Stealing Tower's Thunder

[wadesworld]

Not creative enough for a good thread title.

1) This team needs Markus on the ball.  He doesn't have the feel for the game you need from your lead guard (seems before a possession even starts he's already decided it's either time for him to shoot or time for him to pass), but this team needs Markus with the ball in his hands.
2) Wojo needs to run plays to get Bailey the ball more often.  He's definitely our second best player, but he doesn't always seek out his shot so he can get lost in the flow of the game.
3) Our bigs are pretty useless against a team like Creighton that can draw them out to the perimeter.  They're never going to be scoring threats, so the height advantage doesn't help much on the offensive side of the ball and they are hopeless chasing around forwards on the perimeter.
4) Koby was the only guy who stood a chance of keeping his man in front of him defensively.  But he's not a threat to score right now.
5) Your starting backcourt having 2 fouls each within the first 10 minutes of the game isn't ideal.  Especially on the road in game 1 of conference play.
6) Not much great to come out of this.  Good thing we get to bounce back against...Nova on Saturday.  Yippee!

[WhiteTrash]

I'd like Marquette to go Division I in men's basketball so we can compete with Creighton. It will mean we have to pay our coach about $1MM and give 13 kids scholarships, but I think it is worth it. Just imagine being able to play with Creighton. That would be awesome!!!

[wadesworld]

I'd like Marquette to go Division I in men's basketball so we can compete with Creighton. It will mean we have to pay our coach about $1MM and give 13 kids scholarships, but I think it is worth it. Just imagine being able to play with Creighton. That would be awesome!!!

What?

[#UnleashSean]

What I'm hoping the admins feel like after today.

[Elonsmusk]

What?

No doubt we've seen a "transformation of the program from Bert."  Care to comment on your post from January 1, 2015:

Take this season for what it is. A transition year. Wojo looks for different things in a player than what Bert did. Doesn't make 1 better than the other. Just different. There are different ways to win. You could tell from day 1 that a guy like Burton wasn't going to fly with Wojo if he didn't change his style of play. From the coming out and clearly being unhappy with the performance at Madness to the disgusted look on his face when Burton missed a crowd pleasing dunk while up about 50 vs. Wisconsin Lutheran College you can tell Wojo demands fundamental play from everyone regardless of whether it's a pickup game or a National Championship game.

I, for one, am perfectly fine with that. Right now he has 1 player who Bert recruited that Wojo decided he could mold into a player he would like to see and a 1 year rental. Wojo chose more or less none of the players on this roster. I have heard from multiple people the sentiment of "just wait until he had his players in and he'll have this program where it hasn't been since the 70s." Maybe it's just Duke favoritism, but I have a feeling these people will be proven right. He has a vision and his first recruiting class shows he also has a plan.

This year will be more frustrating than any in a while. But after this we will see the transformation of a program. And it's going to be a joy.

R-E-L-A-X
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 06:24:32 PM by wadesworld »

[wadesworld]

No doubt we've seen a "transformation of the program from Bert."  Care to comment on your post from January 1, 2015:

Take this season for what it is. A transition year. Wojo looks for different things in a player than what Bert did. Doesn't make 1 better than the other. Just different. There are different ways to win. You could tell from day 1 that a guy like Burton wasn't going to fly with Wojo if he didn't change his style of play. From the coming out and clearly being unhappy with the performance at Madness to the disgusted look on his face when Burton missed a crowd pleasing dunk while up about 50 vs. Wisconsin Lutheran College you can tell Wojo demands fundamental play from everyone regardless of whether it's a pickup game or a National Championship game.

I, for one, am perfectly fine with that. Right now he has 1 player who Bert recruited that Wojo decided he could mold into a player he would like to see and a 1 year rental. Wojo chose more or less none of the players on this roster. I have heard from multiple people the sentiment of "just wait until he had his players in and he'll have this program where it hasn't been since the 70s." Maybe it's just Duke favoritism, but I have a feeling these people will be proven right. He has a vision and his first recruiting class shows he also has a plan.

This year will be more frustrating than any in a while. But after this we will see the transformation of a program. And it's going to be a joy.

R-E-L-A-X
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 06:24:32 PM by wadesworld »

Thank you for the very relevant post regarding the subject matter, tonight's game.

