Wojo

[MarquetteDano]

Here we are basihing Wojo, and in the recruiting thread expecting him to land Sam Hauser.  I don't get it.

I think a majority of folks think he is a very good recruiter.  Just like has been asked here many times people question his assistant coach hiring.  As individuals they are all fine.  But one should be a really seasoned X and O guy.  The fact that Wojo hasn't hire one is on him.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Two days later, the losses to Michigan and Pittsburgh both sting hard.  It's no secret that this year had high hopes - not in terms of definitively reaching postseason - but rather finally getting a team that had talent and depth, something that arguably the program has not had since 2012-2013.  The losses exposed holes, there's no doubt, but it is absolutely still way too early to write off the season - and Wojo - for that matter. 

With upcoming games against IUPUI, Houston Baptist, Western Carolina, Saint Francis and SIU-Edwardsville, those are all buy games.  I am not particularly worried about losing any of those games, unless something truly unimaginable occurs.  With additional OOC games against Georgia, Fresno State and Wisconsin, those three games offer additional opportunities against strong competition.

There is still plenty of time to turn this around and compete for a spot in the tournament.  The margin for error is lower, but now we will see what kind of coach Wojo is. What kind of adjustments will he make?  Who will he turn to to right this ship?  How will the players respond? 

We need to take this one game at a time.  If Wojo is not the coach capable of turning this around, then that decision will eventually be made.  But it won't be today, next week or next month.  We need patience and support for our program.

[Big Papi]

Not a Wojo fan here.  The admin messed up.  I get why they had to go to the other extreme when Buzz left but this program is light years away from where Buzz had it and is closer to DePaul then Villanova.  Thankfully, I think we have the resources that we will never get to the DePaul lows but man, this honestly looks like another year that we don't sniff the NCAA tourney.  That is unacceptable for your flagship program and the gobs of money and resources that get thrown that way.

Some of you can hate on Buzz but you really need to take the blue and gold glasses off.  I am sick of the excuses that are made for why this program is struggling.  Buzz left the cupboard bare.  Wait until Wojo gets his players.  Its only 4 games into the season but we whopped on Vandy(middle of the road program in a Power5 conference that is not close to on par as the Big East).  But if you look at Al's first 3 years or Izzo or Coach K or insert coaching statistic that props up Wojo.....  Man, lets be honest here.  When are we going to stop making excuses for how far this program has fallen?

For all of Buzz's warts, and he had a lot of them and should have been let go, he knew how to win.  I don't think Wojo does. 

Buzz was green as grass as a coach and made lots of bad end game decisions early on in his tenure at MU but he acknowledged that and surrounded himself with veteran coaches.  Wojo surrounds himself with younger wannabes and it seems doesn't see or want to fix the problem. 

You knew what Buzz wanted to do when he had the ball and what he wanted to do defensively.  You don't really know what Wojo wants to do other then be uptempo and chuck 3s.  Defensively? Who knows.

Buzz was able to figure out or put in a system based on the talents he has.  Wojo tries to fit his players into whatever system he envisions in his head.

You knew that Buzz valued toughness.  Wojo doesn't. 

I can go on and on but the point is this is year 3 of project that looks like it is stuck in quicksand.  I and many others don't see any improvements on the court. 

If this year turns out the same or worse then last year, we need to cut bait.  And for those that are looking through their blue and gold glasses, we are 1 injury away to Fisher from having a far worse year then last year.  I don't know about the rest of you but my heart was in my stomach when I saw fish on the court in pain against Howard.  Wojo never should have came into this year with only Fisher and Heldt as your only bigs.  That is again on him and his roster makeup.

[real chili 83]

I'm thinking you meant Joey. And yes everyone is irrational. WOJO IS THE WORST! Unless we win today. Oh and if we get Joey, put up a statue of Wojo... but let's hang him cause we went 7/26 from 3.

Him too.

[GWSwarrior]

Dude needs to get his sh1t together. I don't give a rat's ass about excuses.

Show me the f#cking money.

Is the sky falling too?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I want to continue to have patience in Wojo. But at the same time, I just watch Coach Carolyn Kieger and the womens team beat a ranked opponent by double digits.

They started at the exact same time and I really dont think the womens team is any more talented than the mens, but guess what, they started turning it around completely last year and are looking like a NCAA team this year.

Why are there such low expectations for Wojo? The womens team and Coach Kieger started with even a more bare cupboard than Wojo did, but their development is lightyears ahead of the mens. Fair or not, the seat is probably getting warmer if things dont improve quickly.

I just talked with someone about comparing the men's and women's team. We came to three conclusions. 1. Women's basketball is a different animal than men's. 2. Krieger was a grand slam of a hire. 3. I believe it was Dr. BHeart who said we would have been better off letting all of Buzz' player go and starting from scratch. I scoffed at first but maybe it would have been better. Compare Haanif, Howard, and Hauser to JJJ, Duane, and Sandy. Very different kinds of players. Not sure if the styles mesh. We are where we are now so Wojo needs to figure out how to use the roster he has.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I just talked with someone about comparing the men's and women's team. We came to three conclusions. 1. Women's basketball is a different animal than men's. 2. Krieger was a grand slam of a hire. 3. I believe it was Dr. BHeart who said we would have been better off letting all of Buzz' player go and starting from scratch. I scoffed at first but maybe it would have been better. Compare Haanif, Howard, and Hauser to JJJ, Duane, and Sandy. Very different kinds of players. Not sure if the styles mesh. We are where we are now so Wojo needs to figure out how to use the roster he has.

It was me and I was skewered.   

