2023-24 NBA Thread

[Shaka Shart]

Unbelievable talent. Too dumb to understand what consent is unfortunately.

Another notch(s) on the Thibs injury belt

https://x.com/tyleriam/status/596868913943580672?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg

[4everwarriors]

I don't think it's that far-fetched.  He was an incredible talent before the injuries and the Bulls were certainly capable of winning a title had he been the player he was.

3-time all-star and 1-time MVP entering his prime when the knees became Swiss cheese.  Given his playing style, he probably was doomed to injuries dominating his career, so it's likely the what-if scenario is wishful thinking but I'd listen to an argument he may have been a top-25 all-time talent

Reako, were ewe da dude dat took da ACT for 'im, hey?

[Uncle Rico]

Reako, were ewe da dude dat took da ACT for 'im, hey?

Well, we know it wasn't Rocket Buffoon

[Lennys Tap]

Well, we know it wasn't Rocket Buffoon

Yeah, Rocket would have scored much higher than 19.

[Uncle Rico]

Yeah, Rocket would have scored much higher than 19.

Good one, Lenny!  That made me chuckle.

[WhiteTrash]

Top 25 all time I believe.  #2 of the last 20 is a no way from me.

This in not close to hill I'd die on, and a hypothetical assertion also, but he was very special and the youngest NBA MVP ever I believe, hence the logic behind just below LBJ. I could be talked into Wade 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

This in not close to hill I'd die on, and a hypothetical assertion also, but he was very special and the youngest NBA MVP ever I believe, hence the logic behind just below LBJ. I could be talked into Wade 

I could actually make the argument that he's the least deserving MVP of the past twenty years.  And I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but he wasn't going to be better than Curry, Durant, Jokic or Giannis.

[WhiteTrash]

I could actually make the argument that he's the least deserving MVP of the past twenty years.  And I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but he wasn't going to be better than Curry, Durant, Jokic or Giannis.

That's fair.

[MurphysTillClose]

I could actually make the argument that he's the least deserving MVP of the past twenty years.  And I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but he wasn't going to be better than Curry, Durant, Jokic or Giannis.

Who should've won the 2011 MVP?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Who should've won the 2011 MVP?

Lebron. He lead the league in all sorts of advanced categories that year. I could even make a case for Durant or Paul over Rose.

[JWags85]

I give Rose a lot of credit for reshaping his game post-injury.  After that 17-18 season where he put up nice numbers on a terrible team, he had a 5 year stretch where he was averaging 15-18 PPG and 4+ assists despite playing less than 28 min a game.  He also became a pretty solid 3P shooter when that was not at all a part of his game at his peak.

[MuggsyB]

Derrick Rose retires after 16 years. Truly one of the most disappointing careers due to injury. I think you can make a sound argument he was trending to be a top 25 player of all time.  I think he would have been #2 of the past 20 years behind LeBron.

#2 is a major stretch WT.  And by major I mean gargantuan/mammoth. 

[Pakuni]

Lebron. He lead the league in all sorts of advanced categories that year. I could even make a case for Durant or Paul over Rose.

Periodic reminder that MVP doesn't always equal "best" or "best stats."
You definitely could make a statistical argument for others.
The counterargument is that Rose carried a team short on talent* to the best record in the league and his statistical profile wasn't far behind the others.

* Rose was the only all-star on the roster, which featured good/not great guys like Lu Deng, Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah. LeBron (Wade and Bosh) and Durant (Westbrook and Harden) were playing alongside future Hall of Famers.

[Jockey]

Periodic reminder that MVP doesn't always equal "best" or "best stats."
You definitely could make a statistical argument for others.
The counterargument is that Rose carried a team short on talent* to the best record in the league and his statistical profile wasn't far behind the others.

* Rose was the only all-star on the roster, which featured good/not great guys like Lu Deng, Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah. LeBron (Wade and Bosh) and Durant (Westbrook and Harden) were playing alongside future Hall of Famers.

I'm a Wisconsin guy - hates Bulls, Bears, Cubs, etc. - but I agree completely with your post.

[MurphysTillClose]

Periodic reminder that MVP doesn't always equal "best" or "best stats."
You definitely could make a statistical argument for others.
The counterargument is that Rose carried a team short on talent* to the best record in the league and his statistical profile wasn't far behind the others.

* Rose was the only all-star on the roster, which featured good/not great guys like Lu Deng, Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah. LeBron (Wade and Bosh) and Durant (Westbrook and Harden) were playing alongside future Hall of Famers.

Thank you

[WhiteTrash]

#2 is a major stretch WT.  And by major I mean gargantuan/mammoth.

That's cool. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Periodic reminder that MVP doesn't always equal "best" or "best stats."
You definitely could make a statistical argument for others.
The counterargument is that Rose carried a team short on talent* to the best record in the league and his statistical profile wasn't far behind the others.

* Rose was the only all-star on the roster, which featured good/not great guys like Lu Deng, Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah. LeBron (Wade and Bosh) and Durant (Westbrook and Harden) were playing alongside future Hall of Famers.

Wow. The best record in the NBA??? Do they hang a banner for that?

And yes, the MVP means the best player. And Lebron was the best player that year.

[MuggsyB]

That's cool. 

Rose could not be guarded because he had tremendous zoomability, quicks, + elevation.   There's no doubt about that.  When his jumper was on, good luck.  You've got a better chance of understanding Finnegan's Wake than checking him off the bounce.  That said he's not #2 in this discussion.   

[Pakuni]

Wow. The best record in the NBA??? Do they hang a banner for that?

Its a regular season award.

And yes, the MVP means the best player. And Lebron was the best player that year.

MVP stands for Most Bestest Player!

Worth noting that Rose got 113 of 121 first-place votes. There was nothing questionable about the selection at the time.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I can always count on the lame "MVP doesn't mean best" argument to justify a poor selection. And Rose was a poor selection.

[WhiteTrash]

Rose could not be guarded because he had tremendous zoomability, quicks, + elevation.   There's no doubt about that.  When his jumper was on, good luck.  You've got a better chance of understanding Finnegan's Wake than checking him off the bounce.  That said he's not #2 in this discussion.

He is not anywhere close to #2. I only suggested he could have been based upon his trajectory. We will never know and I find it very reasonable to disagree that he was on that path.

For context, I do find the occasional arguments that Gail Sayers could have been the greatest RB ever to have substance. But I am not passionate about this stuff. Good bar room banter is all I see.

[WhiteTrash]

I can always count on the lame "MVP doesn't mean best" argument to justify a poor selection. And Rose was a poor selection.

Hippie Satan > NBA writers.

[MuggsyB]

He is not anywhere close to #2. I only suggested he could have been based upon his trajectory. We will never know and I find it very reasonable to disagree that he was on that path.

For context, I do find the occasional arguments that Gail Sayers could have been the greatest RB ever to have substance. But I am not passionate about this stuff. Good bar room banter is all I see.

I see Rose as a bigger Iverson. 

[WhiteTrash]

I see Rose as a bigger Iverson.

Iverson? Iverson? Are we talking about Iverson? We're not talking about Rose, we're talking about Iverson? 

[MuggsyB]

Iverson? Iverson? Are we talking about Iverson? We're not talking about Rose, we're talking about Iverson? 

I slot Iverson and Rose ahead of Westbrook.