Hypocrisy of MU Basketball

[Silent Verbal]

those things and how the coach and team are representing the university.  It's not as if MU is in Northwestern territory right now or losing home buy games to Merrimack, FAMU or Cal State Fullerton. I haven't seen Josh Rothstein refer to any of our results as "the epitome of brutality."

When the fans start sharing their opinions by withholding donations or not buying tickets then the administration will act. But as long as Wojo's team is competing for a tourney bid every year, 15K are filling the arena, and representing the university in a positive manner (as a person, unlike Deane, and as a program, unlike Buzz) he's safe.

So basically as long as Wojo doesn’t turn Marquette into DePaul, he’s safe?  It’ll take *a lot* of losing for Marquette’s attendance to drop to where it was during the Deane era.  The nearly two decades of sustained success under Crean and Buzz saw to that.  But a few more years of middling results will certainly start to make a difference.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

those things and how the coach and team are representing the university.  It's not as if MU is in Northwestern territory right now or losing home buy games to Merrimack, FAMU or Cal State Fullerton. I haven't seen Josh Rothstein refer to any of our results as "the epitome of brutality."

When the fans start sharing their opinions by withholding donations or not buying tickets then the administration will act. But as long as Wojo's team is competing for a tourney bid every year, 15K are filling the arena, and representing the university in a positive manner (as a person, unlike Deane, and as a program, unlike Buzz) he's safe.

Buzz represented the university well with Buzz's Bunch and being active in the community.  Perhaps you have a disdain for Buzz's accent or it's just Wojo's monotone, low voice makes your heart flutter along with his recruits that seem to almost all shop at the GAP.  Winning is what matters.  To settle for Wojo's facade is to admit you're a fan of image rather than results and history.

[Galway Eagle]

Buzz represented the university well with Buzz's Bunch and being active in the community.  Perhaps you have a disdain for Buzz's accent or it's just Wojo's monotone, low voice makes your heart flutter along with his recruits that seem to almost all shop at the GAP.  Winning is what matters.  To settle for Wojo's facade is to admit you're a fan of image rather than results and history.

Yeah that and the get everyone's story straight meeting after two team bonding sessions with unwilling victims and he represented the school fantastic.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Yeah that and the get everyone's story straight meeting after two team bonding sessions with unwilling victims and he represented the school fantastic.

You can blame the school itself for its antiquated policies.  If it cared about the victims, it would have turned the case over to the police.  But hey.... Catholics have never been for transparency, have they?

[Galway Eagle]

You can blame the school itself for its antiquated policies.  If it cared about the victims, it would have turned the case over to the police.  But hey.... Catholics have never been for transparency, have they?

I can and do. That does not absolve buzz from his part.

Nope, they have not it's one of many reasons I'm not a practicing Catholic.

[Billy Hoyle]

So basically as long as Wojo doesn’t turn Marquette into DePaul, he’s safe?  It’ll take *a lot* of losing for Marquette’s attendance to drop to where it was during the Deane era.  The nearly two decades of sustained success under Crean and Buzz saw to that.  But a few more years of middling results will certainly start to make a difference.

has DePaul been competing for the NCAA tourney every year? How is DePaul's attendance and donation rate? 

It's all or nothing with the anti-Wojo crowd. We're either Duke or DePaul, no in between.

[real chili 83]

In before the lock

[Billy Hoyle]

Yeah that and the get everyone's story straight meeting after two team bonding sessions with unwilling victims and he represented the school fantastic.

don't forget his scapegoating and running the guy who intervened.

[Dr. Blackheart]

In before the lock

Lock before the in

[Silent Verbal]

has DePaul been competing for the NCAA tourney every year? How is DePaul's attendance and donation rate? 

It's all or nothing with the anti-Wojo crowd. We're either Duke or DePaul, no in between.

I didn’t say Marquette was DePaul.  I said he would have to turn MU into DePaul before the administration considered moving on.

[Eldon]

Buzz represented the university well with Buzz's Bunch and being active in the community.  Perhaps you have a disdain for Buzz's accent or it's just Wojo's monotone, low voice makes your heart flutter along with his recruits that seem to almost all shop at the GAP.  Winning is what matters.  To settle for Wojo's facade is to admit you're a fan of image rather than results and history.