[Silent Verbal]

Creighton deserves a lot of credit.  They clearly hadn't forgotten MU's impossible win last year, and it showed.  They out-everythinged us.  Zegarowski, Alexander, and Ballock are all better than anyone on our team not named Howard.  Where does McDermott get those wonderful toys? 

As for us, we sucked ass.  Right now, I think it's a coin flip whether we make the tournament or not.  My biggest concern going forward is this:  Another Markus Howard ain't walking through that door next year.  If we can't make a deep run with a player like that on the roster, a guy who can score 10 points in 90 seconds without breaking a sweat, what does that say about Wojo?

[Elonsmusk]

Thank you for the very relevant post regarding the subject matter, tonight's game.

Seemed like a good time to get your latest take, here on the 5 year anniversary of that prophecy. 

As for tonights game, I'm not surprised we got blown out again.  We've seen this movie many times since Wojo took over.  You feeling good about next year with Markus gone?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Tonight sucked. Felt like the Murray State game. Wojo had a game plan for Creighton's normal offense, Coach McD anticipated, ran out a completely different look than what they normally run on offense, and Wojo didn't adjust to it. It's a weakness of Wojo's, when an opposing coach does something unexpected, he doubles down and bets that they will regress to their normal offensive game plan. Sometimes it works but when it doesn't it is ugly.

Last season we got torched by the Jays quick perimeter passing leading to open threes. Wojo planned for that and when we forced them into a longer possession we did a good job rotating and covering all of their shooters. We had a complete and utter failure containing penetration. I've never seen Creighton run so many iso plays. When guys like Ballock are looking to drive instead of pass or shoot it is by design to take advantage of a weakness in the opposing defense. Our inability to stay in front of penetrating guards is maddening but our help defense is elite. Wojo overworried about the three point shot which neutralized our help defenders. I would have liked to see the bigs and forwards to stay home and defend the lane. Dare guys like Mahoney, Jefferson, and Bishop to shoot it. Hell, I may have even tried Guru's suggestion of zone. The 5s need to stay near the basket and I'd like Jamal and Bailey to be closer the lane than the the three point line.

This continues to feel like last season. Blown out by a mediocre B1G team on the road (Indiana/Wisconsin). Blown out by a top 10 team on a neutral court (Kansas/Maryland). Blown out on the road in the conference opener (SJU/Creighton). And we may forget but that loss to Saint John's last season was by a bigger margin and I promise that Creighton will finish a lot of higher in KenPom this year than St. John's did last year. That team earned a 5 seed. I think this team has that capability as well. I'm excited to see if we can do it and hopefully avoid the end of season collapse this time.

[Elonsmusk]

Tonight sucked. Felt like the Murray State game. Wojo had a game plan for Creighton's normal offense, Coach McD anticipated, ran out a completely different look than what they normally run on offense, and Wojo didn't adjust to it. It's a weakness of Wojo's, when an opposing coach does something unexpected, he doubles down and bets that they will regress to their normal offensive game plan. Sometimes it works but when it doesn't it is ugly.

Last season we got torched by the Jays quick perimeter passing leading to open threes. Wojo planned for that and when we forced them into a longer possession we did a good job rotating and covering all of their shooters. We had a complete and utter failure containing penetration. I've never seen Creighton run so many iso plays. When guys like Ballock are looking to drive instead of pass or shoot it is by design to take advantage of a weakness in the opposing defense. Our inability to stay in front of penetrating guards is maddening but our help defense is elite. Wojo overworried about the three point shot which neutralized our help defenders. I would have liked to see the bigs and forwards to stay home and defend the lane. Dare guys like Mahoney, Jefferson, and Bishop to shoot it. Hell, I may have even tried Guru's suggestion of zone. The 5s need to stay near the basket and I'd like Jamal and Bailey to be closer the lane than the the three point line.

This continues to feel like last season. Blown out by a mediocre B1G team on the road (Indiana/Wisconsin). Blown out by a top 10 team on a neutral court (Kansas/Maryland). Blown out on the road in the conference opener (SJU/Creighton). And we may forget but that loss to Saint John's last season was by a bigger margin and I promise that Creighton will finish a lot of higher in KenPom this year than St. John's did last year. That team earned a 5 seed. I think this team has that capability as well. I'm excited to see if we can do it and hopefully avoid the end of season collapse this time.

