How important is the 2nd weekend to you?

[Dr. Blackheart]

How about we just enjoy the prospect for multiple low seeds rather than creating or defending a scenario where we judge it a failure

Failure and disappointment (the poll) are two different things. I don't consider the Ditka Bears failures but the fact they could never repeat was a major disappointment. Wojo was a failure while Shaka excels. I expect victory. 

[Pakuni]

Guthridge wasn't fired.

Neither was Oliver Purnell or Bruce Weber.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Fine. He was presented his retirement package at the door.

Neither was Oliver Purnell or Bruce Weber.

Guthridge left at the end of June. If it was actually a firing in everything but the name, then they did it very poorly given the timing. And it being so late was why Roy Williams turned it down and they went with Matt Doherty instead.

My recollection is that he saw the writing on the wall and left.

[CTWarrior]

I don't understand this. If in 2022, the chance of making the round of 32 was about 25%, how could he underperform seed expectations?

I assume it is because we lost, which means we won 0 games when we were expected to win 0.25.   So we underperformed for that season.  Looking at it to do a year by year analysis like that is probably not a good idea, since if you were in that situation 4 times and won 1 game, you would have been exactly at expectation but 1 - 3 by that metric (one year you did .75 better and the other three years you did .25 worse).

If you just looked at it by expectation vs speed, the over performing vs underperforming would come out more reasonably.  At any rate, I don't think anyone denies Shaka has underperformed in the NCAAs since he left VCU and MU has too since Buzz left.

[Mu8891]

Right

Shaka AND MU have way underperformed for 10 years in the
NCAAT.   It HAS to be this year ... if not now , when ??!

[Scoop Snoop]

Right

Shaka AND MU have way underperformed for 10 years in the
NCAAT.   It HAS to be this year ... if not now , when ??!

(In a booming, dramatic voice) And if not us, who?

[tower912]

Right

Shaka AND MU have way underperformed for 10 years in the
NCAAT.   It HAS to be this year ... if not now , when ??!

Whenever.

[Newsdreams]

Ready for Wardle

[4everwarriors]

Y'all are delusional with nothin' better to do than tryin' to get a rise outta folks here. Shaka is the best coach and steward of the men's basketball program at MU since Al, bar none. Sit back and enjoy the view. We are in a most enviable position with Smart drivin' the bus. BTW, there is not, nor should there be, any heat on his ass, regardless of how this season ends up, aina?

[Galway Eagle]

Y'all are delusional with nothin' better to do than tryin' to get a rise outta folks here. Shaka is the best coach and steward of the men's basketball program at MU since Al, bar none. Sit back and enjoy the view. We are in a most enviable position with Smart drivin' the bus. BTW, there is not, nor should there be, any heat on his ass, regardless of how this season ends up, aina?

I think you'll turn out to be correct long term but through just shy of 3 years I think Buzz is still ahead. If Shaka had to retire or leave today id rank it buzz, shaka, Crean, O'Neil, Raymonds, Wojo, deane, majerus, dukiet.

Shaka's trajectory is certainly on pace to be the best at MU sans Al (including Hickey and Nagle) but if we equate last year and this to 2012 & 2013 then it's slightly better in regular season but short of the March success (tbd this year), if equate 2022 with 2011 it's roughly the same maybe slightly better regular season but short march success.  His seat is definitely not warm in the slightest and his program seems 1000x more stable than Buzz's though.

[TheREALwrk]

I think Shaka has earned an extremely long leash at this university - not because of the winning but because he keeps this program clean. Just look back at the Wojo years - you can tell the administration valued that he kept the program clean. Especially after the last few Buzz years/scandals.

[Pakuni]

I think you'll turn out to be correct long term but through just shy of 3 years I think Buzz is still ahead. If Shaka had to retire or leave today id rank it buzz, shaka, Crean, O'Neil, Raymonds, Wojo, deane, majerus, dukiet.

