The Future of Cities

[muwarrior69]

First of all, Marquette isn't moving. Ever.

Second, Marquette's mission is to Milwaukee, Wisconsin and the Midwest first. Marquette's commitment to the inner city is an essential part of the Jesuit mission of Men and Women for Others. The notion of Marquette on some leafy green campus in Mequon or Cudahy is theoretically appealing to suburbanites but not in keeping with who we are.

Third, if Marquette opens a campus in Nashville, I'll literally die! One of the appeals to Marquette way back when was they were NOT Nashville and that Milwaukee was a different world than Nashville. Besides, you really expect to compete for students in Nashville? A Jesuit Catholic university there is OUT OF ITS ELEMENT!!!!!

Not to mention it is also one of Milwaukee's largest employers.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Even if the data is correct, Illinois Policy is not cite worthy.

That's idiotic, even from you.

[brewcity77]

The above is why you should not use ChatGPT as a resource, and apparently, you can't wiki it either. Didn't check them all, but:

Drexel's satellite campus in Sacramento closed in 2015. It failed, because Drexel is known in Philly...not Sacramento.

This thread is galactically stupid on many levels, but trying to back up data with ChatGPT, a source that is known to lie and make up information at times, just takes it to the next level. I thought talking Marquette moving to Orlando or Nashville was dumb, but using that as supporting evidence is even worse.

Oh well...at least reading through this is humorous.

[lawdog77]

This thread is galactically stupid on many levels, but trying to back up data with ChatGPT, a source that is known to lie and make up information at times, just takes it to the next level. I thought talking Marquette moving to Orlando or Nashville was dumb, but using that as supporting evidence is even worse.

Oh well...at least reading through this is humorous.

C'mon the obvious new location for Marquette in in the UP

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So, to revise the question for you. Do you fear that MU has to think about managing a long-term decline? Or can it transcend the population growth of its area (Chicago/Milwaukee)

Marquette, and every other school in the midwest, has already started to think about the demographic decline in the next decade.

Marquette will close before it leaves Milwaukee.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

C'mon the obvious new location for Marquette in in the UP

I thought it was already there? 
At least that's what people have been telling me for 35 years that they saw my school on the Weather Channel.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Rents in Chicago are down in the last year.

https://www.renthop.com/average-rent-in/chicago-il

Chicago is more than a handful of apartment buildings in Fulton Market.

Rents in many places are slowing or falling because they rocketed up the previous two years at unsustainable levels.

[Not A Serious Person]

This thread is galactically stupid on many levels, but trying to back up data with ChatGPT, a source that is known to lie and make up information at times, just takes it to the next level. I thought talking Marquette moving to Orlando or Nashville was dumb, but using that as supporting evidence is even worse.

Oh well...at least reading through this is humorous.

What's stupid about asking what MU does in an area with a declining population?

Ok, they will never move. That was an idea. What is next, budget cuts, program closures, and school closures?

Or do you believe MU can transcend the areas failing and thrive despite it like Washington University in St. Louis has thrived despite that city dying?

[Not A Serious Person]

Marquette, and every other school in the midwest, has already started to think about the demographic decline in the next decade.

Marquette will close before it leaves Milwaukee.

And how do they plan on handling it? What do you think they should do?

[tower912]

Cities will be fine.   They will continue to be the hubs of culture and commerce, attracting the young dreamers.   Who will one day get old and write and quote articles pondering the future of cities.

[jficke13]

This thread is galactically stupid on many levels, but trying to back up data with ChatGPT, a source that is known to lie and make up information at times, just takes it to the next level. I thought talking Marquette moving to Orlando or Nashville was dumb, but using that as supporting evidence is even worse.

Oh well...at least reading through this is humorous.

Negative. It makes up information exclusively. It is designed to produce linked language that sounds correct by predicting based on a large data set what words are statistically most likely to go together in what order in response to a prompt. It is not designed to produce accuracy, but to produce something that sounds like accuracy. Reporting on what it is (oh no it's AI!) and what it can do (look out Google, it's going to replace search!) have done a huge disservice to people's understanding of what LLMs are, what they are capable of, and how they work.

[Not A Serious Person]

Cities will be fine.   They will continue to be the hubs of culture and commerce, attracting the young dreamers.   Who will one day get old and write and quote articles pondering the future of cities.

Except that is no longer happening in northern cities. Populations are declining. Companies are leaving, and cultural activities are diminishing.

Young dreams are now largely white privileged kids around the third ward. That cannot support the entire city. It is a fun period before they leave and get serious about life.

[Uncle Rico]

Cities will be fine.   They will continue to be the hubs of culture and commerce, attracting the young dreamers.   Who will one day get old and write and quote articles pondering the future of cities.

