Transfer Portal vs. Recruiting, retaining , developing

[Viper]

You lose money on clients?

yes. (I lead production for a risk management firm)

[Viper]

With the scholarship change, I can see more guys buried at the end of the bench planning their departure and creating dissension.
I do not see Shaka in the portal until there are several unexpected departures at the same time.

I wonder if all 15 are utilized? Maybe bank 2 for reasons you suggest.

[avid1010]

Viper

I agree with much of your post. There is very little to be disappointed with the three years with the exception of not going far enough in the tournament. I'm all in on Shaka and will support any system of building a program that he decides to take. That said, my bar for grading the success of season will likely change, maybe as soon as this season.

IMO, we are finally going to see what Shaka run team looks like because virtually all of the minutes will be going to Shaka recruited guys and the two remaining guys are going to be part of a different look team this year. The bar for success really does come down to tournament success, especially if you want to keep fan excitement at this high of level. Average fans lose interest quickly and I do not want to see the excitement fade away.

Retain guys or use the portal it makes no difference to me. I like what Shaka is doing but it does not give him a free pass. My expectations for this year are probably higher than most on here and anxious to see what the Shaka recruited players are capable of doing.

I'm curious...if in 3-5 years Shaka continues to have top 25 teams that never get past the Sweet 16 you'd look for a change?

Your expectation upon firing Wojo was that the next coach would produce greater success than Shaka has had in the tourney?  I don't understand the "free pass" statement. 

While I believe they have underperformed in the tourney in relation to their seed, I'm also not losing sight of what I expected a new coach to be able to accomplish, and it didn't include a S16, BEAST champ or BEAST tourney champ in the first 3 years.

In this day and age, I find it more difficult than ever to judge a coach.  Tell me how much $ Shaka has to spend on players vs other top programs... 

[avid1010]

yes. (I lead production for a risk management firm)

I don't know.  Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it feels like some are holding Shaka to a standard near perfection.  No one wants to win a championship more than Shaka...his actions show that. 

I'm just thrilled he didn't take the Kentucky job.  He's far exceeded my expectations of where I felt a good hire could have the program in 3 years, and while I hope for greater success, I don't believe there is a coach that would come to MU that will bring us more success than Shaka will.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't know.  Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it feels like some are holding Shaka to a standard near perfection.

I think most Scoopers think of themselves as the Shaka (or better) of their profession. I suspect most of them are more like the Hanks, Dukiets, Deanes, and/or Wojos of their profession.

[The Sultan]

I'm curious...if in 3-5 years Shaka continues to have top 25 teams that never get past the Sweet 16 you'd look for a change?

Your expectation upon firing Wojo was that the next coach would produce greater success than Shaka has had in the tourney?  I don't understand the "free pass" statement. 

While I believe they have underperformed in the tourney in relation to their seed, I'm also not losing sight of what I expected a new coach to be able to accomplish, and it didn't include a S16, BEAST champ or BEAST tourney champ in the first 3 years.

In this day and age, I find it more difficult than ever to judge a coach.  Tell me how much $ Shaka has to spend on players vs other top programs... 

This is all well said. It feels like the criticisms are a bunch of monday morning quarterbacking. If you went back three years ago and laid out what Shaka would accomplish his first three years, everyone would have been thrilled.

[brewcity77]

This is all well said. It feels like the criticisms are a bunch of monday morning quarterbacking. If you went back three years ago and laid out what Shaka would accomplish his first three years, everyone would have been thrilled.

100%

Every team but one will end their season dreaming of more, but 3 NCAA appearances, 3 tourney wins, a Sweet 16, a Big East regular season title, 2 BET finals appearances & one win, that's spectacular success from where we were in 2021.

[MU82]

100%

Every team but one will end their season dreaming of more, but 3 NCAA appearances, 3 tourney wins, a Sweet 16, a Big East regular season title, 2 BET finals appearances & one win, that's spectacular success from where we were in 2021.

Yes, but 2021 is a low bar, and it should have little to do with measuring what's happened since.

I like to look at Shaka's accomplishments at Marquette as spectacular success compared to 9 of the other 10 Big East programs - and to most programs in the country, for that matter.

Just 2-3 years ago, the idea that Marquette or any other Big East program could be the Next Villanova was laughed at by many here. As if certain programs are preordained for success, and only they can be successful.

In just that time, Marquette has surpassed Villanova by every conceivable measure (although we obviously haven't surpassed what Nova was before Wright left).

