2023-24 NBA Thread

[wadesworld]

There is talk that the Bucks are considering trading Portis for Andrew Wiggins. That's how they would take care of their backcourt.

I don't see any way the Bucks can make that work.  Wiggins is set to make over $24MM next year while Bobby is set to make under $12MM.  Neither team can bring in a penny more than what they send out, and neither team can aggregate salaries to make matching salaries work.  Even if you could aggregate salaries, the next highest salary the Bucks have is Pat at over $9MM, and that doesn't even get you to $24MM.

Brook makes $25MM but again, it doesn't work on the Warriors end there.

[4everwarriors]

Shot themselves in the foot by extending Lopez, hey?

[wadesworld]

Shot themselves in the foot by extending Lopez, hey?

Yeah they could've used that money to...

Oh wait, never mind.  Had they let him walk, they still wouldn't have been able to spend the money anywhere else anyway.  Their only option last year was to resign Middleton and Brook.  Otherwise those guys walk for nothing and it's a huge failure.

Brook will probably be moved.  He has a larger salary so they can bring back a better player, and he's going into his last year of his deal so he will be attractive as a floor spacer, rim protector, and expiring contract.

[The Sultan]

Shot themselves in the foot by extending Lopez, hey?

Not at all. He is their best rim defender and can provide you with scoring inside and out. It was a two year deal that expires after next season.

[4everwarriors]

Rim protectors won't do you much good when the perimeter defense is jackin' up 3's all night. Plus da dude is slow as molasses. In short...not a good fit for this team. Peddle his ass, hey?

[Jockey]

I don't see any way the Bucks can make that work.  Wiggins is set to make over $24MM next year while Bobby is set to make under $12MM.  Neither team can bring in a penny more than what they send out, and neither team can aggregate salaries to make matching salaries work.  Even if you could aggregate salaries, the next highest salary the Bucks have is Pat at over $9MM, and that doesn't even get you to $24MM.

Brook makes $25MM but again, it doesn't work on the Warriors end there.

Yup. No way to make it work. Just give up and play with who you got.

[MUfan12]

I think Brook gets moved in the coming weeks.

The Portis-Wiggins deal won't work as wades said.

Shannon was the guy I wanted for them. Physical wing who can get going offensively.

With Tyler, the Knicks trade for Bridges threw a big wrench into it. They need to preserve every penny of potential space, so they took a stash guy and traded out of the first round.

[Hards Alumni]

Shot themselves in the foot by extending Lopez, hey?

And Middleton... especially, Middleton.

[Hards Alumni]

I couldn't make the Wiggins-Portis trade work in the NBA trade machine any way I tried.

[4everwarriors]

Bucks have missed their window of opportunity, as they are now constituted.
They are old and slow. That's not today's Association. Shoulda peddled some asses a couple years ago, aina?

[Hards Alumni]

Bucks have missed their window of opportunity, as they are now constituted.
They are old and slow. That's not today's Association. Shoulda peddled some asses a couple years ago, aina?

Should have just stayed healthy, really.

[Uncle Rico]

Should have just stayed healthy, really.

4elder is still mad they won a title and Giannis is the biggest thing in Milwaukee

[MU82]

It must suck to be a "fan" of a team and yet be angry that the team's best player - whom you wanted traded - won the team a title.

[BM1090]

Those of you that REALLY hate this pick, what's the reasoning for it?

Sam Vecenie, who is very tied into the Australian League, thinks Johnson will be a good NBA player. Seems like the guy has a great head on his shoulders. Said he went to Australia to learn how to deal with physical play to see how strong he had to get. Knew he wasn't going to play much but wanted to play against pros. The game seems there once the body fills out.

He won't help this year, obviously. But I think he's going to have a long career.

[MU82]

Here's Sam Vecenie's post-draft take on the Bucks/Johnson, and it's not exactly a ringing endorsement ...

I think I was probably higher on A.J. Johnson than anyone in the public sphere rating prospects, and I couldn't get him any higher than No. 32 on my board. Even as a fan of Johnson, I think what the Bucks did tonight was substantially reach on a player that I consider to be a multi-year project while they're in the middle of what they hope is a title chase in 2025.

There were league sources on teams that I spoke with who did not see Johnson as draftable this year (others, like me, had him around the turn of the first round). It's just a remarkable risk to take for a team that has had about as little success in the NBA Draft as any organization in the league since Jon Horst took over. The only one that is a bona fide hit is Donte DiVincenzo, and the organization gave up on him before he came into his own in Golden State and, especially this past season, in New York. Sam Merrill also qualifies as a hit, but they also gave up on him before he went on to become a lethal shooter in Cleveland's rotation. The only real hit here is A.J. Green, an undrafted free agent who looks poised to potentially enter their rotation next season.

