Transfer Portal vs. Recruiting, retaining , developing

[Big Papi]

The portal and what it is today, is not what was a year ago and will be different next year. 

Like Brew said, with covid years gone, next year will be interesting.

Then we will see what happens after that with the continued lawsuits out there and if collegiate athletes end up becoming employees.  That might stabalize what is currently the wild wild west.

[Big Papi]

Big Papi, do you see the Pitino, Calipari, Sean Miller, Holtmann model as sustainable?

I do not but that is not what I am asking Shaka to do.  I think the UConn method works just fine where you bring in 1-2 targeted portal players that will elevate your team and keep it at a high level.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Again, if sending messages hurts a player's feeling, then they should move on.  They have to earn the starting spots based on performance on the court, not just sitting on the bench awaiting it. All the major programs recruit/transfer portal players and their feelings/messages are not a concern.  This is not elementary school, this is a major college basketball program, where expectations are or were extremely high the past two years, with two players who about to be drafted into the NBA. There are many others on this board who felt the same way about replacing Omax with a portal guy.  Maybe Joplin happy/OK with  coming off bench and continuing his performance, yes.  But, it didn't happen and it is in the past, and we'll never know what difference it would have made.

Do you not accept the fact that Shaka believed Jop moving into the starters role was also best for the team vs. him just not wanting to hurt his feelings?

[nyg]

Or the sharks start swimming in our waters and throw money out that anyone would be a fool to say no to and then they leave.

I don't think Shaka's strategy is sustainable.  Furthermore, I feel that we had a great window of opportunity to be serious national title contenders.  I am with nyg in that we should have probably added a portal player last year to replace Omax and this year to fill in at pg, 3-point shooter or a big.  I believe we wasted a chance last year and are going to waste it again this year.

Well, an agreement......  Like I said previously, the two spots each year were taken by two players who redshirted.  But it will be this year to see what happens.  #2 seed losing in first round and #2 seed with two NBA draftees not making Elite 8 and losing to a #14 seed in consecutive years.  Not good.  This year, well we will see and have fun with it. 

Opinions are just that, opinions.  The facts are clear, but will Shaka change his philosophy next year with some really major holes to fill. 

[Uncle Rico]

Well, an agreement......  Like I said previously, the two spots each year were taken by two players who redshirted.  But it will be this year to see what happens.  #2 seed losing in first round and #2 seed with two NBA draftees not making Elite 8 and losing to a #14 seed in consecutive years.  Not good.  This year, well we will see and have fun with it. 

Opinions are just that, opinions.  The facts are clear, but will Shaka change his philosophy next year with some really major holes to fill.

What

[Its DJOver]

Wow, having the opinion that the last two years were "not good" must have missed the previous decade.

[BM1090]

Wow, having the opinion that the last two years were "not good" must have missed the previous decade.

And also listed a few things that didn't happen.

We didn't lose in the first round as a 2 seed either year. We lost to a 7 seed in the second round and an 11 seed in the S16. Not to a 14 either year.

NC State was the only disappointment for me the last two years, and that was less about the loss and more because of how we played.

[tower912]

NYG, you got some facts wrong. 

Anyway, my opinion is that, barring departures, MU will have fewer questions a season from now than they have now.   Yes, I am optimistic about development.

[MUfan12]

I do not but that is not what I am asking Shaka to do.  I think the UConn method works just fine where you bring in 1-2 targeted portal players that will elevate your team and keep it at a high level.

UConn can use the "UConn method" because they have elite resources and won two titles. They can basically select.

It's a lot different animal for MU. Especially when starting minutes aren't close to guaranteed.

[nyg]

Sorry, should have left last sentence out. My bad, DJO had me going today which I don't usually do.  I'll go back to just monitoring post mode now.....

[The Lens]

I don't think what we're seeing will sustain itself. First, I'm sure that the announced dollar figures players are getting are not real. When you hear Great Osobor is making $2M, I'm guessing that's the best case scenario if he hits every possible parameter of his contracts. And as results don't measure up to dollar spent, I don't think you'll see boosters continue to pour this much in. Look at Villanova, who reportedly spent big last year, but have been comparatively quiet this year, not adding nearly the perceived level of talent or production. I am guessing that's a booster signal saying they aren't going to shell out big bucks for an NIT team. As more and more boosters see money being spent to produce mediocre results (which will be the case for most schools as only 16/year make the second weekend and 4 make the Final Four, no matter how much is spent) I'm guessing the excitement to splash big bucks for menial reward will wear off.

