Thoughts and prayers in Perry, Iowa

[dgies9156]

Frankly, while I'm moderately conservative, I'm philosophically in agreement with those who want more control over guns and gun ownership. As I read my Constitution, there's nothing that says we can't limit what arms a person can bear. Otherwise, limitations on ownership of atomic bombs, B52 delivery systems and a host of war weapons are unconstitutional.

But for those of you who favor stricter gun control, let me pose the following situational challenge:

We all want guns out of the hands of the Insane Idiots Street Gang in Big Cityville, USA. And we want automatic weapons out of the hands of Ron Shootemup. But I also have a friend who lives in rural Alaska, literally on the edge of a heavy forest. His yard is frequented by moose and by various species of bear. My friend packs heat when he walks the 50 years from his house to his workshop, primarily as protection against rutting moose or hungry bear. No humans have ever been injured during his walk to the workshop. He is an upstanding citizen, legal, registered gun-owner with an FOID and never been convicted of anything more than a traffic violation.

I have another friend who hunts deer in Northern Wisconsin. His guns always are locked up, except when he's in a deer blind waiting for Bambi to mosey on by. He also has an FOID, locks his guns and has been to firearms safety and training class.

How do you get the guns out of the hands of the Insane Idiots and Mr. Shootemup but protect my Alaska and Wisconsin friends' gun ownership rights?

As a final note, we have an interesting issue down here in Florida. If a person trespasses on your property, our state's stand your ground law allows you to shoot the human violator if you are threatened or your security is at risk. However, if an alligator trespasses on your property and is a threat to life or limb, you are required under Florida law to call the Florida Department of Conservation. If you shoot it yourself, it's a Class C felony punishable by fine and/or imprisonment. Only an authorized alligator shooter may shoot the alligator and that's only with DOC authorization.

In short, alligators have more protection than people in Florida!!!!

[Pakuni]

In short, alligators have more protection than people in Florida!!!!

They're less dangerous.

[lawdog77]

They're less dangerous.

And oftentimes smarter

[dgies9156]

And oftentimes smarter

If they're so damn smart, why do they live in a smelly swamp or a dirty lake, rather than adjacent to an ocean?

[lawdog77]

If they're so damn smart, why do they live in a smelly swamp or a dirty lake, rather than adjacent to an ocean?

Did you live in McCormick?

[ATL MU Warrior]

No way.
Not with our leadership that only gets better with age.

yeah, the age of our leaders is not really why I wrote that.  we have a large segment of our society who is living in a reality of their own construct, leaving the rest of us to deal with the real reality.  most of the dopes are probably older, so maybe as they tap out the problem will get better.

[Spotcheck Billy]

In short, alligators have more protection than people in Florida!!!!

That's because they can't vote.

[MU82]

Frankly, while I'm moderately conservative, I'm philosophically in agreement with those who want more control over guns and gun ownership. As I read my Constitution, there's nothing that says we can't limit what arms a person can bear. Otherwise, limitations on ownership of atomic bombs, B52 delivery systems and a host of war weapons are unconstitutional.

But for those of you who favor stricter gun control, let me pose the following situational challenge:

We all want guns out of the hands of the Insane Idiots Street Gang in Big Cityville, USA. And we want automatic weapons out of the hands of Ron Shootemup. But I also have a friend who lives in rural Alaska, literally on the edge of a heavy forest. His yard is frequented by moose and by various species of bear. My friend packs heat when he walks the 50 years from his house to his workshop, primarily as protection against rutting moose or hungry bear. No humans have ever been injured during his walk to the workshop. He is an upstanding citizen, legal, registered gun-owner with an FOID and never been convicted of anything more than a traffic violation.

I have another friend who hunts deer in Northern Wisconsin. His guns always are locked up, except when he's in a deer blind waiting for Bambi to mosey on by. He also has an FOID, locks his guns and has been to firearms safety and training class.

How do you get the guns out of the hands of the Insane Idiots and Mr. Shootemup but protect my Alaska and Wisconsin friends' gun ownership rights?

This has been answered multiple times by multiple posters over the last several years.

You can't get guns out of the hands of everyone who shouldn't have them. That's impossible, just as it's impossible to get drugs out of drug addicts' hands or booze out of alcoholics' hands or  ...

And even the strongest laws are broken somewhere by someone pretty much every day. Having a law doesn't prevent crime, it only can deter it, discourage it, make it more difficult to commit, and/or punish it. Take restraining orders ... they don't stop everybody who's been served one from breaking the order and attacking the person the order is supposed to be protecting, but I doubt many people support ending restraining orders.

There are many common-sense gun-safety laws that could help the situation. Universal registration requirements with no loopholes. Mandatory waiting periods after purchase. Guns inside a home must be stored where children can't get them. Mandatory training. Strong red-flag laws. No weapons that can shoot dozens of rounds in a matter of seconds. No bump stocks.

Most of those (and others I can't think of off the top of my head) are supported by an overwhelming majority of Americans - gun-owning Republicans included.

[jesmu84]

Frankly, while I'm moderately conservative, I'm philosophically in agreement with those who want more control over guns and gun ownership. As I read my Constitution, there's nothing that says we can't limit what arms a person can bear. Otherwise, limitations on ownership of atomic bombs, B52 delivery systems and a host of war weapons are unconstitutional.