Johnson certainly represents a swing for the fences, at least. He's a developmental scoring guard who has some serious wiggle and athleticism. Down the road, I think there are a lot of outcomes where he's a positive player in the NBA. But he also was among the least productive players in the NBL over in Australia this past season. He's under 170 pounds and nowhere near playing in the NBA. I had multiple front-office sources from other teams jokingly speculate to me that the Bucks took Johnson simply so Doc Rivers wouldn't have to worry about playing a rookie in his first full season in charge in Milwaukee.

He's going to require a lot of time and effort developmentally to reach his ceiling. Truly, I hope he gets it from the Bucks. I think Johnson can be a real player. But the Bucks' track record over the last seven years hasn't been particularly strong in that regard. It's tough to buy into this as a sharp pick. It feels like the Bucks overthought this, especially when it's likely Johnson would have been available at No. 33.

[Jockey]

Most sites have it as the worst pick in the 1st round.

[martyconlonontherun]

There were league sources on teams that I spoke with who did not see Johnson as draftable this year (others, like me, had him around the turn of the first round). It's just a remarkable risk to take for a team that has had about as little success in the NBA Draft as any organization in the league since Jon Horst took over. The only one that is a bona fide hit is Donte DiVincenzo, and the organization gave up on him before he came into his own in Golden State and, especially this past season, in New York. Sam Merrill also qualifies as a hit, but they also gave up on him before he went on to become a lethal shooter in Cleveland's rotation. The only real hit here is A.J. Green, an undrafted free agent who looks poised to potentially enter their rotation next season.

I'm not a fan of Horst at all, but this is an absolutely horrible take. Its not that Horst is a bad drafter, he just never had the picks. (i personally hated the Jrue trade where we gave up all our picks for a borderline all-star that overall underperformed for us in the playoffs). Looking at his draft history, outside of DJ Wilson (I am not confident he made that pick), it has been ok.

DDV-They gave up on him because he had a devastating injury that hobbled him when it came for them to crap or get off the pot on an extension. He wanted a long-term 8-figure deal which wasn't reasonable at the time as neither Sacramento or GSW offered it to him. If DDV didn't get injured against Miami, we probably give him that extension and it would've been looked at as a great pick.

Merrill - They traded him in a package for a way better starting SG we had for two years. In that time, Merrill had a couple barely hanging on years with Memphis/Clevland before finally having a break out year at 28 years old by being a 18 mpg player. Bucks absolutely made the right call first drafting Merrill and then trading for Allen.

2023   NBA   2   33   Andrew Jackson Probably better than most 2nd rounders
2023 NBA                  AJ Green Hit
2023   NBA   2   58   Chris Livingston   Seems like a decent pick for the spot
2022   NBA   1   24   MarJon Beauchamp Probably a bad pick, but only 2 guys (Nikola, Nemhard) would have made a difference/clearly better   
2021 NBA 2       54    Sandro - Not a bad pick
2021 NBA 2       60    Some Greek Guy - Bad pick but most GMs arent even watching the draft at that point
2020   NBA   2   45   Jordan Nwora   Pretty Good pick for the spot
2020   NBA   2   60   Sam Merrill
2018   NBA   1   17   Donte DiVincenzo   Good pick
2017   NBA   1   17   D.J. Wilson   Bad pick, was on job for 10 days and seemed like he didn't actually make the pick

[4everwarriors]

Da dude is 6'6" and 165 lbs. Even if he puts on 30 lbs. of muscle, his ass iz gonna bea eaton alive. Terrible pick by da Bucks. Should bea 'nough ta get Horst chit canned, aina?

[wadesworld]

I'm not a fan of Horst at all, but this is an absolutely horrible take. Its not that Horst is a bad drafter, he just never had the picks. (i personally hated the Jrue trade where we gave up all our picks for a borderline all-star that overall underperformed for us in the playoffs). Looking at his draft history, outside of DJ Wilson (I am not confident he made that pick), it has been ok.

DDV-They gave up on him because he had a devastating injury that hobbled him when it came for them to crap or get off the pot on an extension. He wanted a long-term 8-figure deal which wasn't reasonable at the time as neither Sacramento or GSW offered it to him. If DDV didn't get injured against Miami, we probably give him that extension and it would've been looked at as a great pick.

Merrill - They traded him in a package for a way better starting SG we had for two years. In that time, Merrill had a couple barely hanging on years with Memphis/Clevland before finally having a break out year at 28 years old by being a 18 mpg player. Bucks absolutely made the right call first drafting Merrill and then trading for Allen.