Shop at the Gap lol

[Cheeks]

You can blame the school itself for its antiquated policies.  If it cared about the victims, it would have turned the case over to the police.  But hey.... Catholics have never been for transparency, have they?

Antiquated policies.....some lawyers argue what was done IS AGAINST THE LAW....but hey...what the hell...antiquated.  Good Lord.

[#UnleashSean]

You people have changed your expectations so much in 6 years. It's no longer competing for a national championship, conference Champs, or a final four. It's become "competing for a bid to the tournament" really?

[Herman Cain]

After a long hiatus, I've returned.  Several years ago I called for the firing of Wojo, critiquing his poor coaching.  The moderators tried to shut me down for voicing an opinion supported by facts.  Time hath proven me correct that Wojo is a fraud.  The question remains:  Why do the majority of MU fans continue to "believe" in this fraud?  Let's take a look. 

Why is Wojo Still Head Coach?
a. Coach K's coattails
b. Fan base who lacks critical analysis to evaluate coaching. 
c. Poor contract offered up by the university
d. Your infatuation with Markus Howard's stats and alleged 4* recruits that don't pan out

Wojo's Weaknesses
a. Lack of continuity on defense.  No system whatsoever
b. Inability to recruit talent and recruit players that fit to a system
c. Monotone buffoonery that is uninspiring - Jason Garrett 2.0
d. Inability to create a significant home court advantage when you have one of the highest attendances in NCAA basketball = lack of defense

The MU fanbase and media are to blame.  No effort has been taken to behead the beast that has sullied the program.  Wojo's only strength is his clean cut, professional image which seems to be what the MU fan base craves these days.

Thanks for this well considered  and thoughtful post.

One point worth noting. Shortly after the end of the season I posted a straightforward up and down poll on Wojo. A decent amount responded and the total was 85/15 for Wojo staying.  I posted another poll shortly after Hausergate and the response was 70/30 for Wojo staying. So right now the fans are not at a point to lead a rebellion. I think when those polls are around 50/50 then you know trouble is in store.

The problem as I see it, is that the Lovell/Wojo axis is still extremely strong.  I don't know if you have ever met Wojo in person. He is a much different person than what you see on TV. Even his face looks different, much more relaxed etc. A very smooth corporate brown nose operator.  Knows exactly what to say and how to say it to the Big Cheeses that make the decisions.  He has shown just enough progression to give hope that the Big Sale is just around the corner. That is how all the good salesman do it. One other item worth noting , is Wojo has embraced the history of MU and has the alum of the program in his corner.  Those guys have egos too, and they love having them be stroked.

You have laid out some very valid and responsible reasons for Wojo's ouster, unfortunately the guys who ultimately make those decisions have a materially different view of the world . They appear to be placing value on the scandal free character of his administration and are thus satisfied with the performance to date.Wojo is King for life at MU provided no scandal occurs. 

Our best hope for getting a new coach is when some desperate Power 5 football school in search of new direction for basketball reaches out to Wojo. Wojo got a sniff of what it felt like with Va Tech last year and he admitted he was flattered. It may take a couple of coaching carousel cycles for the right opening to emerge. In the meantime we have to just gird our loins and hope Wojo can maintain until we are unleashed from the shackles of his tenure. The Big East is going to get even tougher next year with the addition of U Conn. 

[Galway Eagle]

You people have changed your expectations so much in 6 years. It's no longer competing for a national championship, conference Champs, or a final four. It's become "competing for a bid to the tournament" really?

we never had a championship shot. There was two years maybe three if you include 09 (which then you have to include last year) where we competed for conference champs/FF.

[Cheeks]

You people have changed your expectations so much in 6 years. It's no longer competing for a national championship, conference Champs, or a final four. It's become "competing for a bid to the tournament" really?

