More conference realignment talk

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Correct but having Chip Kelly and Nate Oats on the record calling for it is a very big first step in the right direction. 

I don't know if this should be in teal, but why is this a "very big first step?"  They're just coaches.

Until athletic administrators or school presidents, and probably most important media partners, start talking like this, nothing Chip Kelly or Nate Oats says is all that relevant.

[Dickthedribbler]

West Va's travel expenses in their last year of the Big East were 4 million, their first year of the Big 12 they were 8 million.

I'll still sleep tonight.

[Dr. Blackheart]

West Va's travel expenses in their last year of the Big East were 4 million, their first year of the Big 12 they were 8 million.

Huggy's drinking bill on the longer flights?

[Dickthedribbler]

Huggy's drinking bill on the longer flights?

Great call, Doc.

[MU82]

The Athletic's David Ubben says that after this rapid expansion, the next big step will be contraction. The gist:

It's the nuclear option in the future of conference membership, a "press only in event of emergency" eject button. But when the two biggest conferences run out of expansion options, contraction will be the only option to make sure the revenues continue to grow.

Over the years, I've had a decent amount of idle conversations with administrators about the possibility. When I broach the topic, I get a mostly equal distribution of responses that fall into one of three buckets.

Bucket 1: I can't see our leagues ever getting to that point.

Bucket 2: That's definitely going to happen at some point. It's a when, not if.

Bucket 3: If I were Rutgers, Northwestern or Vanderbilt (schools with brands that don't move the TV needle and have had modest on-field success historically) ... I would suggest winning some more football games. ...

If there were any doubt, the latest round of realignment has laid bare the harsh reality of college sports in 2023. There is no loyalty left. The only loyalty is to the almighty dollar. ...

Oregon and Oregon State have shared a conference since 1915. Washington and Washington State have been tied together since 1917. USC and UCLA have been alongside their Golden State brethren since 1928.

But when cash came into consideration, none of that mattered anymore.

[The Lens]

I don't know if this should be in teal, but why is this a "very big first step?"  They're just coaches.

Until athletic administrators or school presidents, and probably most important media partners, start talking like this, nothing Chip Kelly or Nate Oats says is all that relevant.

If we're ranking biggest moves, USC + UCLA is up there with Oklahoma + Texas.

So when the UCLA football coach suggests split conferences, you don't think that's significant?  That's a pretty big voice.  And it's coming from a realignment winner.  This isn't Jonathan Smith talking.

[dgies9156]

Bucket 3: If I were Rutgers, Northwestern or Vanderbilt (schools with brands that don't move the TV needle and have had modest on-field success historically) ... I would suggest winning some more football games. ...
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Brother MU:

I've been saying that for a long time. Unless ESPN Creates ESPN 6000 for schools like Vanderbilt, Duke et al, it's only time until they are gone. Vandy is in the SEC because the TV money is so good, even though their team is SOOOOOOO bad!

[The Equalizer]

Good point.

That is one bright spot in all of this consolidation for at large basketball teams on the bubble.

Not gonna happen.  The bid by itself is worth $2 million/year. Plus any accumulated credits.

The league will find someone out there who thinks a share of that is better than their current situation.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If we're ranking biggest moves, USC + UCLA is up there with Oklahoma + Texas.

So when the UCLA football coach suggests split conferences, you don't think that's significant?  That's a pretty big voice.  And it's coming from a realignment winner.  This isn't Jonathan Smith talking.

No, I don't think it's significant at all.  The legendary Bo Schembechler wanted nothing to do with Penn State in the Big Ten, and was quoted all over the place voicing his opinion. Guess what?  Penn State is in the Big Ten.

Coaches simply don't carry much weight in these matters.

[Dickthedribbler]

Brother MU:

I've been saying that for a long time. Unless ESPN Creates ESPN 6000 for schools like Vanderbilt, Duke et al, it's only time until they are gone. Vandy is in the SEC because the TV money is so good, even though their team is SOOOOOOO bad!

Respectfully disagree.

