Bracketology Thread 2023

[withoutbias]

As someone Elon obsessively stalks and says my posts have nothing to do with the topic on hand, following this thread is very funny. Irony personified.

Maybe THIS username will convince the Scoop community he knows ball. He did dunk in high school, of course.

[Scoop Snoop]

As someone Elon obsessively stalks and says my posts have nothing to do with the topic on hand, following this thread is very funny. Irony personified.

Maybe THIS username will convince the Scoop community he knows ball. He did dunk in high school, of course.

  The only dunking I ever have done is dunking a biscotti in my coffee.

OK, back to the topic. I like Oldgym's Shaka vs. VCU in round 2. Like he said, it would be fun.

[tower912]

I've dunked more than my share of chips from all around the green.

[MU86NC]

I've dunked more than my share of chips from all around the green.

Pepsi owns Frito Lay... Tostitos and Guacamole!  I'm sure you have...

[tower912]

Different kind of chips, but I like where you're coming from.

[Tha Hound]

Are you sure that it's not a great argument?

I think you'd agree that any earlier we weren't getting Shaka. Maybe we would have gotten someone as good or better, but what do you think the likelihood of that would be? Certainly less than 50%. Personally I think it would be less than 5% given how perfectly Shaka seems to fit here. Maybe he'll prove that wrong on the future but my confidence in MUBB is at an all time high.

Of course that's made with the benefit of hindsight but this is how big boys fire a coach. You fire a coach when you have someone better lined up to replace him. In MUs case, it was Porter Moser. They knew the absolute worst they would do was Porter Moser who would have been an improvement overr Wojo. Luckily. Shaka made himself available and here we are.

The big boys do not wait 7 years to fire an atrocious coach.

[brewcity77]

I don't have a dog in this fight but in my opinion, "thank god we hung on to an underperforming, losing coach a whole 7 years because look how it turned out timing-wise!" isn't a great argument

I mean...at the end of the day we fired him at the first logical opportunity. Consider the options...

• 2015: Not firing a coach after year one with a McD's AA coming in.
  
• 2016: Not firing a coach after year two considering the improvement.
  
• 2017: The trajectory was actually pretty good, not firing a coach post NCAA appearance.
  
• 2018: We missed the tourney, but were bringing back what looked like a really good team with optimism around the program.
  
• 2019: Okay, the end sucked, but we had been ranked top-10, had the program's all-time scorer, and even after the Hausers weren't going to cut the cord yet. I think Marquette was overly generous in the extension they gave, but they had to give an extension to allow Wojo to recruit (and the 2020 class was great on paper).
  
• 2020: Yes, we collapsed again, but COVID basically put all firings on hold. We would've made the tourney, no way to know how it would've ended, and the world was financially unstable. It just wasn't an option.
  
• 2021: Second losing record, he got fired.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The big boys do not wait 7 years to fire an atrocious coach.

They don't. They do wait until either*:
a. There are off the court issues
b. He misses the NCAAT

*Unless you're Texas in which case you will hire a guy who you will eventually run off after 6 years of no NCAAT wins and then replace that guy with woman beater while the guy you fired takes Tennessee to the current #1 team on KenPom

[MU82]

I mean...at the end of the day we fired him at the first logical opportunity. Consider the options...

• 2015: Not firing a coach after year one with a McD's AA coming in.
  
• 2016: Not firing a coach after year two considering the improvement.
  
• 2017: The trajectory was actually pretty good, not firing a coach post NCAA appearance.
  
• 2018: We missed the tourney, but were bringing back what looked like a really good team with optimism around the program.
  
• 2019: Okay, the end sucked, but we had been ranked top-10, had the program's all-time scorer, and even after the Hausers weren't going to cut the cord yet. I think Marquette was overly generous in the extension they gave, but they had to give an extension to allow Wojo to recruit (and the 2020 class was great on paper).
  
• 2020: Yes, we collapsed again, but COVID basically put all firings on hold. We would've made the tourney, no way to know how it would've ended, and the world was financially unstable. It just wasn't an option.
  
• 2021: Second losing record, he got fired.

This is similar to things I've said.

The single best argument is that we never should have hired Wojo in the first place, but Shaka wasn't going to Marquette then -- we tried -- and who knows if the guy we hired would have been better or worse. The names at the time sure didn't do any better where they ended up ... which of course doesn't mean they wouldn't have done better at Marquette. Or worse.

Those who say they "knew" Wojo couldn't coach 10 games in or 2 years in or whatever, even if we believe them no sanely run program is going to fire a guy in that time frame and given what the situation was in the program.

The first time to have even thought about it would have been after the step-backward 2017-18 season, and I certainly get the argument for after the Hausers bolted ... though that still would have been a pretty bold firing.

