Lewiston shooting

[MU82]

He said he heard voices and wanted to shoot places up.  I'm not sure how big of a neon sign you need, but obviously releasing this man not under supervision (bare minimum) and allowing him access to deadly firearms are also major contributing factors.

That's really the crux of the issue.  People who are clearly unwell having access to firearms that are designed to kill humans alone.

Stop this crazy talk. If only every man, woman and child in Lewiston had 50 ARs apiece, this never would have happened. That's just math.

[The Sultan]

He said he heard voices and wanted to shoot places up.  I'm not sure how big of a neon sign you need, but obviously releasing this man not under supervision (bare minimum) and allowing him access to deadly firearms are also major contributing factors.

That's really the crux of the issue.  People who are clearly unwell having access to firearms that are designed to kill humans alone.

I agree completely.  But I do also believe that if he was still hearing such voices and he was still released, that's not great either.  I am certainly not saying that someone needs to be locked up indefinitely, but if we are going to lock people up, they need to be cared for. And that's costly, but the alternatives aren't great either.

[4everwarriors]

Shirley, ur knot denying 1 or more individuals, with a conceal and carry permit, wouldn't have taken dis nutjob out and saved lives, hey?

[Pakuni]

Those who are mentally ill and/or devious don't necessarily follow laws, or haven't you noticed, hey?

Oh, we know. We have a whole thread about those people.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=63361.0

[lawdog77]

Shirley, ur knot denying 1 or more individuals, with a conceal and carry permit, wouldn't have taken dis nutjob out and saved lives, hey?

The killer was a trained killer. Most conceal and carry are more of the Barney Fife type.

[dgies9156]

What would Jesus do?  Probably buy a Glock

Brother Rico:

Tell ya what. If Jesus had a concealed carry permit and a Glock tucked undear his tunic, Pilate and the boys would think twice about nailing the guy to a cross.

Of course, Pilate's guys all would have AR-15s and Uzis.

[Uncle Rico]

Brother Rico:

Tell ya what. If Jesus had a concealed carry permit and a Glock tucked undear his tunic, Pilate and the boys would think twice about nailing the guy to a cross.

Of course, Pilate's guys all would have AR-15s and Uzis.

It is a great hypothetical if we really think about it.  Of course, Jesus died for our sins and we've repaid that with our constant disregard for the lives of our fellow man. 

[Jockey]

He said he heard voices and wanted to shoot places up.  I'm not sure how big of a neon sign you need, but obviously releasing this man not under supervision (bare minimum) and allowing him access to deadly firearms are also major contributing factors.

That's really the crux of the issue.  People who are clearly unwell having access to firearms that are designed to kill humans alone.

The whole mental health thing is just a diversion. If a law was passed to prevent them from purchasing a gun, it would be overturned. Just like the law preventing a spouse who threatened their partner with a gun from keeping that gun will be overturned soon. Anyone who puts a gun to the head of another human and threatens to kill them is already nuts. But can't take the gun out of a nuts hand.

[Jockey]

Shirley, ur knot denying 1 or more individuals, with a conceal and carry permit, wouldn't have taken dis nutjob out and saved lives, hey?

Yes. A pistol is the best defense against an assault rifle. Quit being so willfully stupid.

[MUBurrow]

The killer was a trained killer. Most conceal and carry are more of the Barney Fife type.

Nope. Wrong. That's definitely not how it looks in my head when I'm getting off daydreaming about saving everyone and getting on the news with my glock in one hand and my tiny glock in my other hand.

[MuggsyB]

Get this utter scumfk. Sounds like he has access to boats.  Absolute whacko piece of garbage.  Find him. 

[Galway Eagle]

Yes. A pistol is the best defense against an assault rifle. Quit being so willfully stupid.

He's not, it's the dunning Krueger effect "if I was there with my piece that never would've happened!" I don't think people who think like doc are being willfully obtuse, they genuinely believe that if they were there they'd be prepared it'd end fine and can't comprehend why someone would disagree because they're projecting that belief onto others.

[4everwarriors]

Yes. A pistol is the best defense against an assault rifle. Quit being so willfully stupid.

Pretty sure 22 and counting dead folks and dozens of others injured would have liked to have had a chance against this motherfooker, aina?

[Herman Cain]

Pretty sure 22 and counting dead folks and dozens of others injured would have liked to have had a chance against this motherfooker, aina?

I agree with this analysis

[tower912]

Get this utter scumfk. Sounds like he has access to boats.  Absolute whacko piece of garbage.  Find him.

And then send him to Iran.

[MUBurrow]

Pretty sure 22 and counting dead folks and dozens of others injured would have liked to have had a chance against this motherfooker, aina?

