More conference realignment talk

[Coleman]

There are 10 football programs that average 2.6 million per game or more. But Duke football averages 115,700 viewers.

If it were a basketball-only conference, those games might matter. To a football conference, those games are just blips on their least important radar. Duke isn't going to be a package deal with North Carolina because of 2 basketball games per year.

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2022-94eca4f6acbd

The better comparison would be Duke basketball's viewers vs. the alternatives ESPN (or whatever network) could be airing in its place. Bear in mind, only one of these sports is playing in February and March. Basketball is not so much competing against football, but other live winter content which the network could air. And there really ain't a lot of it. The basketball season is also 3x as many games as football, so while you may not get number of average viewers per live event, you get more live content and more opportunities to advertise. I think you are under valuing the content for the time of year it airs.

[dgies9156]

As long as NBC or some other network is willing to pay ND the big bucks, there is little incentive for Notre Dame to join a conference. Some argue that being an independent hurts their chances to qualify for the playoffs, but I agree with you -- being a Big 20 also-ran would hurt their chances a lot more. And with the playoffs expanding, they will be in good shape to make it many years.

I also think that playing all non-football sports in the Big East could end up being the best fit for ND. It's hard to imagine that the Big 20 or SEC would let them stay independent in football the way the ACC has, but maybe.

The difficulty with this theory is Notre Dame has to have someone to play. TV ain't going to pay them BIG BUCKS if they're playing University of Minnesota-Duluth , Navy, Yale, Outer Slobobia State, Nashville State Technical College and the University of Wisconsin Superior.

That's why they play in the ACC.

To get the caliber of competition Notre Dame needs to be Notre Dame, they've got to be in either the SEC or BIG. Take your pick Domers. One or the other!

[brewcity77]

Did you post this on reddit? I swear I saw almost this exact same argument there. I don't disagree

I didn't, but it seems like a logical conclusion considering how they couldn't wait to get back here despite our no-football status.

As far as the Duke/UNC game, it's more that I don't see any thought of basketball being a driver in these decisions. It's all football centric because that's where their money is made. Basketball is the equivalent of a spring hobby.

[WhiteTrash]

I didn't, but it seems like a logical conclusion considering how they couldn't wait to get back here despite our no-football status.

As far as the Duke/UNC game, it's more that I don't see any thought of basketball being a driver in these decisions. It's all football centric because that's where their money is made. Basketball is the equivalent of a spring hobby.

Has the P5 ever added a school for their basketball program? Either moving into P5 or switching P5? I can't think of one.

More power to Duke if they can become the first.

In the scenario of the ACC unraveling, that would give Duke its chance, I see way more attractive schools available than Duke.  IMHO.

[Viper]

The difficulty with this theory is Notre Dame has to have someone to play. TV ain't going to pay them BIG BUCKS if they're playing University of Minnesota-Duluth , Navy, Yale, Outer Slobobia State, Nashville State Technical College and the University of Wisconsin Superior.

That's why they play in the ACC.

To get the caliber of competition Notre Dame needs to be Notre Dame, they've got to be in either the SEC or BIG. Take your pick Domers. One or the other!

...My man Dgies. You know this!...don't slight UWSuperior Yellowjacket football!! Wait...does UWS have football? 😊

[Dr. Blackheart]

The difficulty with this theory is Notre Dame has to have someone to play. TV ain't going to pay them BIG BUCKS if they're playing University of Minnesota-Duluth , Navy, Yale, Outer Slobobia State, Nashville State Technical College and the University of Wisconsin Superior.

That's why they play in the ACC.

To get the caliber of competition Notre Dame needs to be Notre Dame, they've got to be in either the SEC or BIG. Take your pick Domers. One or the other!

The thing is, though, with the Mega Conferences, these teams will be looking for a better quality out of conference opponent to help their schedule strength for an at large bid.  Ball State ain't going to do it for UW anymore but ND might. Plus, ND has the legacy service academy games under contract.

[brewcity77]

Has the P5 ever added a school for their basketball program? Either moving into P5 or switching P5? I can't think of one.

More power to Duke if they can become the first.

In the scenario of the ACC unraveling, that would give Duke its chance, I see way more attractive schools available than Duke.  IMHO.

When it was P6, the Big East adding the CUSA basketball schools is probably the closest thing, and that was nearly 20 years ago now.

Maybe Syracuse to the ACC? Though that was more about unraveling the Big East than what was added.

[DFW HOYA]

Has the P5 ever added a school for their basketball program? Either moving into P5 or switching P5? I can't think of one.

Maryland?

[forgetful]

Maryland?

Added to gain the DC market for the BIG network.

[MUDPT]

When do the power football conferences reach saturation?  A 20 team mega conference has well hit the point of diminishing returns, IMO.  This will be true with TV markets too. It sounds like the B1G is almost there and would be selective (Notre Dame, UNC).

