More conference realignment talk

[MurphysTillClose]

Ok. So you're agreeing with my sentiment that it takes one call to the VU, MU or CU athletic department to leave. Brew explained it well that the dollars do not equal success

Quick follow up with you here. How's Ed doing with the upcoming divorce? Think it was worth it? 

[DFW HOYA]

Ok. So you're agreeing with my sentiment that it takes one call to the VU, MU or CU athletic department to leave. Brew explained it well that the dollars do not equal success

The environment is an accelerant to presidents that do not maintain or value commitment. Or as Donna Shalala, the president of Miami, told her fellow Big East presidents in 2003, "We're committed to the Big East. You have our word."

[GoFastAndWin]

I think many here would be surprised at the proclivities of some of the private equity investors getting involved in NIL after the recent landmark decision. They don't necessarily align with the traditional powerhouse programs. Some investors are even fans of programs at universities they didn't attend. Imagine that. Think Disruptor mentality. Think Grand Canyon University for one or Florida Atlantic for two. I can tell you that although I'm even lesser than a nobody, I have been privy through my work to discussions along the lines of "loving nothing more than seeing that arrogant coach (blankety blank) lose a recruit to (insert nouveau riche school here)". Sure this kind of thing sounds sketchy, but one should view this through a lens of how much the system has truly reeked and worked in favor of the good ole boy network for years. And I can tell you that there are some big players who with one phone call can and will crown an obscure prince King almost overnight.

[Scoop Snoop]

Ok. So you're agreeing with my sentiment that it takes one call to the VU, MU or CU athletic department to leave. Brew explained it well that the dollars do not equal success

To me, it is not so much of a question of whether or not BE members would accept an invite to the P4. It's a question as to whether or not the P4 would want bball only members. You seem convinced that they will, and therefore the BE is doomed. At least that's my take from your posts. And your certainty regarding this path forward is where you are getting pushback. 

UCONN is different because the theory is that their FB program can be turned around. As Mr. Neisen has pointed out with his attachment, the deal is not certain to be approved. And that's with an alleged  FB program.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Ok. So you're agreeing with my sentiment that it takes one call to the VU, MU or CU athletic department to leave. Brew explained it well that the dollars do not equal success

I think if the B12 wanted to add a couple basketball members, and one of them was Marquette, they would and should take the invite. (I don't think this is going to happen by the way.)

Yes money doesn't equal success, but I can only think of one school - Notre Dame - who has turned down an invitation to upgrade their conference affiliation. And they are already affiliated with the ACC in all sports but football.

I doubt there is a single school that regrets joining the P4. I doubt there is a single school that regrets joining the SEC or B10. Yeah a couple years ago Nebraska got snippy, but do you think they regret it now? Not a chance. Do you think Maryland wishes they were back in the ACC? Nope.

You upgrade when you can and let the future unveil itself.

[WhiteTrash]

I think many here would be surprised at the proclivities of some of the private equity investors getting involved in NIL after the recent landmark decision. They don't necessarily align with the traditional powerhouse programs. Some investors are even fans of programs at universities they didn't attend. Imagine that. Think Disruptor mentality. Think Grand Canyon University for one or Florida Atlantic for two. I can tell you that although I'm even lesser than a nobody, I have been privy through my work to discussions along the lines of "loving nothing more than seeing that arrogant coach (blankety blank) lose a recruit to (insert nouveau riche school here)". Sure this kind of thing sounds sketchy, but one should view this through a lens of how much the system has truly reeked and worked in favor of the good ole boy network for years. And I can tell you that there are some big players who with one phone call can and will crown an obscure prince King almost overnight.

One person's "sketchy" is another's (players) music to one's ears. To me it all sounds like regular business especially in pro sports.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Fox opposes the UConn to B12 move and would not reopen their contract with the B12 to make that happen.

https://awfulannouncing.com/fox/fox-opposes-uconn-joining-big-12.html

[WhiteTrash]

Fox opposes the UConn to B12 move and would not reopen their contract with the B12 to make that happen.

https://awfulannouncing.com/fox/fox-opposes-uconn-joining-big-12.html

Well, that was fun while it lasted.

IMHO, UCONN has a duty to itself to explore a better situation for it's football. They will leave someday but, as many have pointed out, now is not the time considering the ACC situation and now Fox saying 'no'.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What do people think "the ACC situation" means? These schools aren't going to just drop football. They are going to lose a couple members, invite a couple more, and move on. One of those members might be UConn, but the B12 is a better place for any school than the future ACC will be.

[WhiteTrash]

What do people think "the ACC situation" means? These schools aren't going to just drop football. They are going to lose a couple members, invite a couple more, and move on. One of those members might be UConn, but the B12 is a better place for any school than the future ACC will be.

