The finish

[brewcity77]

Brew, I am worried about you lately.

The reality is that we probably aren't winning the national championship this year or going to the Final Four. Short of that, not a lot of difference between the NIT and anything in between. I'm in this for the long haul, so anything that is progress is, well, progress.

Quite simply, I don't want to see a NCAA berth before I die. I want to see a national championship. I've seen the NIT berth, NCAA berth, the second round, the Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final Four. Anything other than cutting down the nets the first Monday in April is just a step toward cutting down the nets the first Monday in April.

That's why I really am not that bothered by NIT vs NCAA. I'd prefer the latter, but if we go to the NIT, we're still going in the right direction.

[BM1090]

The reality is that we probably aren't winning the national championship this year or going to the Final Four. Short of that, not a lot of difference between the NIT and anything in between. I'm in this for the long haul, so anything that is progress is, well, progress.

Quite simply, I don't want to see a NCAA berth before I die. I want to see a national championship. I've seen the NIT berth, NCAA berth, the second round, the Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final Four. Anything other than cutting down the nets the first Monday in April is just a step toward cutting down the nets the first Monday in April.

That's why I really am not that bothered by NIT vs NCAA. I'd prefer the latter, but if we go to the NIT, we're still going in the right direction.

I agree with you for the most part. But I really want the NCAA for two reasons.

1. This drought has been painful. It's only been 3 years, but after 8 consecutive tournaments it feels like an eternity. I definitely want a title in the long term, but short term I would just really love to see this team play in the tournament again.

2. I want the seniors to get to experience March Madness. JJJ, as enigmatic as he is, has stuck out a coaching change. He had plenty of opportunities to leave and for the most part has been a good player for us. I want to see him get to play in a tournament game. Same with Luke.

3. I guess there are 3 reasons. The way this team shoots, the way we look when things are going well, we could take down a 1/2 seed in the 2nd round if we can get on the 9/10 line. Of course, we could also get blown out in the first round, but this team's offensive firepower has the chance to deliver us a good memory or two.

[Babybluejeans]

I agree with you for the most part. But I really want the NCAA for two reasons.

1. This drought has been painful. It's only been 3 years, but after 8 consecutive tournaments it feels like an eternity. I definitely want a title in the long term, but short term I would just really love to see this team play in the tournament again.

2. I want the seniors to get to experience March Madness. JJJ, as enigmatic as he is, has stuck out a coaching change. He had plenty of opportunities to leave and for the most part has been a good player for us. I want to see him get to play in a tournament game. Same with Luke.

3. I guess there are 3 reasons. The way this team shoots, the way we look when things are going well, we could take down a 1/2 seed in the 2nd round if we can get on the 9/10 line. Of course, we could also get blown out in the first round, but this team's offensive firepower has the chance to deliver us a good memory or two.

Yes to all this. Almost all of the 8 straight years in the tournament we knew MU wasn't winning the national championship. But no matter, those few days leading up to the tournament were and are exciting as hell. And I agree this team is capable of striking down a top seed. Plus, getting in the tourney and maybe stealing a game or two is significant in moving closer to the end goal.

[PGsHeroes32]

The reality is that we probably aren't winning the national championship this year or going to the Final Four. Short of that, not a lot of difference between the NIT and anything in between. I'm in this for the long haul, so anything that is progress is, well, progress.

Quite simply, I don't want to see a NCAA berth before I die. I want to see a national championship. I've seen the NIT berth, NCAA berth, the second round, the Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final Four. Anything other than cutting down the nets the first Monday in April is just a step toward cutting down the nets the first Monday in April.

That's why I really am not that bothered by NIT vs NCAA. I'd prefer the latter, but if we go to the NIT, we're still going in the right direction.

I get the progress mindset.

But I just don't understand how you can say that losing in he first weekend is the same as the NIT.

Luckily, I know wojo and the players don't agree on that

[Coleman]

The reality is that we probably aren't winning the national championship this year or going to the Final Four. Short of that, not a lot of difference between the NIT and anything in between. I'm in this for the long haul, so anything that is progress is, well, progress.

Quite simply, I don't want to see a NCAA berth before I die. I want to see a national championship. I've seen the NIT berth, NCAA berth, the second round, the Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final Four. Anything other than cutting down the nets the first Monday in April is just a step toward cutting down the nets the first Monday in April.

That's why I really am not that bothered by NIT vs NCAA. I'd prefer the latter, but if we go to the NIT, we're still going in the right direction.