Anyhoo, it's sure nice to see Scoop is litigating this for only the 8,422nd time, this time in the Bracketology thread!

[Galway Eagle]

They don't. They do wait until either*:
a. There are off the court issues
b. He misses the NCAAT

*Unless you're Texas in which case you will hire a guy who you will eventually run off after 6 years of no NCAAT wins and then replace that guy with woman beater while the guy you fired takes Tennessee to the current #1 team on KenPom

Wow I didn't realize that but it's hilarious Texas has fired two coaches that have top 10 teams in Kenpom.

[Uncle Rico]

Yes

[tower912]

What happened to that 2020 class?

[THRILLHO]

Those who say they "knew" Wojo couldn't coach 10 games in or 2 years in or whatever, even if we believe them no sanely run program is going to fire a guy in that time frame and given what the situation was in the program.

Yeah, and even people who recognized early that he wasn't a huge value adder as an X's and O's coach might have appreciated his recruiting ability and thought that had a chance to be enough. If we had squeezed out one nice tourney run with the Howard/Hauser team, maybe the recruiting goes up yet another level and the program becomes successful through sheer talent accumulation.

[brewcity77]

What happened to that 2020 class?

Dawson at Minnesota, Justin declared early, Oso might be the best collegian of them all.

[Goose]

I can't speak for Elon or anyone else, but the fact that Wojo could not coach a lick is in my rearview mirror. As TAMU said, no last year of Wojo, likely no Shaka.

[willie warrior]

The big boys do not wait 7 years to fire an atrocious coach.

But MU did. And many did not want that to happen.

[Uncle Rico]

But MU did. And many did not want that to happen.

It cost Marquette the chance to get Brian Wardle

[willie warrior]

Nothing alleged about it Willie. My title was granted to me by Goose, the Grand Poobah of the Meat Eaters.

I know it is easy to mistake optimism for support when one tends towards pessimism. When it comes to things outside my control (such as Marquette basketball) I tend towards optimism. Even when a player, coach, or team is not doing well, I'd rather hope for improvement than wallow. This was posted on here not long ago, agree with every word: https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1615464939568734214

If you go through my old posts, you won't find any posts declaring Wojo a genius or claiming that he would take us to the promised land. You'll just find hope for improvement and me repeatedly maintaining that Wojo hadn't done enough to get fired until the middle of year 7...which was the year he got fired. And while it was a painful process, it ended up being for the best. No way we get Shaka if we fire Wojo any sooner. Maybe we would have gotten someone better but I doubt it. Shaka and MU seem like the perfect marriage.

You mentioned the too much money argument. I did say something along those lines in year 7 but I also gave a caveat every time I said it. It was too much money for MU. If a donor or donors stepped in to pay the buyout than he would be fired. That's what happened. If that had happened, Wojo would have been our coach last season.

Thank God MU pulled the trigger or cut bait, at least two years too late, on Wojo. But we have the right guy now and do not need a 7 year probationary period to figure that out. Wojos tenure was a train wreck, and Hausergate proved that out.

[Goose]

Rico

That it did and caused disappointment for some fellow scoopers. Maybe they can sign him the next time there is a vacancy. Hopefully, I will be too old to care.

[Uncle Rico]

Rico

That it did and caused disappointment for some fellow scoopers. Maybe they can sign him the next time there is a vacancy. Hopefully, I will be too old to care.

Me and you both

[Skatastrophy]

I'm surprised that Wojo and Stan Johnson couldn't find an Xs and Os guy. That, without significant ego clashing, should have led to some excellent teams.

Instead it was 6 years of watching hero ball chucking. Historic hero ball chucking, but hero ball none the less.

[withoutbias]

I can't speak for Elon or anyone else, but the fact that Wojo could not coach a lick is in my rearview mirror. As TAMU said, no last year of Wojo, likely no Shaka.

The good thing is Elon doesn't need you to speak for him. His posts speak for themselves. Wojo being unable to coach is most definitely not in the rear view mirror for him. It's the train that he is speeding directly into head on. Hijacked threads galore with the same old stuff that has had him banned 4? 5? Times here. But he's just the victim and if the mods knew ball he'd still be in his first username.

[wisblue]

Maybe we should start a new bracketology thread to discuss the bracket.

[MU82]

Maybe we should start a new bracketology thread to discuss the bracket.

Sorry ... 90% of threads have to turn into "Wojo sucks." It's the Scoop Rule.

[MarquetteMike1977]

Joe Lunardi ESPN had Marquette as the Top 4 Seed in his S Curve before Mondays games.

https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1620193061308596225?s=46&t=QyxTYM5ylzhSV2a5fUYomw