Wrong

I expect we make the NCAA tournament 3.5 to 4 years out of every 5.  That's reasonable knowing our history.  I expect us to compete for conference championships....like we did last year...talk about forgetting and losing site of reality.  We have made three Final Fours in the last 42 years.  I don't expect to compete for Final Fours...you're right...I don't.  We are capable of doing it from time to time, but I don't expect it.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Wrong

I expect we make the NCAA tournament 3.5 to 4 years out of every 5.  That's reasonable knowing our history.  I expect us to compete for conference championships....like we did last year...talk about forgetting and losing site of reality.  We have made three Final Fours in the last 42 years.  I don't expect to compete for Final Fours...you're right...I don't.  We are capable of doing it from time to time, but I don't expect it.

MU Expectations

Be in the NCAA Tourney 99% of the time - No reason you can't be in Big East with a field of 68
2 to 3 Sweet 16's per decade
0-1 Elite 8 per decade
0-1 Final Four per decade

Typical expectation should be be a 1 to 2 win team in the tourney every year with avg of 23+ Wins Per Season

[Cheeks]

MU Expectations

Be in the NCAA Tourney 99% of the time - No reason you can't be in Big East with a field of 68
2 to 3 Sweet 16's per decade
0-1 Elite 8 per decade
0-1 Final Four per decade

Typical expectation should be be a 1 to 2 win team in the tourney every year with avg of 23+ Wins Per Season

We've gone through this exercise time and again.  99% of the time....there are something like 5 programs in the last 20 years that have done that.  Not Kentucky. Not UCLA.  Not Louisville.  Etc, etc. 

This is when I know how crazy the expectations are vs reality. 

[jesmu84]

Thanks for this well considered  and thoughtful post.

One point worth noting. Shortly after the end of the season I posted a straightforward up and down poll on Wojo. A decent amount responded and the total was 85/15 for Wojo staying.  I posted another poll shortly after Hausergate and the response was 70/30 for Wojo staying. So right now the fans are not at a point to lead a rebellion. I think when those polls are around 50/50 then you know trouble is in store.

The problem as I see it, is that the Lovell/Wojo axis is still extremely strong.  I don't know if you have ever met Wojo in person. He is a much different person than what you see on TV. Even his face looks different, much more relaxed etc. A very smooth corporate brown nose operator.  Knows exactly what to say and how to say it to the Big Cheeses that make the decisions.  He has shown just enough progression to give hope that the Big Sale is just around the corner. That is how all the good salesman do it. One other item worth noting , is Wojo has embraced the history of MU and has the alum of the program in his corner.  Those guys have egos too, and they love having them be stroked.

You have laid out some very valid and responsible reasons for Wojo's ouster, unfortunately the guys who ultimately make those decisions have a materially different view of the world . They appear to be placing value on the scandal free character of his administration and are thus satisfied with the performance to date.Wojo is King for life at MU provided no scandal occurs. 

Our best hope for getting a new coach is when some desperate Power 5 football school in search of new direction for basketball reaches out to Wojo. Wojo got a sniff of what it felt like with Va Tech last year and he admitted he was flattered. It may take a couple of coaching carousel cycles for the right opening to emerge. In the meantime we have to just gird our loins and hope Wojo can maintain until we are unleashed from the shackles of his tenure. The Big East is going to get even tougher next year with the addition of U Conn.

Source please.

[Herman Cain]

Source please.

It will take me time to find it, but I clearly remember hearing him say it was nice to know someplace thought highly enough of him etc in a video interview sometime after the end of the season.  The interview spoke to the Hausers etc.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Thanks for this well considered  and thoughtful post.

One point worth noting. Shortly after the end of the season I posted a straightforward up and down poll on Wojo. A decent amount responded and the total was 85/15 for Wojo staying.  I posted another poll shortly after Hausergate and the response was 70/30 for Wojo staying. So right now the fans are not at a point to lead a rebellion. I think when those polls are around 50/50 then you know trouble is in store.