Not sure why, but Crean seems way underappreciated around here (IMO).
He took over a program very much headed in the wrong direction, on a far worse trajectory than we were headed under Wojo.
He recruited the best player in school history, had the best season since 1977, helped create an atmosphere that allowed for a sorely needed investment in facilities (i.e. The Al) and put the program in position to be invited to the Big East. And to top it off, he's the guy who brought your #1 coach to Marquette.
He isn't quite the program savior that O'Neill was, but it's pretty darn close. Ranking him behind Buzz is debatable, ranking him behind Shaka (as of now) is even moreso I'm a huge fan of what Shaka has done, but he inherited a much better situation and, barring a Final Four appearance this year, has done less with it.

[StillAWarrior]

Not sure why, but Crean seems way underappreciated around here (IMO).
He took over a program very much headed in the wrong direction, on a far worse trajectory than we were headed under Wojo.
He recruited the best player in school history, had the best season since 1977, helped create an atmosphere that allowed for a sorely needed investment in facilities (i.e. The Al) and put the program in position to be invited to the Big East. And to top it off, he's the guy who brought your #1 coach to Marquette.
He isn't quite the program savior that O'Neill was, but it's pretty darn close. Ranking him behind Buzz is debatable, ranking him behind Shaka (as of now) is even moreso I'm a huge fan of what Shaka has done, but he inherited a much better situation and, barring a Final Four appearance this year, has done less with it.

I agree with most of what you said.

I think that there are two reasons why Crean is under appreciated/disliked:

1) "It's Indiana." As much as it pissed people off -- including me, it wasn't an unreasonable take at the time. Amazing how times have changed.

2) This GIF. On this one, there is no defending Crean.

[Galway Eagle]

Not sure why, but Crean seems way underappreciated around here (IMO).
He took over a program very much headed in the wrong direction, on a far worse trajectory than we were headed under Wojo.
He recruited the best player in school history, had the best season since 1977, helped create an atmosphere that allowed for a sorely needed investment in facilities (i.e. The Al) and put the program in position to be invited to the Big East. And to top it off, he's the guy who brought your #1 coach to Marquette.
He isn't quite the program savior that O'Neill was, but it's pretty darn close. Ranking him behind Buzz is debatable, ranking him behind Shaka (as of now) is even moreso I'm a huge fan of what Shaka has done, but he inherited a much better situation and, barring a Final Four appearance this year, has done less with it.

I'll grant that he rebuilt the program after Deane basically tanked what KO did, and hired buzz built the Al etc and I did have him number 2 initially.

However, after I think the fact that he ended up in the NIT back to back with two future NBA players (one year where they were both upper classmen) has soured many, along with him doing nothing in march with 3 years of 3 of the best players in the post Al era and 2yrs of a 4th also soured many. And with those considerations compared to Shakas titles I opted for Shaka above him. as of now it's debatable, though even if we give Crean credit for Buzz's 08-09 year (warranted given 4 of the starters) I think buzz still pulls ahead imo.

[MUfan12]

Shaka is the best coach and steward of the men's basketball program at MU since Al, bar none. Sit back and enjoy the view. We are in a most enviable position with Smart drivin' the bus. BTW, there is not, nor should there be, any heat on his ass, regardless of how this season ends up, aina?

Dat's right, hey.

[4everwarriors]

Not sure why, but Crean seems way underappreciated around here (IMO).
He took over a program very much headed in the wrong direction, on a far worse trajectory than we were headed under Wojo.
He recruited the best player in school history, had the best season since 1977, helped create an atmosphere that allowed for a sorely needed investment in facilities (i.e. The Al) and put the program in position to be invited to the Big East. And to top it off, he's the guy who brought your #1 coach to Marquette.
He isn't quite the program savior that O'Neill was, but it's pretty darn close. Ranking him behind Buzz is debatable, ranking him behind Shaka (as of now) is even moreso I'm a huge fan of what Shaka has done, but he inherited a much better situation and, barring a Final Four appearance this year, has done less with it.