Now it's UConn that is the standard. But from 2017-22, regardless of who was coaching them, UConn never competed for conference titles and won as many NCAAT games as Wojo did. Heck, just in 2022, Hurley's team lost as a 5-seed to New Mexico State in the first round in 2022, and his record as a major-college coach was nothing special.

I still see no reason that Marquette can't be the Big East's standardbearers one day under Shaka, and I'm not talking about 10 years from now.

[avid1010]

Yes, but 2021 is a low bar, and it should have little to do with measuring what's happened since.

I like to look at Shaka's accomplishments at Marquette as spectacular success compared to 9 of the other 10 Big East programs - and to most programs in the country, for that matter.

Just 2-3 years ago, the idea that Marquette or any other Big East program could be the Next Villanova was laughed at by many here. As if certain programs are preordained for success, and only they can be successful.

In just that time, Marquette has surpassed Villanova by every conceivable measure (although we obviously haven't surpassed what Nova was before Wright left).

Now it's UConn that is the standard. But from 2017-22, regardless of who was coaching them, UConn never competed for conference titles and won as many NCAAT games as Wojo did. Heck, just in 2022, Hurley's team lost as a 5-seed to New Mexico State in the first round in 2022, and his record as a major-college coach was nothing special.

I still see no reason that Marquette can't be the Big East's standardbearers one day under Shaka, and I'm not talking about 10 years from now.

How much does MU have to spend on players vs UCONN?

[Scoop Snoop]

I don't know.  Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it feels like some are holding Shaka to a standard near perfection.  No one wants to win a championship more than Shaka...his actions show that. 

I'm just thrilled he didn't take the Kentucky job.  He's far exceeded my expectations of where I felt a good hire could have the program in 3 years, and while I hope for greater success, I don't believe there is a coach that would come to MU that will bring us more success than Shaka will.

Great post avid. It seems like some scoopers are demanding a natty pretty damn soon. Or what? Call for Shaka to be fired if he does not fulfill their expectations on their schedule? Shaka has clearly taken a patient, rather long term approach with player development and retention. I think we will win a natty with him as our coach. Meanwhile, I am going to enjoy all of our games.

[Goose]

I cannot think of anything that Shaka could do that would diminish my respect and appreciation for what he has done for the program and the university. If in five years they have not advanced past a S16 I will be very disappointed, but still strongly in his camp. My biggest interest for the program is to see the excitement level remain high because MU benefits from that exposure.

IMO, I have seen more very good to great basketball over the past two years than any time since the 1970's and I expect we will see more in the upcoming years. Shaka created excitement around the program extremely quickly and I want that to remain. To do so, I firmly believe it needs more success in March. Again, I firmly believe the excitement continues this year and this team may end up being the biggest surprise of the Shaka tenure at MU.

[Viper]

I cannot think of anything that Shaka could do that would diminish my respect and appreciation for what he has done for the program and the university. If in five years they have not advanced past a S16 I will be very disappointed, but still strongly in his camp. My biggest interest for the program is to see the excitement level remain high because MU benefits from that exposure.

IMO, I have seen more very good to great basketball over the past two years than any time since the 1970's and I expect we will see more in the upcoming years. Shaka created excitement around the program extremely quickly and I want that to remain. To do so, I firmly believe it needs more success in March. Again, I firmly believe the excitement continues this year and this team may end up being the biggest surprise of the Shaka tenure at MU.

...I agree. And the bonus on this upcoming season will be kicking RED's arse.

[Scoop Snoop]

I cannot think of anything that Shaka could do that would diminish my respect and appreciation for what he has done for the program and the university. If in five years they have not advanced past a S16 I will be very disappointed, but still strongly in his camp. My biggest interest for the program is to see the excitement level remain high because MU benefits from that exposure.

IMO, I have seen more very good to great basketball over the past two years than any time since the 1970's and I expect we will see more in the upcoming years. Shaka created excitement around the program extremely quickly and I want that to remain. To do so, I firmly believe it needs more success in March. Again, I firmly believe the excitement continues this year and this team may end up being the biggest surprise of the Shaka tenure at MU.

Goose, if you think I was referring to you. I assure you that you are mistaken. No question that we need to advance beyond the SS, but one scooper (who I will leave unnamed to avoid getting him wound up) seems to focus on Hurley, as if Shaka should be copying Hurley's playbook. Shaka can get a natty without being Hurley 2.0. When? Who knows.

[Goose]

Snoop

I did not think you referring to me. I wanted to clarify my remarks to some degree. We are lucky to have him as a coach.

[willie warrior]

I don't know.  Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it feels like some are holding Shaka to a standard near perfection.  No one wants to win a championship more than Shaka...his actions show that. 