Vanderbilt isn't " in the SEC because the TV  money is so good." They're in the SEC because they were grandfathered in decades ago and once in, it's virtually impossible to get someone out.  Vandy is more than content to annually collect outrageously high media money while the " producers" do all of the heavy lifting. If you took a secret poll of Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, LSU, Florida etc Vanderbilt would be gone tomorrow ( provided they could figure a way to do it).

[The Lens]

No, I don't think it's significant at all.  The legendary Bo Schembechler wanted nothing to do with Penn State in the Big Ten, and was quoted all over the place voicing his opinion. Guess what?  Penn State is in the Big Ten.

Coaches simply don't carry much weight in these matters.

No Sh!t.

I understand Chip Kelly has no say.  I'm aware of org charts within Ath Depts.   

Chip Kelly is UCLA's highest paid employee though and has the biggest microphone. He's going on the record saying the basketball + olympic sports should be returned normal conferences.   And a dozen other coaches agree with him.  That can sway public opinion.

Besides consider the optics of before you make this move your highest paid employee is suggesting rewriting half of it. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

No Sh!t.

I understand Chip Kelly has no say.  I'm aware of org charts within Ath Depts.   

Chip Kelly is UCLA's highest paid employee though and has the biggest microphone. He's going on the record saying the basketball + olympic sports should be returned normal conferences.   And a dozen other coaches agree with him.  That can sway public opinion.

Sway public opinion? No one really cares about what Chip Kelly has to say about anything off of the football field. And a significant portion of UCLA fans don't want him on the football field anyway.

Besides consider the optics of before you make this move your highest paid employee is suggesting rewriting half of it. 

Not sure exactly what you are saying here, but you really think UCLA was going to turn down an invitation to the B10 because Chip Kelly doesn't think its a good idea?

[MU82]

George Will, under the headline: At last, college football admits it is an unembarrassable money machine

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/18/college-football-realignment-money-machine/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most

There are furrowed brows as many people seriously ponder an unserious question: Can college football be saved? This question should be answered with a question: Saved from what?

Presumably, from itself. Its sudden convulsions this summer are rational ones, in the limited sense that they are driven by cold economic calculations. As a result, the college football industry must, at last, retire the three most important components of its tiresome, patently insincere, vocabulary: "amateurism," "student-athletes" and "tradition." This autumn, and ever after, college football will be played without the patina of romance that has been decreasingly successful at obscuring the absurdities that accompany grafting a multibillion-dollar entertainment industry onto institutions of higher education.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

When is George Will going to report on the moon landing?

Anyway, college football ratings will be huge as always. Until the market punishes it for ignoring the "patina of romance," why would they do any different?

[MU82]

It was just one more perspective on it, Sultan. It's cool that you don't think it was worthy of being posted.

[shoothoops]

Brother MU:

I've been saying that for a long time. Unless ESPN Creates ESPN 6000 for schools like Vanderbilt, Duke et al, it's only time until they are gone. Vandy is in the SEC because the TV money is so good, even though their team is SOOOOOOO bad!

Times change. Vandy is building a long term mid tier bowl type of program, and, they will continue to have elite level Olympic sports. They aren't going to be playing for national titles annually in football. But they will be more competitive.

https://vucommodores.com/initial-goal-reached-vandy-united-begins-next-chapter/

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It was just one more perspective on it, Sultan. It's cool that you don't think it was worthy of being posted.

I don't mind that it was posted. But George Will's sports opinions are nearly universally bad and should be ignored at all costs.

[MU82]

I don't mind that it was posted. But George Will's sports opinions are nearly universally bad and should be ignored at all costs.

The beautiful thing is that you could have seen the first two words of my post and then just moved on. Ain't freedom grand?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The beautiful thing is that you could have seen the first two words of my post and then just moved on. Ain't freedom grand?

Or you could post something on a message board, allow discussion to happen, and not be a kitten about it. Your choice.

[forgetful]

The Athletic's David Ubben says that after this rapid expansion, the next big step will be contraction. The gist:

It's the nuclear option in the future of conference membership, a "press only in event of emergency" eject button. But when the two biggest conferences run out of expansion options, contraction will be the only option to make sure the revenues continue to grow.