Speaking for myself, you explanation of the "ACC situation" is exactly what I was referring to. I think most of the B12 presidents and it's media partners would like to see if more attractive schools come "in play" prior to moving on UCONN. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Speaking for myself, you explanation of the "ACC situation" is exactly what I was referring to. I think most of the B12 presidents and it's media partners would like to see if more attractive schools come "in play" prior to moving on UCONN. 

OK. That makes sense.

[brewcity77]

Fox opposes the UConn to B12 move and would not reopen their contract with the B12 to make that happen.

https://awfulannouncing.com/fox/fox-opposes-uconn-joining-big-12.html

That's probably more significant than what any individual president would say.

And I agree Marquette or any other Big East school would take the invite. Obviously UConn has pushed to get into the ACC and B12, I recall Georgetown and Nova sniffing around basketball-only invites to the ACC, the question for me isn't whether they would or even if financially they should, but more so to the fan experience in the aftermath.

Nebraska and Maryland from an administrative perspective probably don't regret their decisions. The checks clear, the bank accounts are full. But as a program, where are they? Nebraska football hasn't finished a season ranked in a decade and has one winning campaign in the last nine. Their basketball was never much to write home about, but it's not like the Big 10 has elevated them. Maryland football hasn't had a winning B10 record in their 10 years in the league. Their basketball program has one S16 in 9 years and one top-4 NCAA seed, a far cry from where Gary Williams had them.

Maybe it's all coaching or bad hires, maybe it was an inevitable shift, but in terms of athletic departments, the bell cow programs have not been elevated by these moves. Maybe UConn would be different, but if we look 10 years down the line, I think it's more likely they are talking about the good old Big East days than how happy they are as an upper-middle class member of the Big 12, playing UCF, West Virginia, and Cincinnati in their division with occasional games against Houston and Arizona.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

That's probably more significant than what any individual president would say.

And I agree Marquette or any other Big East school would take the invite. Obviously UConn has pushed to get into the ACC and B12, I recall Georgetown and Nova sniffing around basketball-only invites to the ACC, the question for me isn't whether they would or even if financially they should, but more so to the fan experience in the aftermath.

Nebraska and Maryland from an administrative perspective probably don't regret their decisions. The checks clear, the bank accounts are full. But as a program, where are they? Nebraska football hasn't finished a season ranked in a decade and has one winning campaign in the last nine. Their basketball was never much to write home about, but it's not like the Big 10 has elevated them. Maryland football hasn't had a winning B10 record in their 10 years in the league. Their basketball program has one S16 in 9 years and one top-4 NCAA seed, a far cry from where Gary Williams had them.

Maybe it's all coaching or bad hires, maybe it was an inevitable shift, but in terms of athletic departments, the bell cow programs have not been elevated by these moves. Maybe UConn would be different, but if we look 10 years down the line, I think it's more likely they are talking about the good old Big East days than how happy they are as an upper-middle class member of the Big 12, playing UCF, West Virginia, and Cincinnati in their division with occasional games against Houston and Arizona.

Oh I don't disagree with you at all regarding the success and fan experience. The list of schools that have done well with their "step up" over the last couple of decades is pretty small.

Utah is probably the best example. They won a couple football championships and a women's basketball regular season in the Pac 12.

A couple others of note:

**Missouri made a couple SEC championship game appearances.
**Pitt won the ACC in football.

But really that's been about it.

[WhiteTrash]

That's probably more significant than what any individual president would say.

And I agree Marquette or any other Big East school would take the invite. Obviously UConn has pushed to get into the ACC and B12, I recall Georgetown and Nova sniffing around basketball-only invites to the ACC, the question for me isn't whether they would or even if financially they should, but more so to the fan experience in the aftermath.

Nebraska and Maryland from an administrative perspective probably don't regret their decisions. The checks clear, the bank accounts are full. But as a program, where are they? Nebraska football hasn't finished a season ranked in a decade and has one winning campaign in the last nine. Their basketball was never much to write home about, but it's not like the Big 10 has elevated them. Maryland football hasn't had a winning B10 record in their 10 years in the league. Their basketball program has one S16 in 9 years and one top-4 NCAA seed, a far cry from where Gary Williams had them.

Maybe it's all coaching or bad hires, maybe it was an inevitable shift, but in terms of athletic departments, the bell cow programs have not been elevated by these moves. Maybe UConn would be different, but if we look 10 years down the line, I think it's more likely they are talking about the good old Big East days than how happy they are as an upper-middle class member of the Big 12, playing UCF, West Virginia, and Cincinnati in their division with occasional games against Houston and Arizona.

With the consolidation, the opportunities to win or finish in the top half of a league are reduced. I think schools like Illinois, Michigan State, Wisconsin, etc. truly value the B10 and are in a great place but the opportunities to win the B10 are trending close to zero as the conference grows. If you're one of those schools, you need Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, USC, Oregon and Washington to all have off years in the same year. Not very likely.

