How important is the 2nd weekend to you?

[Pakuni]

Brother Pakuni:

You neglect to see the difference between what we expect to see and how we view our beloved Warriors.

Objectively, I think our ceiling is Final Four, though it would take a very good seeding/draw to get there. I can see us potentially making the championship but I think beating Houston, Purdue or UConn will be extremely tough. But, as I noted above, if we get the wrong team or someone gets extraordinarily hot, we could be toast. Likewise, maybe Purdue and UConn lay an egg along the way and we end up with a very nice path to a Natty!

In 1973, we were a heck of a better team than Indiana. The only notable on their team was Quinn Buckner. Our team had four future NBAers. We were ranked fifth in the nation. Indiana barely cracked the Top 10. Guess who won? Guess who was REALLY disappointed!

We won't even talk about 1978.

Crap happens. We're not COLE, we're realists. As I said, Coach Shaka is doing a great job and I'm all-in on him. I'm excited but have been down the "Meet me in St Louis" path (MU 1978) one time too many!

Brother dgies,

If MU, as expected, enters the tournament again as a top 10 team (with a 2/3 seed) and again doesn't advance to the second weekend, it's a failure. It's not a luck of the draw/bad matchup/cold shooting situation. There shouldn't be 7/10 seed in this field that's a matchup nightmare for this Marquette squad or one that requires a hot shooting night to defeat. MU will be the much better team, and when the much better team loses, it's a failure.

The 1973 season you cite isn't at all comparable. If MU loses in the tourney to a "barely" top 10 team, that's understandable. Losing to a team ranked outside the top 25 - likely our first two round opponents - is not.

1978 was a failure.

Nobody says Shaka should be fired or even on the hot seat with an early exit. But it's not "crap happens" either.

[CTWarrior]

I have a nagging feeling that this might be the peak under Shaka. 

I think Kolek and Oso are the perfect players in his system.  Whenever Kolek sits against a good team we seem to play poorly, unless Kam goes on a roll.  That's why I don't get the optimism for next year if we don't pick up a PG and/or another big who can play big minutes effectively.  Other than transfers year 1, I have been underwhelmed by the players Shaka has brought in so far.  In another thread the general consensus seemed to be that we were going to dip to a 7-10 seed next season.  I have to admit my thoughts were that I don't see how the returning group of players is an NCAA tournament team at all.

I have enjoyed greatly Shaka's tenure thus far, because the brand of basketball we play is a joy to watch and we have been very successful playing it.  Just not confident we will sustain it.  I remember having the same feeling under Wojo during Henry Ellenson's season that we weren't going to be a team that could win a couple NCAA games for a while.  But that feeling changed when he picked up Sam and Markus, and although that fizzled out, at least there was hope.

All of the above is why I will be really disappointed if we don't make it through the first weekend this year, because I think this will be our best chance for a while.

[BM1090]

I have a nagging feeling that this might be the peak under Shaka. 

I think Kolek and Oso are the perfect players in his system.  Whenever Kolek sits against a good team we seem to play poorly, unless Kam goes on a roll.  That's why I don't get the optimism for next year if we don't pick up a PG and/or another big who can play big minutes effectively.  Other than transfers year 1, I have been underwhelmed by the players Shaka has brought in so far.  In another thread the general consensus seemed to be that we were going to dip to a 7-10 seed next season.  I have to admit my thoughts were that I don't see how the returning group of players is an NCAA tournament team at all.

I have enjoyed greatly Shaka's tenure thus far, because the brand of basketball we play is a joy to watch and we have been very successful playing it.  Just not confident we will sustain it.  I remember having the same feeling under Wojo during Henry Ellenson's season that we weren't going to be a team that could win a couple NCAA games for a while.  But that feeling changed when he picked up Sam and Markus, and although that fizzled out, at least there was hope.

All of the above is why I will be really disappointed if we don't make it through the first weekend this year, because I think this will be our best chance for a while.

I think you're overestimating his dedication to one particular system. I think without TK he'll have a slightly different system. The emphasis on 3s and paint will stay the same but how they achieve that will be different.

Year one the offense looked different than the last two years.

