NIL. If you want to set up some limits on transfers,  you can do that without impacting NIL

[The Sultan]

What are your thoughts on salary caps in pro sports?  Should the NCAA enact salary caps?  Is parity good or bad in professional/college sports? 

In my opinion parity is good, and is what generates the most interest in sports and subsequent revenue for the players.  If there were no salary caps professional football wouldn't have nearly the interest - Green Bay wouldn't stand a chance.  Major league baseball had to modify its structure to give small market teams like Milwaukee some fighting chance at success.

If you have a system that will bear out a handful of teams that are always good because they can pay the most and buy a roster, it diminishes broad interest.  Sports are physical competitions that involve on court/field strategy, yet you can have the best strategy and coaching, but if your talent (athleticism/skill) isn't good - you can't thrive.

The NCAA can't simply enact a salary cap.

And tell me one time where parity has existed in college sports. Especially college football. Yet it is hugely popular. Probably the second most popular sport in the country.

[Lennys Tap]

Sure they can...and they do...often times they even name the team they demand to be traded to...and that's with a long term contract.  They could all enter into 1 year contracts if they wanted.

This is not correct. Baseball players, for example, can sign one year contract but have to stay with their original team for 6 years before becoming free agents. Don't know the exact restrictions in other sports but there are some. Also, they can't just demand a trade. Or demand a trade to a particular team. If they have a long term contract it may include teams they can or can't be traded to or even a no trade clause.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm consistent.  The commies in this thread are the ones who pick and choose when they act like card carrying commies

So you're a commie if players form a union and a capitalist if they don't. How is that not picking and choosing when you want to be a card carrying commie?

[The Sultan]

This is not correct. Baseball players, for example, can sign one year contract but have to stay with their original team for 6 years before becoming free agents. Don't know the exact restrictions in other sports but there are some. Also, they can't just demand a trade. Or demand a trade to a particular team. If they have a long term contract it may include teams they can or can't be traded to or even a no trade clause.

Because they're unionized and subject to limits collectively bargained.

The schools don't even want them to be employees much less unionized.

[wadesworld]

what's keeping a team from allotting $30 million, $40 million...$100 million?  when is someone going to cry foul?  when people are sick and tired of seeing alabamas, georgias, ohio states, michigans every year?  time for a little more "landscaping" eyn'a?

  by worse, i mean more confusing.  usually there are boundaries, laws, rules etc.  when these cease to be or they become more and more gray, we will have "confusion"  it seems the goal lines or the heights of the rims are being changed, but no one knows what they will be game to game, season to season

There are currently 3 active college football coaches who have won a national title.

But yes. There was so much parity in college sports until we let these kids get paid. What a shame!

[Lennys Tap]

Because they're unionized and subject to limits collectively bargained.

The schools don't even want them to be employees much less unionized.

What it's "because of" is beside the point. Neither of us mentioned college athletes. Avid was talking about pro athletes and made multiple false claims about them. I answered them.

I'd ask you to read posts before replying but I know that's not gonna happen.

[Uncle Rico]

The irony in this thread, it's quite rich

[avid1010]

  depends on their contract, but college athletes don't have contracts.  any and all college athlete can go anytime.  if a pro has a year to year contract, then he probably should go until he finds the right fit if any.  those with multiyear contracts have no option unless it's written in to the contract or if they demand a trade and it is met by his/her team

Yeah...but your post was BS.  You said pro athletes can't come and go as they wish.  They sure can.  They can sign a one year contract every year.  Likely not a good choice,  but absolutely an option. 

[The Sultan]

What it's "because of" is beside the point. Neither of us mentioned college athletes. Avid was talking about pro athletes and made multiple false claims about them. I answered them.

I'd ask you to read posts before replying but I know that's not gonna happen.

I did. Sorry that you forgot the topic of discussion already.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So you're a commie if players form a union and a capitalist if they don't. How is that not picking and choosing when you want to be a card carrying commie?

1. I have no idea what you are talking about. I haven't mentioned anything about players forming a union.

2. I've never held that supporting unions makes you a commie. I am a proud capitalist who understands that there is a place for unions in a capitalist economy. It's others who cry communism when there's any sort of limit on what a person/corporation can make in the free market....except when that person is a college athlete, then we need to cap it.

[avid1010]

This is not correct. Baseball players, for example, can sign one year contract but have to stay with their original team for 6 years before becoming free agents. Don't know the exact restrictions in other sports but there are some. Also, they can't just demand a trade. Or demand a trade to a particular team. If they have a long term contract it may include teams they can or can't be traded to or even a no trade clause.

Don't follow baseball....but I bet my house that many MLB players can sign one year contracts and demand a trade anytime they freaking want.  6 year stuff would be negotiated by the union I'm sure. Love the no trade clause comment as well...my lord man...have some common sense.  A no trade clause isn't there at the teams request...

[Lennys Tap]

Don't follow baseball....but I bet my house that many MLB players can sign one year contracts and demand a trade anytime they freaking want.  6 year stuff would negotiated by the union I'm sure. Love the no trade clause comment as well...my lord man.

Please don't bet your house on that or anything else in your post. I'd hate to see you homeless.

[Lennys Tap]

I did. Sorry that you forgot the topic of discussion already.

Look, I know part of your whole stalking thing includes making comments that have zero to do with what I or the person I replied to were talking about. But I really think you should stop.

[avid1010]

Please don't bet your house on that or anything else in your post. I'd hate to see you homeless.

A google search of mlb players with 1 year contracts revealed plenty.  Nothing would ever stop a player from demanding a trade...helped the Brewers get Yelich.  And seeing as we are talking about players being able to leave anytime they want...a no trade clause (which apparently everyone in the world but you realizes) is at the request of the player not the team.