Yuck. I could not disagree with you more.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I agree with you for the most part. But I really want the NCAA for two reasons.

1. This drought has been painful. It's only been 3 years, but after 8 consecutive tournaments it feels like an eternity. I definitely want a title in the long term, but short term I would just really love to see this team play in the tournament again.

2. I want the seniors to get to experience March Madness. JJJ, as enigmatic as he is, has stuck out a coaching change. He had plenty of opportunities to leave and for the most part has been a good player for us. I want to see him get to play in a tournament game. Same with Luke.

3. I guess there are 3 reasons. The way this team shoots, the way we look when things are going well, we could take down a 1/2 seed in the 2nd round if we can get on the 9/10 line. Of course, we could also get blown out in the first round, but this team's offensive firepower has the chance to deliver us a good memory or two.

Agreed here.  I mean, I get it Brew. This team isn't winning the tourney, but it could hit 30 3s the first weekend of the tourney and find itself in the S16.  Ya just never know. 

And this program needs an NCAA bid.  Just to break up the past several years. Its not the end of the world if it doesn't come this year - progress was still made - but man, it would be refreshing. 

[MUMountin]

The reality is that we probably aren't winning the national championship this year or going to the Final Four. Short of that, not a lot of difference between the NIT and anything in between. I'm in this for the long haul, so anything that is progress is, well, progress.

Quite simply, I don't want to see a NCAA berth before I die. I want to see a national championship. I've seen the NIT berth, NCAA berth, the second round, the Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final Four. Anything other than cutting down the nets the first Monday in April is just a step toward cutting down the nets the first Monday in April.

That's why I really am not that bothered by NIT vs NCAA. I'd prefer the latter, but if we go to the NIT, we're still going in the right direction.

I disagree, because I think total NCAA appearances/streaks are one measure by which we can judge how successful a program is.  Before our streak of 8 years ended in 2014, we were one appearance away from breaking into the Top 10 in terms of NCAA appearances (31).  During our three-year skid, we got passed by UConn, Texas, and Temple, and Arizona tied us for 14th overall.  I'd like to regain some ground on most of those teams (and Indiana!), and start a new streak going, even if that means losing in the first round. 

For more info, see: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=37147.msg710770#msg710770 (not updated to include last year's tourney--I'll update after this year's bids are announced).

Plus, the benefit of just being mentioned in the bracket conversations around the water cooler has an impact on our national relevance, and the TV announcers love to refer to how long streaks of appearances are in terms of demonstrating the sustained success at different schools.   Why not start our next streak of eight (or more) this year?

[Galway Eagle]

I disagree, because I think total NCAA appearances/streaks are one measure by which we can judge how successful a program is.  Before our streak of 8 years ended in 2014, we were one appearance away from breaking into the Top 10 in terms of NCAA appearances (31).  During our three-year skid, we got passed by UConn, Texas, and Temple, and Arizona tied us for 14th overall.  I'd like to regain some ground on most of those teams (and Indiana!), and start a new streak going, even if that means losing in the first round. 

For more info, see: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=37147.msg710770#msg710770 (not updated to include last year's tourney--I'll update after this year's bids are announced).

Plus, the benefit of just being mentioned in the bracket conversations around the water cooler has an impact on our national relevance, and the TV announcers love to refer to how long streaks of appearances are in terms of demonstrating the sustained success at different schools.   Why not start our next streak of eight (or more) this year?

This. It's also why I don't really take pride in AL's turn down the NCAA decision. I'm sure it was cool at the time because it wasn't a massive drop off and we beat dr j and pistol Pete but as years go by and we're fighting for our place amongst the top programs another year of great history would be nice.

[GGGG]

On the upside, I think we are in very good position for a NIT berth. It's not what anyone wants, I realize, but it would still be marked improvement from a year ago despite losing a top-20 NBA pick.

It is progress.  Again maybe not the progress people want, but certainly progress.

[MU82]

I prefer participation in the National Collegiate Athletic Association men's Division 1 basketball tournament to other alternatives.

[wadesworld]

I prefer participation in the National Collegiate Athletic Association men's Division 1 basketball tournament to other alternatives.

+1

[Badgerhater]

The program gets $$$$ for a tourney berth doesn't it?

We discussed tourney credits and the cash to the program quite extensively when on the old Big East, how does it work in the current day?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It is progress.  Again maybe not the progress people want, but certainly progress.