🎶 A woman came up to me and said
"I'd like to poison your mind
With wrong ideas that appeal to you
Though I am not unkind"
She looked at me, I looked at something
Written across her scalp
And these are the words that it faintly said
As I tried to call for help
There's only one thing that I know how to do well
And I've often been told that you only can do
What you know how to do well
And that's be you,
Be what you're like,
Be like yourself,
And so I'm having a wonderful time
But I'd rather be whistling in the dark
Whistling in the dark
Whistling in the dark
Whistling in the dark
Whistling in the dark
Whistling in the dark
There's only one thing that I like
And that is whistling in the dark 🎶

[dgies9156]

Back to our regularly scheduled program ... 

Urban Midwestern cities are in decline for two reasons: Air conditioning and logistics.

A little background:

Air Conditioning -- As a very young youngster, I lived in Nashville. Summers there were HOT HOT HOT. Until 1962, we never had air conditioning. It was relatively rare for any home to have air conditioning, which became widely available in the 1950s. Before air conditioning, Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Charlotte, Memphis and Nashville all were relatively small cities. We built a home in 1964 that had central air conditioning. It was about that time that new houses all had it -- and the south rose again!

Logistics -- Most of the large Midwestern and Eastern Cities began as transportation hubs. Chicago, for example, was an absolutely wonderful place to build a railroad. There were relatively few impediments (rivers, mountains, land below sea level) to constrain construction of railroads, classification yards, depots and repair facilities. The flatness of the "Water Level Route" between New York and Chicago was a large reason why the NYC made cities like Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit and Chicago (along with access to water and natural resources).

Now fast forward to the 1960s. The development of the interstate highway system changed the way goods were moved. What had gone by rail now could be moved more quickly by truck. Less-than-carload shipments by rail almost ceased and trains were restricted to moving bulk goods. The interstate system also allowed more effective placement of manufacturing plants in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, the Carolinas and yes, even the evil empire of Florida. Think about the reason the Penn Central went bankrupt -- it's the same reason why Midwestern and Northeastern cities are shrinking -- no industry and no competitive advantages against newer locales. Companies moved out as business and industry had far more options than the traditional Water Level Route and the parallel Pennsylvania Railroad line.

When the jobs moved, those that could, did!

One final thought: imagine US Steel wanted to build a new steel plant to effectively replace South Works. Now imagine for some strange reason US Steel wanted the plant in Chicago! Assuming there was a plot of land large enough on which to build the plant, the process of permitting and constructing would be a nightmare. NIMBYs and cultural warriors would be screaming about locating the plant in Chicago, instead of say Winnetka or Kenilworth. Environmental warriors would be screaming about the carbon footprint of the plant. The city would have its hands out and the alderwoman from the ward in which the plant was located would somehow want US Steel to find executive jobs for every constituent who voted for her in the last election.

If you don't believe me -- and I know many of you won't -- look at the difficulty the Norfolk Southern has had in expanding its rail yard in the Englewood neighborhood of Chicago. If that was Tennessee or North Carolina, the project would have been completed a half decade ago!

[tower912]

Except that is no longer happening in northern cities. Populations are declining. Companies are leaving, and cultural activities are diminishing.

Young dreams are now largely white privileged kids around the third ward. That cannot support the entire city. It is a fun period before they leave and get serious about life.

And in a generation, half of Florida will be underwater Arizona and Texas will be uninhabitable.    There are always headwinds and challenges.   Hopefully, the younger generations, having been left a sh!t sandwich by their elders, actually work the problem instead of whining and kicking the can down the road.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

And how do they plan on handling it? What do you think they should do?

I've answered this multiple times in multiple topics.

[dgies9156]

And in a generation, half of Florida will be underwater.

You really believe this?

Really?

Half of Florida already is underwater -- and not the good kind that is swampy and has lots of alligators. Back during the last ice age, the Florida peninsula was twice its current size. But as the ice caps melted, the a good hunk of the old peninsula was absorbed. That may happen further in the future but it's going to take a whole lot longer than any of us have in lifespan.

Oh and a good hunk of the east coast will be underwater too!

I'm betting against it! I live on a barrier island off the coast of Florida just north of Vero Beach.

[tower912]

I am more concerned about it than I am the future of cities in the upper midwest.

[MU82]

Back to our regularly scheduled program ... 

Urban Midwestern cities are in decline for two reasons: Air conditioning and logistics.

A little background:

Air Conditioning -- As a very young youngster, I lived in Nashville. Summers there were HOT HOT HOT. Until 1962, we never had air conditioning. It was relatively rare for any home to have air conditioning, which became widely available in the 1950s. Before air conditioning, Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Charlotte, Memphis and Nashville all were relatively small cities. We built a home in 1964 that had central air conditioning. It was about that time that new houses all had it -- and the south rose again!

Logistics -- Most of the large Midwestern and Eastern Cities began as transportation hubs. Chicago, for example, was an absolutely wonderful place to build a railroad. There were relatively few impediments (rivers, mountains, land below sea level) to constrain construction of railroads, classification yards, depots and repair facilities. The flatness of the "Water Level Route" between New York and Chicago was a large reason why the NYC made cities like Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit and Chicago (along with access to water and natural resources).