You can't put your name on a small forward that leads you to the Round of 32, but your name on a weight room is there forever.  Boosters eventually will return to wanting to see something tangible for their spend.

[tower912]

Sorry, should have left last sentence out. My bad, DJO had me going today which I don't usually do.  I'll go back to just monitoring post mode now.....

Why?  So far the discussions have been been civil.

[milwaukee ex-pat]

Wow, having the opinion that the last two years were "not good" must have missed the previous decade.

Yep this.  UCONN succeeded so it looks like grabbing an elite player like Cam Spencer is a no-brainer but give Hurley his due - Nova got a number of what appeared to be elite players and did not have a successful season.  UCONN isn't great because they used the portal - its just a great program and coach period.

My take: Shaka's system looks sustainable in terms of Marquette will consistently have 10-11 high major players on the roster every year.  The bounce of the ball, other things that can happen will mean not every year is a deep tourney run but I think its a safe bet this system will literally have them competing for a top 4 seed every year, top 2 as often as not possibly.  Even with misses they should generally have at least 9 high major, experienced players ready for action and thats enough for Shaka and staff to win.

Its sustainable because he is avoiding using bags to get players INTO the program - and that dynamic shouldn't change.  Great topic btw.

[brewcity77]

I do not but that is not what I am asking Shaka to do.  I think the UConn method works just fine where you bring in 1-2 targeted portal players that will elevate your team and keep it at a high level.

It's hard to criticize Hurley right now, he's pulled every string perfectly the past two years, but after next year the Joey Calcaterra/Cam Spencer types won't exist. It's UConn, so maybe Hurley will just get someone else, but even for them the pool will be smaller.

[We R Final Four]

I'll stick with my opinion on Gold.  He'll be in foul trouble within the first eight minutes.  But, that's a subject for a different thread. 

Bringing in a player to take Omax's spot, maybe would have Joplin to continue to coming off the bench and being a great contributor as a sixth man again.  Again, it's a culture, culture thing and to worry about hurting a player's feelings as opposed to what is best for the team is Shaka's decision then. He is the coach and again I'll stay with my opinion on the non portal replacement.

If Shaka went and got a one year rental to replace OMax, and not allow Jop the opportunity to start as the returning 6th MOY, then a year later.....that transfer would most likely be gone and so would Jop. At that point, Shaka would be looking to the portal once again. He doesn't want to play that game. And I for one applaud it.
Shaka puts a lot of time and energy into HS recruits. Where I think he could improve is looking for players who he didnt get the first time around, but become available after a year.
For example, if a Kon type player goes to his first choice and it doesn't work out after a year.....based on the relationships.....Shaka could look at those type of players.

[We R Final Four]

Opinions are just that, opinions.  The facts are clear, but will Shaka change his philosophy next year with some really major holes to fill.

If that is a question, the answer is no.

[Lennys Tap]

It's hard to criticize Hurley right now, he's pulled every string perfectly the past two years, but after next year the Joey Calcaterra/Cam Spencer types won't exist. It's UConn, so maybe Hurley will just get someone else, but even for them the pool will be smaller.

LOL. He's won two straight National Championships and 12 straight NCAA tournament games, all by double digits. So yeah, it's kinda hard to criticize Hurley right now. His teams play as hard and as unselfishly as anyone's. He's not overly relying on the portal but he's not ignoring either. So far he's been the gold standard.

[The Sultan]

Right. But there are multiple ways to build teams, and coaches should use the method that they feel is best for them to find success. Shaka's been very successful at Marquette. Why don't we trust the guy instead of comparing him to someone else?

[MU82]

Finally, Shaka isn't dumb.  He's selling something at the moment and sees a market imbalance.  This is fluid.  While I appreciate what he's selling, he's no dummy and will certainly utilize the portal when need be.  He's simply not doing it at the cost of one of his guys losing minutes or his spot on the depth chart.  Willing to bet a large chunk of the coaches across the country wish they were doing the same.