It's more like 'progress' - like in the theoretical sense.

I prefer real accomplishments personally.

[Lennys Tap]

This. It's also why I don't really take pride in AL's turn down the NCAA decision. I'm sure it was cool at the time because it wasn't a massive drop off and we beat dr j and pistol Pete but as years go by and we're fighting for our place amongst the top programs another year of great history would be nice.

I disagree. The NIT was a great tournament back then and we made plenty of history that year. We beat Dr J, the Maraviches and Louie Carneseca AND pissed the NCAA off so much they made future participation in their tournament mandatory if invited. Win, win as Al and MU continued on a wild 13 year ride as college basketball's most interesting and iconoclastic program.

[GGGG]

It's more like 'progress' - like in the theoretical sense.

I prefer real accomplishments personally.

It is.  And it's not theoretical. 

[GGGG]

I disagree. The NIT was a great tournament back then and we made plenty of history that year. We beat Dr J, the Maraviches and Louie Carneseca AND pissed the NCAA off so much they made future participation in their tournament mandatory if invited. Win, win as Al and MU continued on a wild 13 year ride as college basketball's most interesting and iconoclastic program.

Al's win in '77 makes that decision look a little more positive in hindsight. 

[brewcity77]

Maybe I can simplify my point...

NCAA Bid > NIT Bid > Missing both like last year

[Galway Eagle]

I disagree. The NIT was a great tournament back then and we made plenty of history that year. We beat Dr J, the Maraviches and Louie Carneseca AND pissed the NCAA off so much they made future participation in their tournament mandatory if invited. Win, win as Al and MU continued on a wild 13 year ride as college basketball's most interesting and iconoclastic program.

I already acknowledged that it was cool to beat Pistol and Dr J so that's just needlessly circling back. I'm quite certain if we had beat UCLA or even just made the Final Four you'd feel fine that we didn't beat pistol or Dr J.

By that point the NIT was clearly the lesser of the two, still a great tournament sure but the lesser.

Your point about pissing the tournament committee off has to be the college kid in you still talking because truthfully in this day and age nobody remembers nor cares that that happened, they look at Wikipedia and count NCAA births and say "Jeeze they must've crapped the bed in 1970"

[bilsu]

This. It's also why I don't really take pride in AL's turn down the NCAA decision. I'm sure it was cool at the time because it wasn't a massive drop off and we beat dr j and pistol Pete but as years go by and we're fighting for our place amongst the top programs another year of great history would be nice.

That decision still pisses me off. The year before we were a Rick Mount shot away from going to final four and Al gets his undies in a bundle and turns down an NCAA bid.

[mileskishnish72]

Al had that endearing quality of not being good at taking sh*t.

[jsglow]

I disagree. The NIT was a great tournament back then and we made plenty of history that year. We beat Dr J, the Maraviches and Louie Carneseca AND pissed the NCAA off so much they made future participation in their tournament mandatory if invited. Win, win as Al and MU continued on a wild 13 year ride as college basketball's most interesting and iconoclastic program.

This. And the reason that Al turned it down was more important than any basketball game.

[HoopsterBC]

I think the NCAA tournament back then was 32 teams vs. today 64, better field for NIT back then.  Still shocked MU really never was on Dr. J and Al did not even
know the kid back then.  Winning the NIT back then meant alot more.  The years UCLA was great, USC was always as good but not good enough.  Never made the
tournament.

[79Warrior]

I think the NCAA tournament back then was 32 teams vs. today 64, better field for NIT back then.  Still shocked MU really never was on Dr. J and Al did not even
know the kid back then.  Winning the NIT back then meant alot more.  The years UCLA was great, USC was always as good but not good enough.  Never made the
tournament.

In 1970 there were 25 teams in the NCAA tournament. That is why the NIT was, at that time, a solid tournament. Back then all the games were in NYC.

[Galway Eagle]

Nobody is arguing the nit wasn't good but by that time the NCAA was clearly better. And are any of you really going to tell me that you'd prefer thet NIT banner over another FF banner?

[HoopsterBC]

Nobody is arguing the nit wasn't good but by that time the NCAA was clearly better. And are any of you really going to tell me that you'd prefer thet NIT banner over another FF banner?

They were not going to win the NCAA tournament that year, so for MU, a championship was good for there resume at the time.  The next year Jim Chones and Bob
Lackey showed up, different story.