Also, would ND join the B1G to finish in 8th place every year and give up playoff bid?  They have had at least 10 chances to do that.  I think they prefer their own TV deal. Maybe the BE has a chance of them returning?

I think they are already there.  UW's home B10 schedule last year:  Illinois, Purdue, Maryland, Minnesota.  This year: Rutgers, Iowa, Ohio State, Northwestern and Nebraska. I've heard lots of complaints locally about it.  USC is exciting, but also means you play the Big Teams in the East less often as well.

[muwarrior69]

Maryland?

You really think that the ACC added L'ville, Syracuse and Pitt for their football?

[Uncle Rico]

You really think that the ACC added L'ville, Syracuse and Pitt for their football?

Yes.  They needed the inventory. 

[The Sultan]

You really think that the ACC added L'ville, Syracuse and Pitt for their football?

They added them for markets and inventory. That is almost always why schools are added.

Second is for football.

[brewcity77]

They added them for markets and inventory. That is almost always why schools are added.

Second is for football.

To an extent, but killing the Big East is another reason the schools were picked. We know ESPN directed the ACC in terms of who to target. The Big East TV contract was coming up and the ACC raid allowed ESPN to retain what they felt were the most marketable Big East schools by moving them to the ACC while saving them from having to bid on another P6 package.

[WhiteTrash]

You really think that the ACC added L'ville, Syracuse and Pitt for their football?

Yes, yes and yes.

[The Sultan]

To an extent, but killing the Big East is another reason the schools were picked. We know ESPN directed the ACC in terms of who to target. The Big East TV contract was coming up and the ACC raid allowed ESPN to retain what they felt were the most marketable Big East schools by moving them to the ACC while saving them from having to bid on another P6 package.

Right. The ACC wanted those markets in question and used ESPN to help guide them.

I really don't think the motivation by the ACC was to kill the Big East.

[WhiteTrash]

Right. The ACC wanted those markets in question and used ESPN to help guide them.

I really don't think the motivation by the ACC was to kill the Big East.

I honestly believe killing the Big East was 1b on the list of motivations. It was a good business decision to eliminate competition. I don't blame them for putting the boot on the BE neck. The SEC or Big10 or Big XII will do it to the ACC. 

[dgies9156]

...My man Dgies. You know this!...don't slight UWSuperior Yellowjacket football!! Wait...does UWS have football? 😊

Are you from Superior or something?

Given the climate up there, the Yellowjackets should really be the mosquitos!

[DFW HOYA]

Right. The ACC wanted those markets in question and used ESPN to help guide them.
I really don't think the motivation by the ACC was to kill the Big East.

"ESPN is the one who told us what to do."--Gene DeFilippo, Boston College athletic director

[The Sultan]

"ESPN is the one who told us what to do."--Gene DeFilippo, Boston College athletic director

And the Big East would do the same with Fox if expansion is ever on the table.

[DFW HOYA]

And the Big East would do the same with Fox if expansion is ever on the table.

Which is fair at the conference level, but if networks told individual presidents to steer schools out of agreements to make the networks more money, that would be a complete lack of fiduciary responsibility.

[El Guerrero 2]

Has the P5 ever added a school for their basketball program? Either moving into P5 or switching P5? I can't think of one.

More power to Duke if they can become the first.

In the scenario of the ACC unraveling, that would give Duke its chance, I see way more attractive schools available than Duke.  IMHO.

Why is the Big 12 looking at UConn then? It certainly isn't because they have a prestigious football program. I think football is closing in on a point where there are no viable football targets for the SEC, Big 10 and Big 12. At that point, overall brand recognition comes into play and the Big 10 might prefer adding UNC and Duke to its roster than another football also ran.

[WhiteTrash]

Why is the Big 12 looking at UConn then? It certainly isn't because they have a prestigious football program. I think football is closing in on a point where there are no viable football targets for the SEC, Big 10 and Big 12. At that point, overall brand recognition comes into play and the Big 10 might prefer adding UNC and Duke to its roster than another football also ran.

So the answer is 'no' about basketball motivated P5 expansion.

Rumors of Big XII basketball expansion are real rumors. No argument here.

I would never rule out basketball motivated expansion, my only point is that it has never happened. But things can change. More power to Duke if it does happen.

[Viper]

Are you from Superior or something?

Given the climate up there, the Yellowjackets should really be the mosquitos!

biz client in Duluth. Get up there now& then.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Why is the Big 12 looking at UConn then? It certainly isn't because they have a prestigious football program. I think football is closing in on a point where there are no viable football targets for the SEC, Big 10 and Big 12. At that point, overall brand recognition comes into play and the Big 10 might prefer adding UNC and Duke to its roster than another football also ran.

The Big 12 is looking at most of the PAC 12, half the BEast, half the ACC, Gonzaga, and a handful of AAC and MWC schools. They won't end up taking most of them. My guess is that UConn doesn't make the cut.