Creighton put up 104 on us at home last year. Not sure we defended that much better last year?   

You know it, I know it, and anyone with a shred of honesty knows it:  Losing the Hausers was a big blow.  Yet maybe somehow beyond all odds, we will finish better this season and it will be a case of addition by subtraction, yet I'm certainly losing the small bit of faith I was gaining.  To go from winning there last year to this beat down is not encouraging.

[Cheeks]

Creighton put up 104 on us at home last year. Not sure we defended that much better last year?   

You know it, I know it, and anyone with a shred of honesty knows it:  Losing the Hausers was a big blow.  Yet maybe somehow beyond all odds, we will finish better this season and it will be a case of addition by subtraction, yet I'm certainly losing the small bit of faith I was gaining.  To go from winning there last year to this beat down is not encouraging.

LOL....yes, because they aren't allowed to get better and are the exact same team as last year.

We also lost to Creighton at home last year...with the Hausers...so if we beat Creighton at home this year without them does that blow your argument? 

How about we get real and realize every year is different for us and different for the other teams, too.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Creighton put up 104 on us at home last year. Not sure we defended that much better last year?   

Where did I say we defended them better last season?

You know it, I know it, and anyone with a shred of honesty knows it:  Losing the Hausers was a big blow.  Yet maybe somehow beyond all odds, we will finish better this season and it will be a case of addition by subtraction, yet I'm certainly losing the small bit of faith I was gaining.  To go from winning there last year to this beat down is not encouraging.

Where did I say losing the Hausers wasn't a big blow? Also if we do finish equal to or better than last year's team, why would that make the Hausers addition by subtraction?

[Elonsmusk]

Where did I say we defended them better last season?

Where did I say losing the Hausers wasn't a big blow? Also if we do finish equal to or better than last year's team, why would that make the Hausers addition by subtraction?

You misconstrued - You were lamenting our defense this game - and I was pointing out that we didn't do any better defending them last season.  Also, I know that you know losing the Hausers was a big blow - saw you get jumped on by the few die hard Wojo fans for saying it was a big loss.

[Cheeks]

Mutaman...a Badger fan (plenty of posts to prove it) suddenly active here tonight.

Ners / Elonmusk super active tonight

Then the same crew list in the game thread that comes out every few weeks.  Like clock work

Happy New Year

[CountryRoads]

I'm getting pretty sick of these ass beatings where the game is over at halftime (or very shortly thereafter) to pretty comparable teams on paper.

Under Buzz and Crean it felt like the team was much more competitive even in losses. I put together some data but it really doesn't tell a good story. Crean and Buzz played against much more difficult competition in conference play and some of the biggest outliers for Crean and Buzz were blowouts deep in the NCAA tournament which this regime hasn't even come close to sniffing.

They've been completely blown out three times this year and I hope that changes is all I am saying I guess.

Coach,  Year,  Losses,  Average of Margin of L
         
Crean,  2000,  14,  9.07
Crean,  2001,  14,  9.57
Crean,  2002,  7,  6.86
Crean,  2003,  6,  12.33
Crean,  2004,  12,  9.83
Crean,  2005,  12,  12.75
Crean,  2006,  11,  7.91
Crean,  2007,  10,  9.40
Crean,  2008,  10,  9.70

Crean totals: 9 years, 96 losses, 9.71 average margin of loss
         
Buzz,  2009,  10,  8.70
Buzz,  2010,  12,  5.00
Buzz,  2011,  15,  8.33
Buzz,  2012,  8,  10.75
Buzz,  2013,  9,  10.33
Buzz,  2014,  15,  9.20

Buzz Totals: 6 years, 69 losses, 8.54 average margin of loss
         
Wojo,  2015,  19,  11.58
Wojo,  2016,  13,  12.46
Wojo,  2017,  13,  9.15
Wojo,  2018,  14,  10.71
Wojo,  2019,  10,  9.70
Wojo,  2020,  3,  18.00

Wojo Totals: 5+ years, 72 losses, 11.14 margin

[Cheeks]

I'm getting pretty sick of these ass beatings where the game is over at halftime (or very shortly thereafter) to pretty comparable teams on paper.