I actually think they probably would have preferred to just have had a significantly reduced likelihood of this happening in the first place. But who am I to interfere with your hoplophilia.

[The Sultan]

Pretty sure 22 and counting dead folks and dozens of others injured would have liked to have had a chance against this motherfooker, aina?

What point are you trying to make here? Maine is a permitless open and concealed carry state. Any one of those 22 people who are now dead could have been legally carrying (if they were 21 and older.)

But the "best defense to a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun" rarely works.

[4everwarriors]

C'mon y'all let's all sing Kumbaya followed by Lennon's "Imagine'" hey?

[dgies9156]

It is a great hypothetical if we really think about it.  Of course, Jesus died for our sins and we've repaid that with our constant disregard for the lives of our fellow man.

Taking the religious symbolism out of it, Jesus died because he was a radical. Jesus challenged the status quo and providied a philosophical thought that all persons were equal and that each life had value.

In the Roman Empire/Jewish leadership of Jesus' days, Jesus was dangerous. The same as Martin King and Medgar Evers were dangerous and had to be eliminated.

As for the disregard of the lives of our fellow men and women, take a trip to the Vatican someday. The paintings in the halls and reception areas leading to the Sistine Chapel portray conquests in the name of the reigning Pope. Or, as I whispered to Ms. Dgies at the time, "Wow, so many have died in the name of the Prince of Peace."

We're no different than the Crusaders as long as we arm our homes to the hilt and permit others to do the same.

[shoothoops]

Would it be possible for the non-agenda crowd to discontinue saying "crazy" to describe people with mental illness or mental health challenges?

The vast majority of mentally ill people are non-violent. and, are more likely to be a victim of crime than to perpetrate it. I believe most non-agenda people understand this. I would imagine 100% of people here know a friend or family member with some sort of mental health challenges in their daily lives, big or small.

There's nothing wrong with having mental health challenges. There's nothing wrong with people that go places to seek and get care for it. And there's nothing wrong with treating those people like anyone else before during and after.

Access to guns. Quantity of guns. Types of guns. Gun culture. Violence exposure as a youth, young adult etc....politicians who prioritize personal wealth, power, vote against increased mental health funding and access, but for less gun restrictions. and intentionally duping people who do little more than regurgitate talking points. And of course those who vote for tax breaks and nothing else matters. These are all of course more of the problem.

[Uncle Rico]

Taking the religious symbolism out of it, Jesus died because he was a radical. Jesus challenged the status quo and providied a philosophical thought that all persons were equal and that each life had value.

In the Roman Empire/Jewish leadership of Jesus' days, Jesus was dangerous. The same as Martin King and Medgar Evers were dangerous and had to be eliminated.

As for the disregard of the lives of our fellow men and women, take a trip to the Vatican someday. The paintings in the halls and reception areas leading to the Sistine Chapel portray conquests in the name of the reigning Pope. Or, as I whispered to Ms. Dgies at the time, "Wow, so many have died in the name of the Prince of Peace."

We're no different than the Crusaders as long as we arm our homes to the hilt and permit others to do the same.

Correct

[Uncle Rico]

Would it be possible for the non-agenda crowd to discontinue saying "crazy" to describe people with mental illness or mental health challenges?

The vast majority of mentally ill people are non-violent. and, are more likely to be a victim of crime than to perpetrate it. I believe most non-agenda people understand this. I would imagine 100% of people here know a friend or family member with some sort of mental health challenges in their daily lives, big or small.

There's nothing wrong with having mental health challenges. There's nothing wrong with people that go places to seek and get care for it. And there's nothing wrong with treating those people like anyone else before during and after.

Access to guns. Quantity of guns. Types of guns. Gun culture. Violence exposure as a youth, young adult etc....politicians who prioritize personal wealth, power, vote against increased mental health funding and access, but for less gun restrictions. and intentionally duping people who do little more than regurgitate talking points. And of course those who vote for tax breaks and nothing else matters. These are all of course more of the problem.

Correct

[MUBurrow]

C'mon y'all let's all sing Kumbaya followed by Lennon's "Imagine'" hey?

So this is where your feelings matter more than facts, because we know based on statistics elsewhere what happens to gun deaths when we reduce gun availability.  Its just math. But you don't care about that, so Ts and Ps.

[Hards Alumni]

Shirley, ur knot denying 1 or more individuals, with a conceal and carry permit, wouldn't have taken dis nutjob out and saved lives, hey?

Well he's still at large.  I wonder why the 2A crowd vigilantes in Maine aren't out there hunting the most dangerous game.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Pretty sure 22 and counting dead folks and dozens of others injured would have liked to have had a chance against this motherfooker, aina?

No, they would have liked the mootherfooker not to have a deadly weapon, oona?