2023   NBA   2   33   Andrew Jackson Probably better than most 2nd rounders
2023 NBA                  AJ Green Hit
2023   NBA   2   58   Chris Livingston   Seems like a decent pick for the spot
2022   NBA   1   24   MarJon Beauchamp Probably a bad pick, but only 2 guys (Nikola, Nemhard) would have made a difference/clearly better   
2021 NBA 2       54    Sandro - Not a bad pick
2021 NBA 2       60    Some Greek Guy - Bad pick but most GMs arent even watching the draft at that point
2020   NBA   2   45   Jordan Nwora   Pretty Good pick for the spot
2020   NBA   2   60   Sam Merrill
2018   NBA   1   17   Donte DiVincenzo   Good pick
2017   NBA   1   17   D.J. Wilson   Bad pick, was on job for 10 days and seemed like he didn't actually make the pick

So what you're saying is he's drafted one player who has been a rotational piece in his 7 years with the Bucks?  And that one pick he traded for a way past washed Serge Ibaka to come in and ruin the locker room because they didn't want to give him the contract he wanted, even though he was a restricted free agent so the Bucks could've matched any low offer DDV ended up getting anyway?

Yeah, he's been horrible at drafting, when he has had picks.

The Jrue trade was awesome.  Gave up picks while the Bucks would still be awesome (so late firsts) for the final piece to a title puzzle.  The Dame trade I understand but think Jrue is a better fit on the Bucks.  Horst deserves credit for taking huge swings in trades, which has kept Giannis around.  But other than that, he's been pretty bad at adding pieces around Giannis.

[Uncle Rico]

Da dude is 6'6" and 165 lbs. Even if he puts on 30 lbs. of muscle, his ass iz gonna bea eaton alive. Terrible pick by da Bucks. Should bea 'nough ta get Horst chit canned, aina?

Feeling better about this pick

[martyconlonontherun]

So what you're saying is he's drafted one player who has been a rotational piece in his 7 years with the Bucks? 
No, I'm saying he hasn't had any decent picks. He has had 3 mid-to-late 1st round picks and hit on 1 of them.  That is pretty much average for those picks if you are looking at realistic chances of getting a starter/high-end rotational player with those picks. He's also drafted second rounders that actually stuck around a few years, which is about average

And that one pick he traded for a way past washed Serge Ibaka to come in and ruin the locker room because they didn't want to give him the contract he wanted, even though he was a restricted free agent so the Bucks could've matched any low offer DDV ended up getting anyway?
This is not about drafting. I think he has sucked as a GM.


Yeah, he's been horrible at drafting, when he has had picks.
See above. He is a bad 'drafter' since he traded most of his picks over these 7 years.

The Jrue trade was awesome.  Gave up picks while the Bucks would still be awesome (so late firsts) for the final piece to a title puzzle.  The Dame trade I understand but think Jrue is a better fit on the Bucks.  Horst deserves credit for taking huge swings in trades, which has kept Giannis around.  But other than that, he's been pretty bad at adding pieces around Giannis.
You say the trade was awesome but then you say he sucked adding pieces around Giannis....because he hasn't had any picks or assets since he traded them all for Jrue while also hinting that you late firsts arent valuable....yet we expect him to get starters from the late firsts he did have?

[wadesworld]

I don't expect starters.  But I'd hope that over the course of 7 years he'd be able to hit on more than 1 player that has broken into your rotation.  And the thing is, 3 of the 4 first round picks (including last night) have been total head scratching picks.  Like nobody thought DJ Wilson had any chance to be a good NBA player ever.  MarJon I guess has the physical tools to, but he was considered a big reach when the Bucks made that pick.  AJ Johnson is considered a HUGE reach at 23.  Heck, even Divenenzo was considered a reach, being drafted based mainly off of one NCAA Tournament run.  In my opinion, when you figured out that Giannis was a true superstar, it was time to stop taking swings on the biggest upside guys, and find guys who fit next to Giannis and will be able to contribute.  Horst seems to just swing for the fences on every pick.

Horst is so bad at drafting that I literally would rather he pulls Bill Simmons's move and drafts Bronny James at 33.  Hold him hostage and force the Lakers to give up a future first to get him on their roster.

[Pakuni]

Feeling better about this pick

He doesn't watch much NBA if he thinks 6'6", 195 is too small.

[The Sultan]

Horst was great adding pieces for the championship team. Lopez, Connaughton, Portis and Tucker were all added under his watch.

And I think trading Sam Merrill for Grayson Allen wasn't the worst idea in the world. And the DDV trade for Ibaka was made solely because Brook Lopez was injured.

So I don't really buy that he's been "bad" at adding pieces around Giannis. He was very good at it...then made a couple bad deals. The whole Dame thing is TBD.

But I think his drafting is way too long on hoping for potential and not just drafting solid guys.

[wadesworld]

He doesn't watch much NBA if he thinks 6'6", 195 is too small.

To be fair, he's 6'5" 167 lbs.