[MUbiz]

I have a nagging feeling that this might be the peak under Shaka. 

I think Kolek and Oso are the perfect players in his system.  Whenever Kolek sits against a good team we seem to play poorly, unless Kam goes on a roll.  That's why I don't get the optimism for next year if we don't pick up a PG and/or another big who can play big minutes effectively.  Other than transfers year 1, I have been underwhelmed by the players Shaka has brought in so far.  In another thread the general consensus seemed to be that we were going to dip to a 7-10 seed next season.  I have to admit my thoughts were that I don't see how the returning group of players is an NCAA tournament team at all.

I have enjoyed greatly Shaka's tenure thus far, because the brand of basketball we play is a joy to watch and we have been very successful playing it.  Just not confident we will sustain it.  I remember having the same feeling under Wojo during Henry Ellenson's season that we weren't going to be a team that could win a couple NCAA games for a while.  But that feeling changed when he picked up Sam and Markus, and although that fizzled out, at least there was hope.

All of the above is why I will be really disappointed if we don't make it through the first weekend this year, because I think this will be our best chance for a while.

It is a failure if we do not advance to the 2nd weekend. We can't expect to just have a 2 or 3 seed every year - so we need to make the most of the good years and take advantage of the opportunity. I do not 100% agree with the "peak under Shaka" comment.  We do not know what our team is going to be like next year and UConn and Creighton are losing a ton after this season.  Additionally, the players that are playing ball for 6 years because of the free covid year ends next year. So the 2025-2026 season will be the first time in quite sometime where you wont have 24-25 year old's playing basketball.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Winning consistently in March improves the perception of the basketball team and the university. How many people knew who/what/where a Gonzaga is before their sustained NCAA tournament success?

If lots of Joe Schmoe's care, that helps our cherished schools long term viability.

So you think there is THAT significant enough difference in a Sweet 16 run versus regular season success  that it impacts the "schools (sic) long term viability?" That's a stretch.

[wadesworld]

Shaka's first year was expected to be bubbly at the very best.  We were safely in the field.  Second year we were supposed to be nowhere close to the Tournament.  We were the best team in the Big East, a Big East that provided the National Champion.  This year he was supposed to have a Final Four contender, and that's what we are.

Will this be Shaka's peak?  I mean, probably?  How many MU teams have been ranked in the top 10 for a huge majority of the season, especially coming off a BE regular season and Tourney title?  Prior to Shaka, I believe our highest seed ever was a 3 seed.  We're probably going to be back to back 2 seeds.

But there is nothing in Shaka's career that suggests we're about to fall off a cliff and not compete for a Tournament appearance next year.  He had some bad injury/illness luck at Texas, but has otherwise been an awesome college basketball coach.

[Dr. Blackheart]

This thread is getting borderline COLE.

Bingo. MU donors just paid $9 million to get rid of a mediocre coach. Now we are told by Scoopers it's all a crapshoot anyway.  Money wasted apparently.

My expectation is less crapping, more shooting.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I have a nagging feeling that this might be the peak under Shaka. 

My goodness...we are in year three with a 46 year old coach.

[GoFastAndWin]

CT Warrior.
Sheesh. Year 1: with a ragtag team of guys who had basically never played together, Shaka and staff somehow worked magic to make the NCAAs.

Year 2: a team picked for 9th ends up doing what nobody thought possible in their wildest dreams.

Year 3: a team that every single team is placing a target on their backs has a phenomenal start to the season followed by a brief winter swoon followed by another phenomenal run, and now after one beat down by the NO1 team in the land on their own floor Shaka and his staff have all of a sudden plateaued as coaches?

😬 What is it about people from Connecticut and garish, quixotic expectations and grading scales? I’m sure you know ball, and not that you need anyone’s approval. I guess I’m honestly just curious as to why you feel this way?

[MuMark]

It’s never been all about March for me…….the regular season is 4 months long…….having a top 10-25 team matters…..making the tournament matters……..everyone here would like a deep run……none of us here have any control over if it happens.

None of our expectations mean squat…….we will root for MU and the season will play out…….when the last game is over we will likely be sad…….just like every other fan base save 1.

