Transfer Portal vs. Recruiting, retaining , developing

[BCHoopster]

This again? Did you watch the Colorado game?

Jop is an average player, has good games and some pretty bad ones.  Hope the upcoming year he is more consistent. If MU wants to be really good this year, he needs to improve. 

[avid1010]

MU can play the game as good as anybody, maybe not the 2M for one player, but money for all 13 players. Kam stayed, why, because he loves MU, yes, but he loves being paid well.  Kolek and Oso did well, if you play well, the underclassmen will get there share.  The 3 freshman got a nice bump.  Did Shaka make a mistake, not signing a portal player, I say yes. Remember, a quality sub might have put Jop on the bench, watching the NCSt game, Jop belonged on the bench.

We can't begin to understand what Shaka using the portal would look like.  If he did, who would leave, who wouldn't come, etc...  I believe Shaka's approach has been wildly successful, and I beleieve that he knows more about the pros and cons of using the portal than you do. 

That said, and I know I'm likely in the minority, I have immensely enjoyed watching players come to MU and grow over many years.  The success they have had makes watching every game meaningful and fun.  Watching kids like Jop come in and transform their work ethic, bodies and games it something portal schools don't get to see.  Nor do they get to see the personalities of the kids and the academic success MU players have.  I hope Shaka keeps doing what he's doing, and eventually one of these teams will break through for a deep run in March.  Until then I'm more than happy watching Big East champ caliber teams, with great kids who developed at MU, compete at an extremely high level.

[tower912]

Agreed

[MU82]

Jop is an average player, has good games and some pretty bad ones.

That describes most major-conference starters, including those on quite a few (if not most) Final Four teams.

We don't beat Colorado - don't even get to play NC State - without Jop. And yes, then he was really bad against NC State, as were most of his teammates.

Colorado had two first-round draft picks and a second-rounder and didn't even make the Sweet 16. They could have used Jop in that game.

[rgoode57]

It's easy to look at what Hurley has done at UConn and think Shaka should be doing the same thing at MU. But, the two situations are different, the two men are different, etc. Other coaches are doing the same thing Hurley is doing and not having nearly as much success.  Truth is, Hurley is a hell of a coach. I have no problem with Shaka's approach. Fact is, I think it fun to watch freshmen come in and see how they develop over time. For instance, Tyler was just so-so his soph year, but he sure did improve over his last two years. Sean Jones was showing real progress before he got hurt last year. Ben Gold improved a lot on defense last year. This progress of players is very interesting and fun to see. I think Shaka probably knows what he's doing.

[Uncle Rico]

Wouldn't mind an aircraft carrier from the portal

[tower912]

Clark and Hamilton are in the fold.   Be patient and let them develop.

[bilsu]

It will be interesting to see how much Norman, Lowery and Amadou improve this year.

[Elonsmusk]

We can't begin to understand what Shaka using the portal would look like.  If he did, who would leave, who wouldn't come, etc...  I believe Shaka's approach has been wildly successful, and I beleieve that he knows more about the pros and cons of using the portal than you do. 

That said, and I know I'm likely in the minority, I have immensely enjoyed watching players come to MU and grow over many years.  The success they have had makes watching every game meaningful and fun.  Watching kids like Jop come in and transform their work ethic, bodies and games it something portal schools don't get to see.  Nor do they get to see the personalities of the kids and the academic success MU players have.  I hope Shaka keeps doing what he's doing, and eventually one of these teams will break through for a deep run in March.  Until then I'm more than happy watching Big East champ caliber teams, with great kids who developed at MU, compete at an extremely high level.

I agree with this analysis.

[MU82]

It will be interesting to see how much Norman, Lowery and Amadou improve this year.

It will be interesting to see your reaction regardless of how much or little each improves.

[Billy Hoyle]

It's easy to look at what Hurley has done at UConn and think Shaka should be doing the same thing at MU. But, the two situations are different, the two men are different, etc. Other coaches are doing the same thing Hurley is doing and not having nearly as much success.  Truth is, Hurley is a hell of a coach. I have no problem with Shaka's approach. Fact is, I think it fun to watch freshmen come in and see how they develop over time. For instance, Tyler was just so-so his soph year, but he sure did improve over his last two years. Sean Jones was showing real progress before he got hurt last year. Ben Gold improved a lot on defense last year. This progress of players is very interesting and fun to see. I think Shaka probably knows what he's doing.