Under Buzz and Crean it felt like the team was much more competitive even in losses. I put together some data but it really doesn't tell a good story. Crean and Buzz played against much more difficult competition in conference play and some of the biggest outliers for Crean and Buzz were blowouts deep in the NCAA tournament which this regime hasn't even come close to sniffing.

They've been completely blown out three times this year and I hope that changes is all I am saying I guess.

Coach,  Year,  Losses,  Average of Margin of L
         
Crean,  2000,  14,  9.07
Crean,  2001,  14,  9.57
Crean,  2002,  7,  6.86
Crean,  2003,  6,  12.33
Crean,  2004,  12,  9.83
Crean,  2005,  12,  12.75
Crean,  2006,  11,  7.91
Crean,  2007,  10,  9.40
Crean,  2008,  10,  9.70

Crean totals: 9 years, 96 losses, 9.71 average margin of loss
         
Buzz,  2009,  10,  8.70
Buzz,  2010,  12,  5.00
Buzz,  2011,  15,  8.33
Buzz,  2012,  8,  10.75
Buzz,  2013,  9,  10.33
Buzz,  2014,  15,  9.20

Buzz Totals: 6 years, 69 losses, 8.54 average margin of loss
         
Wojo,  2015,  19,  11.58
Wojo,  2016,  13,  12.46
Wojo,  2017,  13,  9.15
Wojo,  2018,  14,  10.71
Wojo,  2019,  10,  9.70
Wojo,  2020,  3,  18.00

Wojo Totals: 5+ years, 72 losses, 11.14 margin

It was you or someone else that falsely claimed this a few weeks ago.  Buzz got blown out plenty of times.  Crean did as well.  The memories around here are fleeting at best.

Buzz played against one of the weakest Big East ever in the inaugural year and lost a lot.

Crean had server all years in a good CUSA, but not as good as this Big East.

[skianth16]

I don't think Bailey is our second best player. I don't think he's the second best scoring option either. He's not top 3 in any statistical category. He's got upside, but he's not showing it consistently enough yet.

I think right now Sacar is the only other consistent option on the floor. He gets to the rim regularly, and despite his issues finishing, he's still scoring regularly. He's also really improved his 3pt shooting, now being a good enough shooter to knock down open shots consistently and even making a few tougher shots. He's also a good on ball defender, a decent enough rebounder, and he makes fewer mental mistakes than most of the rest of the team. To me, he's the second most important guy and the second best for us.

[Small Orange Soda]

I don't think Bailey is our second best player. I don't think he's the second best scoring option either. He's not top 3 in any statistical category. He's got upside, but he's not showing it consistently enough yet.

I think right now Sacar is the only other consistent option on the floor. He gets to the rim regularly, and despite his issues finishing, he's still scoring regularly. He's also really improved his 3pt shooting, now being a good enough shooter to knock down open shots consistently and even making a few tougher shots. He's also a good on ball defender, a decent enough rebounder, and he makes fewer mental mistakes than most of the rest of the team. To me, he's the second most important guy and the second best for us.

Agreed.  The biggest question this offseason is going to be how to replace Markus, but Sacar graduating is going to be a tough blow as well.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Tonight sucked. Felt like the Murray State game. Wojo had a game plan for Creighton's normal offense, Coach McD anticipated, ran out a completely different look than what they normally run on offense, and Wojo didn't adjust to it. It's a weakness of Wojo's, when an opposing coach does something unexpected, he doubles down and bets that they will regress to their normal offensive game plan. Sometimes it works but when it doesn't it is ugly.

Last season we got torched by the Jays quick perimeter passing leading to open threes. Wojo planned for that and when we forced them into a longer possession we did a good job rotating and covering all of their shooters. We had a complete and utter failure containing penetration. I've never seen Creighton run so many iso plays. When guys like Ballock are looking to drive instead of pass or shoot it is by design to take advantage of a weakness in the opposing defense. Our inability to stay in front of penetrating guards is maddening but our help defense is elite. Wojo overworried about the three point shot which neutralized our help defenders. I would have liked to see the bigs and forwards to stay home and defend the lane. Dare guys like Mahoney, Jefferson, and Bishop to shoot it. Hell, I may have even tried Guru's suggestion of zone. The 5s need to stay near the basket and I'd like Jamal and Bailey to be closer the lane than the the three point line.