It’s the nature of sports and it won’t change because somebody on a message board thinks it’s about time their school gets to another final 4 or wins a championship.

[Elonsmusk]

Shaka's first year was expected to be bubbly at the very best.  We were safely in the field.  Second year we were supposed to be nowhere close to the Tournament.  We were the best team in the Big East, a Big East that provided the National Champion.  This year he was supposed to have a Final Four contender, and that's what we are.

Will this be Shaka's peak?  I mean, probably?  How many MU teams have been ranked in the top 10 for a huge majority of the season, especially coming off a BE regular season and Tourney title?  Prior to Shaka, I believe our highest seed ever was a 3 seed.  We're probably going to be back to back 2 seeds.

But there is nothing in Shaka's career that suggests we're about to fall off a cliff and not compete for a Tournament appearance next year.  He had some bad injury/illness luck at Texas, but has otherwise been an awesome college basketball coach.

Well said.  I'll add though that it would be great for this team to advance at least to the Elite 8 as that would truly eliminate and get the monkey off the back for Shaka as it relates to NCAA tournament success.  I'm sure he feels a degree of added pressure given his track record thus far and last year's earlier than expected exit.

[1SE]

One of the big reasons I'm so about ncaat success is that I truly believe the tournament is the best event in all of sport. David vs. Goliath, every game is do or die, a smorgasbord of action on the first weekend, a system where being a better team helps, and better teams usually win it all, but anybody can and does win. For the best 4 teams it's 3 weeks long.

That said, my enjoyment of the ncaat largely wanes once MU is not in. Making the second weekend gives me a minimum of 5 more days of thoroughly enjoying the best event in sport.

[CTWarrior]

CT Warrior.
Sheesh. Year 1: with a ragtag team of guys who had basically never played together, Shaka and staff somehow worked magic to make the NCAAs.

Year 2: a team picked for 9th ends up doing what nobody thought possible in their wildest dreams.

Year 3: a team that every single team is placing a target on their backs has a phenomenal start to the season followed by a brief winter swoon followed by another phenomenal run, and now after one beat down by the NO1 team in the land on their own floor Shaka and his staff have all of a sudden plateaued as coaches?

😬 What is it about people from Connecticut and garish, quixotic expectations and grading scales? I’m sure you know ball, and not that you need anyone’s approval. I guess I’m honestly just curious as to why you feel this way?

Like I said, it's a nagging feeling, a gut feeling.  My tune could easily change in a year.  I watched college basketball for close to 50 years and consistently successful programs regularly bring in freshmen who are impact players year 1.  I think that is the cause of my concern.  With Shaka's guys thus far we seem to project that they will be good in the future, I'd feel better if we saw more of it on the floor now.

I think Shaka is a helluva coach and his first three seasons are proof of that.  I don't worry that he'll extract the most out of the rosters he puts together.  But ultimately you need the horses if you are going to win consistently.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Last year’s team had better odds to make the F4 than the actual 2003 F4 team. This year’s team, with the current preliminary seed from last Saturday, would be expected to be similar.

https://www.barttorvik.com/cgi-bin/ncaa.cgi?type=team&lookup=Marquette

[GoFastAndWin]

Like I said, it's a nagging feeling, a gut feeling.  My tune could easily change in a year.  I watched college basketball for close to 50 years and consistently successful programs regularly bring in freshmen who are impact players year 1.  I think that is the cause of my concern.  With Shaka's guys thus far we seem to project that they will be good in the future, I'd feel better if we saw more of it on the floor now.

I think Shaka is a helluva coach and his first three seasons are proof of that.  I don't worry that he'll extract the most out of the rosters he puts together.  But ultimately you need the horses if you are going to win consistently.

Fair enough. I think if truth be told, as much as  thinking others’ progression would replace Omax, my guess is that Shaka expected a ton from Tre Norman as far as a defensive plug-in for Omax. I might be off-base on that, but after watching some HS film of Tre, I was super impressed with his D, and last summer Shaka made comments how he expected him to be an immediate contributor. Of course, it’s a huge leap from HS to high major D1🏀. Tre is getting it little by little, and I expect a huge jump from him and Zaide next season.