Things change fast.  At this moment, embrace his philosophy but don't get too attached because it's liable to change

This is where I am, too.

So far, the Shaka system has worked pretty darn well. We're still very early in the portal/NIL era. It's a fun Scoopy joke, but it really IS too early to come to any kind of conclusion yet.

Right now, knowing what we know and not being able to predict the future, it comes down to this: Do we trust Shaka or not when it comes to building a roster and a program? At this point, he's given me only reasons to say, yes, I trust him.

[willie warrior]

UConn can use the "UConn method" because they have elite resources and won two titles. They can basically select.

It's a lot different animal for MU. Especially when starting minutes aren't close to guaranteed.

There is not a good excuse why MU cannot keep with UCONN. What "elite resources does UCONN have that MU does not?

[MUfan12]

There is not a good excuse why MU cannot keep with UCONN. What "elite resources does UCONN have that MU does not?

UConn spends $8M more/year on mens basketball, has higher NIL potential, and has won 6 titles in 25 years.

Besides that we're right there with them.

[brewcity77]

UConn spends $8M more/year on mens basketball, has higher NIL potential, and has won 6 titles in 25 years.

Besides that we're right there with them.

Resources are one thing, but Hurley has really made smart choices as well. He's somewhat a hybrid of Shaka and what everyone else is doing. Yes, they had key transfers last year (Newton, Calcaterra) but it was Sanogo, Jackson, and Hawkins, all players recruited out of high school that grew in the system, and (per 247) all were outside the top-50, so not the 5-star kids. This past year, it was much the same. They had the one instant impact transfer in Spencer, but Clingan and Karaban were again sub-50 guys who they developed, and even the rest of their core (Diarra, Newton) were in the system multiple years. Castle was a game-changer, but by and large their model is to build with players who grow in the system for 2-3 years, then sprinkling in 1-2 guys that fill holes.

The real questions going forward for them are if guys like Ball, Johnson, and Stewart can take that step up while Mahaney and Reed are the instant impact fill-ins. On paper, this looks like their worst roster of the past three years, but considering the magic dust Hurley has had, it's hard not to just pencil them into the top-5 until proven otherwise.

[Lennys Tap]

Right. But there are multiple ways to build teams, and coaches should use the method that they feel is best for them to find success. Shaka's been very successful at Marquette. Why don't we trust the guy instead of comparing him to someone else?

Hey, I love Shaka and have been one of his biggest supporters from the jump. He's done an outstanding job. But he's in a competitive business, so comparisons to other successful coaches is inevitable. Especially when one in his own conference separates himself from the pack the way Hurley has.

[The Sultan]

Hey, I love Shaka and have been one of his biggest supporters from the jump. He's done an outstanding job. But he's in a competitive business, so comparisons to other successful coaches is inevitable. Especially when one in his own conference separates himself from the pack the way Hurley has.

No I know. I just am saying that what works for one may not work for another.

[Shooter McGavin]

Roster continuity in college hoops is a great thing.  Stacking and sustaining success is a lot easier when you can allow players to get older on your roster.  Based on our small sample size, it appears this staff can identify and maximize talent.  OMax got drafted and it appears TKO and Oso are about to get drafted.  Those players also won a lot of games.

The portal is one-and-done on steroids.  There will be successes where rosters are built this way.  I wouldn't go that way, however.  Filling 3-4 spots yearly due to lost talent is yeoman's work.  Rebuilding chemistry and finding the right fits on the fly isn't easy.  I'd rather fill 1-2 spots this way based on early departures or a recruiting miss.

A couple of things will happen.  Eventually, the portal will be regulated and compensation for players will be tied into scholarships/contracts at specific schools.  The Covid extra year is ending as well.  Rosters and filling them will be different because of it.

Finally, Shaka isn't dumb.  He's selling something at the moment and sees a market imbalance.  This is fluid.  While I appreciate what he's selling, he's no dummy and will certainly utilize the portal when need be.  He's simply not doing it at the cost of one of his guys losing minutes or his spot on the depth chart.  Willing to bet a large chunk of the coaches across the country wish they were doing the same.

Things change fast.  At this moment, embrace his philosophy but don't get too attached because it's liable to change

Well said.