[Galway Eagle]

Miami basketball has done well since they left the Big East or at least since they snagged Larranga.

Rutgers has done better with BBall since joining the B1G, hard not to have been better as only DePaul was below them.

[Billy Hoyle]

That's probably more significant than what any individual president would say.

Nebraska and Maryland from an administrative perspective probably don't regret their decisions. The checks clear, the bank accounts are full. But as a program, where are they? Nebraska football hasn't finished a season ranked in a decade and has one winning campaign in the last nine. Their basketball was never much to write home about, but it's not like the Big 10 has elevated them. Maryland football hasn't had a winning B10 record in their 10 years in the league. Their basketball program has one S16 in 9 years and one top-4 NCAA seed, a far cry from where Gary Williams had them.

Football has struggled (not that Maryland football was ever anything to write home about) but from an overall athletics (especially financially) and institutional perspective, Maryland moving to the Big Ten has been a success. Trickle-down economics at its finest.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5605472/2024/07/02/maryland-big-ten-conference-realignment/

Maryland has become a successful broad-based athletics department with 49 league titles over that decade, ranking behind only Ohio State and Michigan. The university's proximity to Capitol Hill provides Big Ten members with a nearby lobbying ally, and the shared academic benefits in research and foreign study among the membership are profound.

[TallTitan34]

If the back-to-back national champion with six titles and football is struggling to get an invite, I doubt there is serious interest from any power conference in any of the other Big East teams.

[tower912]

Preach.   

[wadesworld]

How long does the Big Twelve's contract with Fox go?  Because UCONN's football program wouldn't be added to the Big 12 until 2031 anyway.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What do people think "the ACC situation" means? These schools aren't going to just drop football. They are going to lose a couple members, invite a couple more, and move on.

Probably but I wouldn't say it's a guarentee. I can see a world where the P2.5 create their own division and leave everyone else behind.  If the ACC becomes the eqivilent of an FCS league,  i could see schools dropping football or downsizing it.

I can also see a world where the ACC leftovers and the BEast come together to form a new conference with football and non football members.

Neither probably happens, but 10 years ago the PAC 12 dissolving probably doesnt happen either. I am comfortable saying that in 10 years,  it is more likely that the ACC is a midmajor or gone than it is that they are still a power conference.

[Scoop Snoop]

With the caveat that this is pure speculation on my part...

I wonder if Val avoided any quibbles in the Fox contract so that it would be a done deal before the B12/UCONN invite became public. I get that Fox not liking the deal pretty much sinks it and that the BE/Fox contract is not front and center in all of this, but still...

Val's and Yormark's MOs are polar opposites. Quiet, behind the scenes vs. in-your-face.

[Scoop Snoop]

Probably but I wouldn't say it's a guarentee. I can see a world where the P2.5 create their own division and leave everyone else behind.  If the ACC becomes the eqivilent of an FCS league,  i could see schools dropping football or downsizing it.

I can also see a world where the ACC leftovers and the BEast come together to form a new conference with football and non football members.

Neither probably happens, but 10 years ago the PAC 12 dissolving probably doesnt happen either. I am comfortable saying that in 10 years,  it is more likely that the ACC is a midmajor or gone than it is that they are still a power conference.

So true regarding the "Conference of Champions." RIP, Bill Walton. You make a very good case for future ACC ...umm.."problems".

[JakeBarnes]

With the caveat that this is pure speculation on my part...

I wonder if Val avoided any quibbles in the Fox contract so that it would be a done deal before the B12/UCONN invite became public. I get that Fox not liking the deal pretty much sinks it and that the BE/Fox contract is not front and center in all of this, but still...

Val's and Yormark's MOs are polar opposites. Quiet, behind the scenes vs. in-your-face.

I have a lot of faith in Val getting the Big East brand and teams to where they need to be. She's made a lot of right moves so far.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Probably but I wouldn't say it's a guarentee. I can see a world where the P2.5 create their own division and leave everyone else behind.  If the ACC becomes the eqivilent of an FCS league,  i could see schools dropping football or downsizing it.

I can also see a world where the ACC leftovers and the BEast come together to form a new conference with football and non football members.

Neither probably happens, but 10 years ago the PAC 12 dissolving probably doesnt happen either. I am comfortable saying that in 10 years,  it is more likely that the ACC is a midmajor or gone than it is that they are still a power conference.

IDK. I just don't think schools will drop football for a variety of reasons. If the ACC becomes a glorified G5 conference, I think most of them keep the sport.

But you are right...who really knows.

[MUbiz]

How long does the Big Twelve's contract with Fox go?  Because UCONN's football program wouldn't be added to the Big 12 until 2031 anyway.

Big 12 contract ends the same year as BE - 2031. Very interesting....

And Uconn would be added at the start of the 2032 season - the same year as the new B12 contract.