Simple, despite having a week to prepare for a fast breaking Kansas team, he had no answer and crapped himself on college basketball's biggest stage. He didn't "just" lose, his team got embarrassed and spanked. In short, Crean's a phony, a fraud, and a prick. We celebrate the 16th Annual FFC Day in a little over a month. Rejoice Warrior nation. Our day will come, hey?

[Pakuni]

Simple, despite having a week to prepare for a fast breaking Kansas team, he had no answer and crapped himself on college basketball's biggest stage. He didn't "just" lose, his team got embarrassed and spanked. In short, Crean's a phony, a fraud, and a prick. We celebrate the 16th Annual FFC Day in a little over a month. Rejoice Warrior nation. Our day will come, hey?

No Marquette coach before or since has been blown out in a tournament game.
Can't even remember that time Buzz's squad put up 39 points in an Elite 8 game.

[4everwarriors]

By your own admission, "He recruited the best player in school history, had the best season since 1977." Add in that he's a phony, a fraud, and a prick and there you have it, hey?

[Uncle Rico]

When you listen to the loudest Crean critics, you know he did something right

[HowardsWorld]

No Marquette coach before or since has been blown out in a tournament game.
Can't even remember that time Buzz's squad put up 39 points in an Elite 8 game.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401408583

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

When you listen to the loudest Crean critics, you know he did something right

Yep.

[Galway Eagle]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401408583

You know since the Washington loss we have been largely non competitive when eliminated from the tournament.

2011: UNC kicks our ass

2012: Florida embarrassed us even though the score wasn't horrendous.

2013: record for lowest points scored iirc

2017: South Carolina put on a clinic

2019: Murray St put on a clinic

2022: UNC kicked the living crap out of us

2023: MSU was close but we basically looked confused and disinterested. I guess this was competitive but more like both teams trying to lose than either trying to win.

[Uncle Rico]

Yep.

There was a subset of fans who believed Marquette could never return to the heights achieved under Al when Crean got hired.  After listening to things said by O'Neill and Deane, they bought into that idea. 

Crean challenged that notion while embracing the past.  He challenged the alpha in their league at the time, Cincinnati.  Went toe-to-toe with Louisville and Pitino and shepherded Marquette into the Big East, something unfathomable not that long before his hiring.  Not only went into the Big East but wasn't bullied by the powers of the league.

No, Crean wasn't a great in-game coach but he helped prove those wrong who said Marquette couldn't rise again.  Maybe Shaka is the guy that returns them, but the foundation was laid by Crean and the department that hired him

[BM1090]

You know since the Washington loss we have been largely non competitive when eliminated from the tournament.

2011: UNC kicks our ass

2012: Florida embarrassed us even though the score wasn't horrendous.

2013: record for lowest points scored iirc

2017: South Carolina put on a clinic

2019: Murray St put on a clinic

2022: UNC kicked the living crap out of us

2023: MSU was close but we basically looked confused and disinterested. I guess this was competitive but more like both teams trying to lose than either trying to win.

I disagree with 2012 and 2023 to an extent. The rest are spot on.

I was at the 2012 game and I didn't think we got embarrassed. We had a lot of shots that could have swung momentum that we just didn't make. DJO and Crowder went 3/14 on threes, just picked a bad time to have a cold shooting game. We had a better OR%, only 9 turnovers, and got to the line more than Florida.

Just not going to beat many solid teams shooting 30% from the field.

[Uncle Rico]

I disagree with 2012 and 2023 to an extent. The rest are spot on.

I was at the 2012 game and I didn't think we got embarrassed. We had a lot of shots that could have swung momentum that we just didn't make. DJO and Crowder went 3/14 on threes, just picked a bad time to have a cold shooting game. We had a better OR%, only 9 turnovers, and got to the line more than Florida.

Just not going to beat many solid teams shooting 30% from the field.

Yeah, '12 was frustrating because that game was there for the taking.