It's also nice to see our guys and their dedication to our university. They're not bouncing around like mercenaries, they're making a commitment to MU as a program and institution, developing pride and playing for the name on the front of the jersey.

Thinking back to my time at MU, 94-98, we had four guys transfer out (Littles, McCall, Mason, and Minor); three of whom were shown the door for non-hoops reasons. We had just two transfers in that I can remember (West and Barone). Maybe I'm living in the past but I love the roster stability and seeing guys develop.

[muwarrior69]

It's easy to look at what Hurley has done at UConn and think Shaka should be doing the same thing at MU. But, the two situations are different, the two men are different, etc. Other coaches are doing the same thing Hurley is doing and not having nearly as much success.  Truth is, Hurley is a hell of a coach. I have no problem with Shaka's approach. Fact is, I think it fun to watch freshmen come in and see how they develop over time. For instance, Tyler was just so-so his soph year, but he sure did improve over his last two years. Sean Jones was showing real progress before he got hurt last year. Ben Gold improved a lot on defense last year. This progress of players is very interesting and fun to see. I think Shaka probably knows what he's doing.

I don't know of any coach that is having the success that coach Hurly is having.

[mileskishnish72]

I have immensely enjoyed watching players come to MU and grow over many years.  The success they have had makes watching every game meaningful and fun.  Watching kids like Jop come in and transform their work ethic, bodies and games it something portal schools don't get to see.  Nor do they get to see the personalities of the kids and the academic success MU players have.  I hope Shaka keeps doing what he's doing, and eventually one of these teams will break through for a deep run in March.  Until then I'm more than happy watching Big East champ caliber teams, with great kids who developed at MU, compete at an extremely high level.

100% agree. It's great to watch kids develop. Of course, in college, you've only got them for a few years and there is naturally more turnover. But in the same vein,
I've got to say that I enjoy pro sports much less than in previous years, largely because in the "old days" some players would spend their entire careers with the same team. You really got to know the players well over a lengthy period of time. Now, with chasing the money and switching teams willy-nilly, a fan doesn't get that same feeling of continuity. I guess some folks like that, but my interest has declined significantly.

[lawdog77]

It will be interesting to see your reaction regardless of how much or little each improves.

I wouldn't call it "interesting"

[MuMark]

We can't begin to understand what Shaka using the portal would look like.  If he did, who would leave, who wouldn't come, etc...  I believe Shaka's approach has been wildly successful, and I beleieve that he knows more about the pros and cons of using the portal than you do. 

That said, and I know I'm likely in the minority, I have immensely enjoyed watching players come to MU and grow over many years.  The success they have had makes watching every game meaningful and fun.  Watching kids like Jop come in and transform their work ethic, bodies and games it something portal schools don't get to see.  Nor do they get to see the personalities of the kids and the academic success MU players have.  I hope Shaka keeps doing what he's doing, and eventually one of these teams will break through for a deep run in March.  Until then I'm more than happy watching Big East champ caliber teams, with great kids who developed at MU, compete at an extremely high level.

I'm not so sure you're in the minority

[Herman Cain]

One of the contributing factors to the success of Shaka's internally building talent system is that the staff has not made many talent selection errors .

So far Shaka has had 4 classes , year 0 1, 2 and 3 in those 4 classes only  3 players have left . One of was identified as a clear project who didn't  work out at the high major level (Keeyan), EE had an injury that degraded his ability to compete as did Wrightsil.

So now MU has balanced classes with legitimate Big East level talent. If MU can keep stocking a talent pool of 4 stars ,and coach them up ,the program will continue to be upper half of league . Every once in a while pick up a 5 star or have some superior internal development players who out perform such that they are the best player on thr floor (TyKo, Kam etc), MU can be in The National Conversation. 

[We R Final Four]

One of the contributing factors to the success of Shaka's internally building talent system is that the staff has not made many talent selection errors .

So far Shaka has had 4 classes , year 0 1, 2 and 3 in those 4 classes only  3 players have left . One of was identified as a clear project who didn't  work out at the high major level (Keeyan), EE had an injury that degraded his ability to compete as did Wrightsil.