The problem as I see it, is that the Lovell/Wojo axis is still extremely strong.  I don't know if you have ever met Wojo in person. He is a much different person than what you see on TV. Even his face looks different, much more relaxed etc. A very smooth corporate brown nose operator.  Knows exactly what to say and how to say it to the Big Cheeses that make the decisions.  He has shown just enough progression to give hope that the Big Sale is just around the corner. That is how all the good salesman do it. One other item worth noting , is Wojo has embraced the history of MU and has the alum of the program in his corner.  Those guys have egos too, and they love having them be stroked.

You have laid out some very valid and responsible reasons for Wojo's ouster, unfortunately the guys who ultimately make those decisions have a materially different view of the world . They appear to be placing value on the scandal free character of his administration and are thus satisfied with the performance to date.Wojo is King for life at MU provided no scandal occurs. 

Our best hope for getting a new coach is when some desperate Power 5 football school in search of new direction for basketball reaches out to Wojo. Wojo got a sniff of what it felt like with Va Tech last year and he admitted he was flattered. It may take a couple of coaching carousel cycles for the right opening to emerge. In the meantime we have to just gird our loins and hope Wojo can maintain until we are unleashed from the shackles of his tenure. The Big East is going to get even tougher next year with the addition of U Conn.

Well, when Howard leaves the program what is really the selling point anymore?  There isn't a beacon of hope unless someone in the 2020 class is ahead of schedule and can create some excitement.  Wojo will have to look hard to find someone to create excitement.  To me, that's when the real clock starts ticking.  Right now it's all about image.  That's why a lot of good coaches in the lower ranks don't want to coach in Division I - the political landscape.  Why doesn't Wojo just run for office?  Can't we find senate seat for him or house seat?

[Johnny B]

MU Expectations

Be in the NCAA Tourney 99% of the time - No reason you can't be in Big East with a field of 68
2 to 3 Sweet 16's per decade
0-1 Elite 8 per decade
0-1 Final Four per decade

Typical expectation should be be a 1 to 2 win team in the tourney every year with avg of 23+ Wins Per Season

You want this? Go be a jayhawk fan. I dont get the non sense people spew on here sometimes. We have expectations that are somewhat in line with reality. I expect to be good  and make the tourney most years. The odds of us getting a coach k and becoming the duke are just not reasonable expectation

[dgies9156]

Brother Dark Glasses:

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The decision about Wojo will be revenue driven. Period. End of story.

When people stop coming to the Computing Castle. When TV ratings are down and when our games are sandwiched between the Devotional Hour and All-Star Wrestling and just ahead of the national anthem, then they'll begin to see things in a different light. When it costs them money is when the BOT and the University will act.

Results matter. In this case, being a member of the Big East and a party to its huge TV contract matters. When 13,000 people show up for a crappy game at the CC, then they're getting the results they want.

My analogy to this is simple. The Chicago Bears, a few years back when the Fox was HC, saw huge amounts of no-shows. The north and south ends of the Grandstands were vacant at kickoff. Bear fans stopped ticket renewals and the Bears suddenly were working their way down the season ticket waiting list.  The Fox was suddenly put down in favor of an "offensive genius." The bleeding stopped and the Bears were popular again.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Brother Dark Glasses:

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The decision about Wojo will be revenue driven. Period. End of story.

When people stop coming to the Computing Castle. When TV ratings are down and when our games are sandwiched between the Devotional Hour and All-Star Wrestling and just ahead of the national anthem, then they'll begin to see things in a different light. When it costs them money is when the BOT and the University will act.

Results matter. In this case, being a member of the Big East and a party to its huge TV contract matters. When 13,000 people show up for a crappy game at the CC, then they're getting the results they want.

My analogy to this is simple. The Chicago Bears, a few years back when the Fox was HC, saw huge amounts of no-shows. The north and south ends of the Grandstands were vacant at kickoff. Bear fans stopped ticket renewals and the Bears suddenly were working their way down the season ticket waiting list.  The Fox was suddenly put down in favor of an "offensive genius." The bleeding stopped and the Bears were popular again.

I understand it perfectly.  The problem with their thinking is that it won't last long term.  As soon as Markus Howard leaves there isn't an attraction anymore.  You're left with mediocre basketball and no namers.  Next year is going to be Wojo's biggest sell job as he will have to find his next gimmick.