Over the years, I've had a decent amount of idle conversations with administrators about the possibility. When I broach the topic, I get a mostly equal distribution of responses that fall into one of three buckets.

Bucket 1: I can't see our leagues ever getting to that point.

Bucket 2: That's definitely going to happen at some point. It's a when, not if.

Bucket 3: If I were Rutgers, Northwestern or Vanderbilt (schools with brands that don't move the TV needle and have had modest on-field success historically) ... I would suggest winning some more football games. ...

If there were any doubt, the latest round of realignment has laid bare the harsh reality of college sports in 2023. There is no loyalty left. The only loyalty is to the almighty dollar. ...

Oregon and Oregon State have shared a conference since 1915. Washington and Washington State have been tied together since 1917. USC and UCLA have been alongside their Golden State brethren since 1928.

But when cash came into consideration, none of that mattered anymore.

I think it will happen eventually. The SEC can remove a member for any reason provided there is a 2/3 majority voting the university out.

I believe it is far harder to remove a University from the Big 10.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It's far more likely IMO for teams to leave the B10 and SEC and form another conference entirely.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Love me a good Mope fight.

[asdfasdf]

I've been thinking about the upcoming Big East media rights negotiations, and whether there is anything to learn from how things shook out between the Big-12 and PAC-12. Clearly the Big-12 outmaneuvered the PAC-12 and got a media deal done sooner, but it seems like the real killer blow to the PAC-12 was the clause that allowed the Big-12 increase the size of the media deal if they poached teams from other power 5 conferences.

How much value should Big East leadership put in having that same sort of clause in their next media deal? I assume media companies aren't keen on that sort of clause because it would cost them more money, so the Big East would have to leave some money on the table to get it. But it would put the Big East in an extremely strong position if/when the ACC does implode. Alternatively, there is a chance the ACC doesn't implode, in which case the Big East would leave money on the table for nothing (assuming Gonzaga is a no-go, and the SLU's and Dayton's of the world don't move the needle).

[MUbiz]

I've been thinking about the upcoming Big East media rights negotiations, and whether there is anything to learn from how things shook out between the Big-12 and PAC-12. Clearly the Big-12 outmaneuvered the PAC-12 and got a media deal done sooner, but it seems like the real killer blow to the PAC-12 was the clause that allowed the Big-12 increase the size of the media deal if they poached teams from other power 5 conferences.

How much value should Big East leadership put in having that same sort of clause in their next media deal? I assume media companies aren't keen on that sort of clause because it would cost them more money, so the Big East would have to leave some money on the table to get it. But it would put the Big East in an extremely strong position if/when the ACC does implode. Alternatively, there is a chance the ACC doesn't implode, in which case the Big East would leave money on the table for nothing (assuming Gonzaga is a no-go, and the SLU's and Dayton's of the world don't move the needle).

I read something where the ex-president of Fox sports Bob Thompson said that Fox generally will not do pro-rata for conference adds, but ESPN will do pro-rata. If you get approval from Fox to add the team, they will renegotiate the contract and pay depending on the brand name of the team.  This is different from ESPN who will just say, "add a team and your increase is X dollars".

I think the current payout to BE teams is 4.5M a year, give or take.  I don't know how much that can go up due to networks spending big on the Big 10, 12 and SEC. If I was a school president, I would be very cautious on turning down any offer from Fox. 99% of the BE schools are very well off financially and the cost of not being on a big TV network outweighs arguing over a few million a year in a TV deal. Just my 2 cents.

[Herman Cain]

I read something where the ex-president of Fox sports Bob Thompson said that Fox generally will not do pro-rata for conference adds, but ESPN will do pro-rata. If you get approval from Fox to add the team, they will renegotiate the contract and pay depending on the brand name of the team.  This is different from ESPN who will just say, "add a team and your increase is X dollars".

I think the current payout to BE teams is 4.5M a year, give or take.  I don't know how much that can go up due to networks spending big on the Big 10, 12 and SEC. If I was a school president, I would be very cautious on turning down any offer from Fox. 99% of the BE schools are very well off financially and the cost of not being on a big TV network outweighs arguing over a few million a year in a TV deal. Just my 2 cents.

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I agree with this analysis