This continues to feel like last season. Blown out by a mediocre B1G team on the road (Indiana/Wisconsin). Blown out by a top 10 team on a neutral court (Kansas/Maryland). Blown out on the road in the conference opener (SJU/Creighton). And we may forget but that loss to Saint John's last season was by a bigger margin and I promise that Creighton will finish a lot of higher in KenPom this year than St. John's did last year. That team earned a 5 seed. I think this team has that capability as well. I'm excited to see if we can do it and hopefully avoid the end of season collapse this time.

Perfect analysis. I always say, when you get spanked like that, it's on the coaches for game prep. The key is always the bounce back game from the stinker, however. 

[WarriorFan]

For those still lamenting the Hauser departure, I believe this year's team would beat last year's team:
Marcus and Sacar are better and basically do the same thing as last year
BB is turning out to fill sam's role reasonably well and more athletically.
Morrow + Cain replace Joey.  Cain provides the offense, Morrow provides the turnovers.
This year has more depth.

As others have noted, this Creighton loss was all about coaching.  Bad game plan that didn't fit what Creighton was doing, but also a defensive philosophy that seems to be "let your guy beat you and then try to block the layup/dunk from behind".

Creighton was killing us with a bunch of 6'5" guys... but Wojo wouldn't match that with our more mobile guys.  BB/Cain/Koby/Markus/Sacar should have seen the bulk of the minutes together.  Change with Greg and Symir for any of them at any time.  Play real defense, switch everything.  In this game, on offense our bigs were like an extra defender and on defense they were useless.  Wojo needs to recognize this and change what he's doing. 

I wonder who had the scout and if this could be part of the issue... but really this L is on wojo.

[#UnleashSean]

For those still lamenting the Hauser departure, I believe this year's team would beat last year's team:
Marcus and Sacar are better and basically do the same thing as last year
BB is turning out to fill sam's role reasonably well and more athletically.
Morrow + Cain replace Joey.  Cain provides the offense, Morrow provides the turnovers.
This year has more depth.

As others have noted, this Creighton loss was all about coaching.  Bad game plan that didn't fit what Creighton was doing, but also a defensive philosophy that seems to be "let your guy beat you and then try to block the layup/dunk from behind".

Creighton was killing us with a bunch of 6'5" guys... but Wojo wouldn't match that with our more mobile guys.  BB/Cain/Koby/Markus/Sacar should have seen the bulk of the minutes together.  Change with Greg and Symir for any of them at any time.  Play real defense, switch everything.  In this game, on offense our bigs were like an extra defender and on defense they were useless.  Wojo needs to recognize this and change what he's doing. 

I wonder who had the scout and if this could be part of the issue... but really this L is on wojo.

No.

[warriorfred]

For those still lamenting the Hauser departure, I believe this year's team would beat last year's team:

I disagree.  This year's team will be lucky to make the NCAA Tournament, and maybe, just maybe could sneak into the Top 25.  But I don't see this year's team going on 6-7 game win streak and beating quality Big East teams on the road.

[mubb3434]

Everyone needs to calm down a bit...We lost a game we were supposed to lose. We have won every game this year we were supposed to win. Winning in Omaha probably wasn't going to happen this year if we played well & Creighton will not lose many games at home. I agree that it's concerning and disappointing the way we lost, but these games happen every single year (usually to worse teams). Time to focus on Nova & hopefully this served as a wake up call!

[muwarrior69]

Everyone needs to calm down a bit...We lost a game we were supposed to lose. We have won every game this year we were supposed to win. Winning in Omaha probably wasn't going to happen this year if we played well & Creighton will not lose many games at home. I agree that it's concerning and disappointing the way we lost, but these games happen every single year (usually to worse teams). Time to focus on Nova & hopefully this served as a wake up call!

What? We lost because we did not play defense; and if you go into a game with the attitude we are suppose to lose....well then we'll lose.

I just take the season one game at a time and refrain from how good or bad the team is. After all it is only a basketball game.

[mubb3434]

What? We lost because we did not play defense; and if you go into a game with the attitude we are suppose to lose....well then we'll lose.

Agreed, but everyone is acting like the  season is over when we just lost one of the toughest games of the year...I remember the same freak out when we lost to Green Bay a few years back & made the elite 8. Only Creighton is way better than GB. This happens every single year.