Now fast forward to the 1960s. The development of the interstate highway system changed the way goods were moved. What had gone by rail now could be moved more quickly by truck. Less-than-carload shipments by rail almost ceased and trains were restricted to moving bulk goods. The interstate system also allowed more effective placement of manufacturing plants in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, the Carolinas and yes, even the evil empire of Florida. Think about the reason the Penn Central went bankrupt -- it's the same reason why Midwestern and Northeastern cities are shrinking -- no industry and no competitive advantages against newer locales. Companies moved out as business and industry had far more options than the traditional Water Level Route and the parallel Pennsylvania Railroad line.

When the jobs moved, those that could, did!

One final thought: imagine US Steel wanted to build a new steel plant to effectively replace South Works. Now imagine for some strange reason US Steel wanted the plant in Chicago! Assuming there was a plot of land large enough on which to build the plant, the process of permitting and constructing would be a nightmare. NIMBYs and cultural warriors would be screaming about locating the plant in Chicago, instead of say Winnetka or Kenilworth. Environmental warriors would be screaming about the carbon footprint of the plant. The city would have its hands out and the alderwoman from the ward in which the plant was located would somehow want US Steel to find executive jobs for every constituent who voted for her in the last election.

If you don't believe me -- and I know many of you won't -- look at the difficulty the Norfolk Southern has had in expanding its rail yard in the Englewood neighborhood of Chicago. If that was Tennessee or North Carolina, the project would have been completed a half decade ago!

There would be significant NIMBY pushback on locating a new steel plant in Charlotte or any of NC's other well-populated areas. Probably less so in Bumblefork, though there probably still would be some.

Everyone in every state wants to bring in new business and the jobs that go with it. But few people in any state, including Tennessee and North Carolina,  want to live anywhere near large industrial operations such as steel plants.

We like clean water here in NC, too.

[Uncle Rico]

I am more concerned about it than I am the future of cities in the upper midwest.

Maybe Miami should open a satellite campus in Detroit?

[dgies9156]

There would be significant NIMBY pushback on locating a new steel plant in Charlotte or any of NC's other well-populated areas. Probably less so in Bumblefork, though there probably still would be some.

Everyone in every state wants to bring in new business and the jobs that go with it. But few people in any state, including Tennessee and North Carolina,  want to live anywhere near large industrial operations such as steel plants.

We like clean water here in NC, too.

Been to Smyrna, Tennessee lately? Or Spring Hill, Tennessee?

Smyrna is just south of the Davidson/Rutherford County Line in Rutherford. It was formerly the home of Seward Air Force Base, which closed around 1971. It was a small town controlled by the Ridley Family until Patriarch Sam went to prison for acting consistent with a Chicago politician.

In 1980, Nissan announced it would build a massive automobile assembly complex just south of the old air base. By 1982, the plant was up and running. Today, the Interstate 24 corridor between Nashville and Murfreesboro (about 30 miles long and part of the Nashville MSA) is one of the fastest growing industrial corridors in America -- and it's also more heavily populated than ever. Smyrna is a small city and likely one of the 10 to 15 largest in Tennessee.

And, I won't even start on Spring Hill! Also part of the Nashville MSA.

So yes, people do live near large industrial plants.

P.S. -- My Father, a Marquette Engineer, spent a good chunk of his life helping ensure Nashville and vicinity had clean water!

[MU82]

Been to Smyrna, Tennessee lately? Or Spring Hill, Tennessee?

Smyrna is just south of the Davidson/Rutherford County Line in Rutherford. It was formerly the home of Seward Air Force Base, which closed around 1971. It was a small town controlled by the Ridley Family until Patriarch Sam went to prison for acting consistent with a Chicago politician.

In 1980, Nissan announced it would build a massive automobile assembly complex just south of the old air base. By 1982, the plant was up and running. Today, the Interstate 24 corridor between Nashville and Murfreesboro (about 30 miles long and part of the Nashville MSA) is one of the fastest growing industrial corridors in America -- and it's also more heavily populated than ever. Smyrna is a small city and likely one of the 10 to 15 largest in Tennessee.

And, I won't even start on Spring Hill! Also part of the Nashville MSA.

So yes, people do live near large industrial plants.

P.S. -- My Father, a Marquette Engineer, spent a good chunk of his life helping ensure Nashville and vicinity had clean water!

And I'm telling you that if a corporation tried to open a steel plant anywhere near any even semi-populous part of the greater Charlotte metro area, you'd hear the NIMBYs if you opened your window in Florida.

Also, 1982 is a long time ago and Nashville has grown a lot since then. I'm guessing most decent neighborhoods would fight like crazy to keep any large industrial complex far away.

Glad to hear your dad fought to help keep water clean. Hearing about places where it's not drinkable due to industrial pollution is beyond sad.

[Pakuni]

Which will die first, cities or the NFL?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Which will die first, cities or the NFL?

Or Apple stock?

[Uncle Rico]

Or Apple stock?

Or Disney?