I'm just thrilled he didn't take the Kentucky job.  He's far exceeded my expectations of where I felt a good hire could have the program in 3 years, and while I hope for greater success, I don't believe there is a coach that would come to MU that will bring us more success than Shaka will.

While I agree that Shaka wants to win a natty (most coaches do), Hurley sure is distancing himself far from Shaka in that category. Pretty quickly Shaka needs to pick up the lost ground.

[The Sultan]

While I agree that Shaka wants to win a natty (most coaches do), Hurley sure is distancing himself far from Shaka in that category. Pretty quickly Shaka needs to pick up the lost ground.

Or what?  Maybe Hurley is just a better coach.

[Uncle Rico]

While I agree that Shaka wants to win a natty (most coaches do), Hurley sure is distancing himself far from Shaka in that category. Pretty quickly Shaka needs to pick up the lost ground.

You think most coaches want to win a national title?  I don't.  College coaches are hired to help shepherd young men and women towards their college degrees and develop the leaders of tomorrow.

[Goose]

There are a small group of coaches that truly believe their program is capable to win a NC. There are many coaches hoping to catch a hot streak in March/April but those guys are hoping to get hot. I think two years ago Shaka started to believe in late January that they could win it all if they were hot at the right time. Last season he probably believed they were good enough to make a serious run at it.

[sodakmu87]

I rarely post something but I do think I have something to add here.  I continue to be impressed by the intellect and passion for college basketball and MU basketball by the big guns who post their views here.  My angle is this: I look at college basketball a lot like surgery.  You go into a case with the best CT report and ultrasound read by a great radiologist and once you open the abdomen you get handed a rare 1/10000 cancer, buddy.  Now what are you gonna do?  Get pissed and complain?  Yell at the nurses like those TV doctors do?  No.  Do your best for the patient and be an instrument of peace and smile and add that to your list of what you know.  Think about this.  All the best fascinating analytics had MU winning its last game.  Dammit MU could not buy a three pointer.  Is that Shaka's fault?  Did he not prepare his team?  Hell no.  We all know that good coaching makes a difference in the chances for success, but that is the joy of watching college basketball!  It's a controlled randomness.  From a former Biology major, is that not life?  I do really agree with the last post before this one.  A good coach will know to coach life lessons from the game because non NBA players can still change the world for good from an MU experience.

[avid1010]

While I agree that Shaka wants to win a natty (most coaches do), Hurley sure is distancing himself far from Shaka in that category. Pretty quickly Shaka needs to pick up the lost ground.

Or what?

[Scoop Snoop]

I rarely post something but I do think I have something to add here.  I continue to be impressed by the intellect and passion for college basketball and MU basketball by the big guns who post their views here.  My angle is this: I look at college basketball a lot like surgery.  You go into a case with the best CT report and ultrasound read by a great radiologist and once you open the abdomen you get handed a rare 1/10000 cancer, buddy.  Now what are you gonna do?  Get pissed and complain?  Yell at the nurses like those TV doctors do?  No.  Do your best for the patient and be an instrument of peace and smile and add that to your list of what you know.  Think about this.  All the best fascinating analytics had MU winning its last game.  Dammit MU could not buy a three pointer.  Is that Shaka's fault?  Did he not prepare his team?  Hell no.  We all know that good coaching makes a difference in the chances for success, but that is the joy of watching college basketball!  It's a controlled randomness.  From a former Biology major, is that not life?  I do really agree with the last post before this one.  A good coach will know to coach life lessons from the game because non NBA players can still change the world for good from an MU experience.

Love this post along with the analogy to unwelcome surprises in surgery. A surgeon who I know personally once told me that what marked a really good surgeon was when all Hell breaks loose in the middle of surgery (heart attack, stroke, massive hemorrhaging, or the unexpected cancer you mentioned, etc.), does the surgeon know what to do and in what order?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

While I agree that Shaka wants to win a natty (most coaches do), Hurley sure is distancing himself far from Shaka in that category. Pretty quickly Shaka needs to pick up the lost ground.

Like a gangrenous rooster, your words peck unceasingly as our brains, Dung Willie

[MU82]

How much does MU have to spend on players vs UCONN?

I don't know, do you?

But if I had to give an answer based on what I've read on Scoop and elsewhere, it would be: MU has enough to compete at a very high level.

[79Warrior]

I don't know, do you?

But if I had to give an answer based on what I've read on Scoop and elsewhere, it would be: MU has enough to compete at a very high level.

Read the Athletic article on NIL budgets. very interesting.

[MUbiz]

Read the Athletic article on NIL budgets. very interesting.

Do you have a link for said article please?