So now MU has balanced classes with legitimate Big East level talent. If MU can keep stocking a talent pool of 4 stars ,and coach them up ,the program will continue to be upper half of league . Every once in a while pick up a 5 star or have some superior internal development players who out perform such that they are the best player on thr floor (TyKo, Kam etc), MU can be in The National Conversation.

I would say more likely that we see superior talent emerge from a developing player on the team.......as opposed to picking up a 5 star commitment.

[tower912]

Marquette is in the national conversation.

Stop thinking of MU as a lucky underdog.
Stop thinking MU needs to be afraid.
Stop thinking that MU is being disrespected.
Stop thinking MU needs the portal to compete.

A big East championship and tourney championship. 
Back to back 2 seeds. 
Multiple players drafted by the NBA.
56-17 the last two seasons.
Getting old and staying old
Clear succession plans at every position.
No transfers in, no transfers out.

Seriously, this is what other programs dream of.   Enjoy it.

[Pepe Sylvia]

Marquette is in the national conversation.

Stop thinking of MU as a lucky underdog.
Stop thinking MU needs to be afraid.
Stop thinking that MU is being disrespected.
Stop thinking MU needs the portal to compete.

A big East championship and tourney championship. 
Back to back 2 seeds. 
Multiple players drafted by the NBA.
56-17 the last two seasons.
Getting old and staying old
Clear succession plans at every position.
No transfers in, no transfers out.

Seriously, this is what other programs dream of.   Enjoy it.

Yeah it's dope. I don't think I've ever been checking scoop as often in the summer as I have the last 2 years. Used to think my favorite team was a tie between Mu and the Vikings, but I ain't really checked on the vikes this summer and we just drafted a new QB.

[Jay Bee]

Yeah it's dope. I don't think I've ever been checking scoop as often in the summer as I have the last 2 years. Used to think my favorite team was a tie between Mu and the Vikings, but I ain't really checked on the vikes this summer and we just drafted a new QB.

Our FB team's headlines have not been great the past couple of weeks tbh. #Skol

[burger]

I don't know of any coach that is having the success that coach Hurly is having.

Hurley also has an assistant coach that is tasked with portal,  team configuration (coming and goings).  Almost a general manager but below Hurley.   AKA.   He does not have the time to micro-manage this so he off-loads and then after the options are given to him.   Makes the final call......

[The Sultan]

Hurley also has an assistant coach that is tasked with portal,  team configuration (coming and goings).  Almost a general manager but below Hurley.   AKA.   He does not have the time to micro-manage this so he off-loads and then after the options are given to him.   Makes the final call......

I'm sure all of these functions are covered on the Marquette coaching staff.

[tower912]

Hurley also has an assistant coach that is tasked with portal,  team configuration (coming and goings).  Almost a general manager but below Hurley.   AKA.   He does not have the time to micro-manage this so he off-loads and then after the options are given to him.   Makes the final call......

That is how he can get by on less money.

[Viper]

Marquette is in the national conversation.

Stop thinking of MU as a lucky underdog.
Stop thinking MU needs to be afraid.
Stop thinking that MU is being disrespected.
Stop thinking MU needs the portal to compete.

A big East championship and tourney championship. 
Back to back 2 seeds. 
Multiple players drafted by the NBA.
56-17 the last two seasons.
Getting old and staying old
Clear succession plans at every position.
No transfers in, no transfers out.

Seriously, this is what other programs dream of.   Enjoy it.

...sounds like an order. Enjoy it, damn it.! Rather, are you rationalizing? Which we all do. To say stop thinking of MU as a lucky underdog seems to imply you've felt MU has been a lucky underdog. Not attempting to be snarky, but 56-17...So what? No transfers out. Maybe not necessarily a good thing. 2-seeds? Great!! I definitely applaud that success. The spotlight on the program has been fantastic. But...MU didn't do much with those back2back high seedings. National championship or bust, every year, my friend. It's been 47 yrs, but shouldn't expectations be nothing less? I work in sales so my analogy is that of coming close to annual sales goals, or blowing the doors off those annual sales goals. Clear succession plan at every position? Ok, sure...if players are good. Otherwise, maybe not a good thing. Other programs emulating MU?...DePaul and Gtown come to mind...so, yes, I'll agree with that.

Edit: removed politics

[The Sultan]

The goal of the program every year should be a national championship.

My goals for them aren't that high. The last thing I need is constant disappointment from my sports fandom.