But for those of you who favor stricter gun control, let me pose the following situational challenge:

We all want guns out of the hands of the Insane Idiots Street Gang in Big Cityville, USA. And we want automatic weapons out of the hands of Ron Shootemup. But I also have a friend who lives in rural Alaska, literally on the edge of a heavy forest. His yard is frequented by moose and by various species of bear. My friend packs heat when he walks the 50 years from his house to his workshop, primarily as protection against rutting moose or hungry bear. No humans have ever been injured during his walk to the workshop. He is an upstanding citizen, legal, registered gun-owner with an FOID and never been convicted of anything more than a traffic violation.

I have another friend who hunts deer in Northern Wisconsin. His guns always are locked up, except when he's in a deer blind waiting for Bambi to mosey on by. He also has an FOID, locks his guns and has been to firearms safety and training class.

How do you get the guns out of the hands of the Insane Idiots and Mr. Shootemup but protect my Alaska and Wisconsin friends' gun ownership rights?

As a final note, we have an interesting issue down here in Florida. If a person trespasses on your property, our state's stand your ground law allows you to shoot the human violator if you are threatened or your security is at risk. However, if an alligator trespasses on your property and is a threat to life or limb, you are required under Florida law to call the Florida Department of Conservation. If you shoot it yourself, it's a Class C felony punishable by fine and/or imprisonment. Only an authorized alligator shooter may shoot the alligator and that's only with DOC authorization.

In short, alligators have more protection than people in Florida!!!!

Treat guns like cars - training, license, insurance, etc.

Severely punish gun related crime.

[NCMUFan]

Treat guns like cars - training, license, insurance, etc.

Severely punish gun related crime.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/how-to-get-a-concealed-carry-permit/north-carolina/

[Hards Alumni]

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/how-to-get-a-concealed-carry-permit/north-carolina/

Ah, so you agree.  A well REGULATED militia means WELL REGULATED.

Good to know.

[lawdog77]

Ah, so you agree.  A well REGULATED militia means WELL REGULATED.

Good to know.

Most people do. It's the gun industry that doesn't

[WellsstreetWanderer]

The current existing laws could be enforced and that would go a long way toward what we all want.
Keep violent felons off the street.. Use the laws we already have enacted

[Pakuni]

Keep violent felons off the street.. Use the laws we already have enacted

These two things are contradictory.
Plus, a large majority of murderers, and nearly all mass shooters, are not violent felons prior to those crimes.

[Uncle Rico]

These two things are contradictory.
Plus, a large majority of murderers, and nearly all mass shooters, are not violent felons prior to those crimes.

More doors will stop these events

[WellsstreetWanderer]

These two things are contradictory.
Plus, a large majority of murderers, and nearly all mass shooters, are not violent felons prior to those crimes.

  A large majority of murderers do not use guns . Clubs, fists and other weapons account for most murders

[ATL MU Warrior]

  A large majority of murderers do not use guns . Clubs, fists and other weapons account for most murders

this is utterly and completely incorrect.  Why am I not surprised given you think 1/6 was some kind of psyop and the proof is coming.

[cheebs09]

  A large majority of murderers do not use guns . Clubs, fists and other weapons account for most murders

Other than Chuck Norris, I don't know if anyone's fists are causing the destruction in a short amount of time as a gun can.

[withoutbias]

  A large majority of murderers do not use guns . Clubs, fists and other weapons account for most murders

I guess if you have some wild definition of "majority" then maybe.  Maybe your definition of "majority" thinks Donald Trump received a "majority" of the votes in 2020 (or 2016 for that matter).

In 2019, 45.7% of homicides were carried out with handguns, 2.6% with rifles, 1.4% with shotguns, 23.9% with unknown type of firearms, 10.6% with knives or other cutting instruments, 11.4% with other weapons, and 4.3% with hands, fists, feet, etc.

So unless things have changed dramatically (they haven't), you have one crazy way of definining "majority."

[Pakuni]

  A large majority of murderers do not use guns . Clubs, fists and other weapons account for most murders

This is terribly false.

Of the 19,200 homicides recorded in 2022, 15,643 were committed with a gun.
That's 81.4%.

https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/shr

[TSmith34, Inc.]

  A large majority of murderers do not use guns . Clubs, fists and other weapons account for most murders

Wow. Just wow.

You are amazing.

[Hards Alumni]

  A large majority of murderers do not use guns . Clubs, fists and other weapons account for most murders

Consider this your induction to the Hall of Shame.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

It also states that reporting is not complete but i will concede though i have seen other figures

I will remind you that the FBI and CDC"s  own numbers suggest that the presence of a gun either stops or prevents a crime in the U.S. from 1.5MM to 2MM times each year. There are far more law abiding citizens than criminals.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Consider this your induction to the Hall of Shame.

  A Proud Man's Contumely Affects Me Not

[Pakuni]

I will remind you that the FBI and CDC"s  own numbers suggest that the presence of a gun either stops or prevents a crime in the U.S. from 1.5MM to 2MM times each year. There are far more law abiding citizens than criminals.

This also has been widely debunked.
https://www.thetrace.org/2022/06/defensive-gun-use-data-good-guys-with-guns/
https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/defensive-gun-use.html

Anyone with common sense would understand why. If just the 1.5 million number were correct, that would mean guns stop a crime from occurring 4,109 times a day every single day. Or 171 times every hour, 24 hours a day. Or three times every single minute of every singe day, a gun is used to stop a crime.