   As far as not hitting the portal for the “now” you speak of, despite the slower than anticipated progress of replacing Omax, I still believe Shaka made the correct decision, especially when you put it into the context of what Goose has discussed as it relates to NIL. Shaka spoke a couple weeks ago of being in a “now hourly battle for the hearts and minds of our guys.” That goes with the territory of the new normal. It also goes along with success, so I’m not pointing to red flags. What I’m trying to say is….Imagine how difficult that battle would be if you threw a new highly-paid free agent into the mix?

[wisblue]

Last year’s team had better odds to make the F4 than the actual 2003 F4 team. This year’s team, with the current preliminary seed from last Saturday, would be expected to be similar.

https://www.barttorvik.com/cgi-bin/ncaa.cgi?type=team&lookup=Marquette

I note that, even with the 2 seed, this only gave MU a 54% chance of reaching the Sweet 16.

Maybe a little bit of a reality check that, while it’s fine to have high hopes for a deep tournament run, actually doing it is not that easy.

As disappointing as the game against MSU was, if I remember correctly, MU was only abouta a 3 point favorite. So, not exactly the collapse of the decade.
 

[dgies9156]

Bingo. MU donors just paid $9 million to get rid of a mediocre coach. Now we are told by Scoopers it's all a crapshoot anyway.  Money wasted apparently.

My expectation is less crapping, more shooting.

Most Magnificent Doc:

Mine too.

But is the season a failure if we run into a buzz saw the second weekend? I'd hope not because we've been quite entertaining and a lot of fun to watch. Cripe, it's even bringing me, you and Newsdreams together at Real Chili this weekend!

That, in and of itself, makes the season a success, especially when Newsdreams loses the bet!!!!

The only season failure I'd hang on a tournament loss was 1978.

My point in citing Coach McGuire's losses was that we revere him in spite of too many false starts in the NCAAs. Give us time and we'll revere Coach Shaka too!

[MochaJoe]

So you think there is THAT significant enough difference in a Sweet 16 run versus regular season success  that it impacts the "schools (sic) long term viability?" That's a stretch.

Yes - Drake va Gonzaga the last 5 years. Post season success matters.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Most Magnificent Doc:

Mine too.

But is the season a failure if we run into a buzz saw the second weekend? I'd hope not because we've been quite entertaining and a lot of fun to watch. Cripe, it's even bringing me, you and Newsdreams together at Real Chili this weekend!

That, in and of itself, makes the season a success, especially when Newsdreams loses the bet!!!!

The only season failure I'd hang on a tournament loss was 1978.

My point in citing Coach McGuire's losses was that we revere him in spite of too many false starts in the NCAAs. Give us time and we'll revere Coach Shaka too!

Nobody used the words “season failure” or “collapse of the decade” (wisblue). A lot of excuse making in this thread before the fact. We want high expectations, and of course, not hitting them when the team worked hard all year to put themselves into position to succeed, would be a disappointment to any fan.

The rest is COLE. Excuse making is for Projos.

[HowardsWorld]

If it doesn't matter why even have a champion?

[MochaJoe]

If it doesn't matter why even have a champion?

It really should be the Kenpom leader after the regular season.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yes - Drake va Gonzaga the last 5 years. Post season success matters.

Gonna just have to disagree on that. Completely.

[Viper]

Rico gets it.

🤔

[Goose]

Great posts, Dr. B. The amount of fear or angst over an early exit blows me away. COLE has been the mantra for many MU fans for a long time and it has risen with team success. If the last two years had not convinced some fans that future is extremely bright, I do not think they will ever be convinced.

[Viper]

So you think there is THAT significant enough difference in a Sweet 16 run versus regular season success  that it impacts the "schools (sic) long term viability?" That's a stretch.

I’ll say this…when I’m on the east coast for work, if making small talk and college hoops comes up, people know Marquette. ‘Great Basketball’. ‘Man, you guys are always good’. ‘DWade could ball’ Blah blah, point is, we are known for hoops…and maybe the dental school 😉. Our hoops success contributes to us being a ‘name’. Having this notoriety does contribute to revenue. Revenue…keeps the lights on…especially-so at a time when a college degree is not as valued as it once was.