Wojo Recruiting Class 1:  Levin, Wally, Sandy, Carlino. Three transfers.  Wally used two years to get one. Only Sandy played beyond one season.  Levin never made it to The Al. The inevitable then happened which any of us would have predicted:  Mayo (summer), Burton (Xmas), Dawson (Xmas) and Taylor (April) gone as none of them fit Wojo's system. One open scholarship left on the table.  Wasted year.

Wojo Recruiting Class 2:  Nick, Heldt, Henry, Haanif, Traci, Anim, and Rowsey.  Nick signed but never made it. Hank was one and done. Rowsey sat so three years=two. Heldt (injury) and Anim (DNP Coach Decision) were not contributors and are projects even this year. Two scholarships left on table. Great recruiting class, with mixed future implications.

Wojo Recruiting Class 3: Howard, Hauser and Reinhardt.  Katin gives us one year and is playing PF essentially.  Anim red shirts so four=five years. Duane has option to graduate transfer and sees PT reduced.  Rowsey may as well if PT not there. One open scholarship left on the table unused.  Roster miscast and unbalanced which causes identity and playing time issues, while leaving void in the front line depth. Lots for fans to speculate on.

So, seven transfers out/no shows/cuts (with Duane and Sandy a future possibility too). Four one year players (5 a possibility with Rowsey via a log jam at PG). One red shirt and two transfer years without on court productivity. Four unused scholarships.  Other than Haanif, the rest of the recruits remaining have question marks but potential to be seen is there.

Crean, Buzz, Carolyn, etc. went about the ugly business from the get go. Wojo, to me, has squandered his time and resources to turn this thing around and reset his system earlier.  He was hired because of his long term plan, which to be fair, was undisclosed to the public. Fine then. Clearly, it is a minimum five year rebuild plan that he sold in and progress is slow but advancing.  So, here we sit, with a team picked to be in 7th place, and that is where we should set our expectations as fans.

This team is misshapened but when on, will be fun to watch.  It will be exploited when not hitting shots.  No surprises. Wojo will grow with his game prep and situational coaching.

[DienerTime34]

It was me and I was skewered.   

Wojo Recruiting Class 1:  Levin, Wally, Sandy, Carlino. Three transfers.  Wally used two years to get one. Only Sandy played beyond one season.  Levin never made it to The Al. The inevitable then happened which any of us would have predicted:  Mayo (summer), Burton (Xmas), Dawson (Xmas) and Taylor (April) gone as none of them fit Wojo's system. One open scholarship left on the table.  Wasted year.

Wojo Recruiting Class 2:  Nick, Heldt, Henry, Haanif, Traci, Anim, and Rowsey.  Nick signed but never made it. Hank was one and done. Rowsey sat so three years=two. Heldt (injury) and Anim (DNP Coach Decision) were not contributors and are projects even this year. Two scholarships left on table. Great recruiting class, with mixed future implications.

Wojo Recruiting Class 3: Howard, Hauser and Reinhardt.  Katin gives us one year and is playing PF essentially.  Anim red shirts so four=five years. Duane has option to graduate transfer and sees PT reduced.  Rowsey may as well if PT not there. One open scholarship left on the table unused.  Roster miscast and unbalanced which causes identity and playing time issues, while leaving void in the front line depth. Lots for fans to speculate on.

So, seven transfers out/no shows/cuts (with Duane and Sandy a future possibility too). Four one year players (5 a possibility with Rowsey via a log jam at PG). One red shirt and two transfer years without on court productivity. Four unused scholarships.  Other than Haanif, the rest of the recruits remaining have question marks but potential to be seen is there.

Crean, Buzz, Carolyn, etc. went about the ugly business from the get go. Wojo, to me, has squandered his tme and resources to turn this thing around and reset his system earlier.  He was hired because of his long term plan, which to be fair, was undisclosed to the public. Fine then. Clearly, it is a minimum five year rebuild plan that he sold in and progress is slow but advancing.  So, here we sit, with a team picked to be in 7th place, and that is where we should set our expectations as fans.

This team is misshapened but when on, while be fun to watch.  It will be exploited when not hitting shots.  No surprises. Wojo will grow with his game prep and situational coaching.

So 2018-2019 is when we should start to get excited. Coincides with the new stadium opening and when the Bucks expect to start competing for the Finals. That's fine, it's just going to be a LOOOONG two years.

[ecompt]

If no tournament the next two years, Wojo will have to buy a ticket to get into the new building. A career assistant.

[dgies9156]

OK, I'll start by saying I'm firmly in Wojo's corner.

This was not a one-year or two-year turn-around. I had hoped this year would be a tournament year and by the time the arena opens, we'd be an elite team again. May still happen but Michigan and Pitt suggests we have a long way to go yet.

I'm of the belief (see other posting) Wojo needs a seasoned, long-time assistant or former head coach as a bench associate. I don't want to effect recruiting because we're doing a great job getting the talent we want into MU. Wojo needs a mentor, or as I said elsewhere, he needs a Hank (Raymonds).

If this Board has its way and we bounce Wojo, what's behind him? I'm not in the mood to start over and I think with some minor adjustments, we're where we need to be. I also am giving our coach the benefit of the doubt and figure we will get better as the season rolls on.

It's four games, folks.

[fjm]

Agree. I'm pro Wojo.

It's 4 games. Got smoked by mich who is better than we all thought. And blew a lead to Pitt which shouldn't have happened.

Lose Wojo and we lose the recruiting and we start the rebuild over. That doesn't sound great. Also I think Wojo is a good person and good for the team.

Patience. Wojo has only missed the tourney 2 times. First year was a guaranteed miss. Last year we should have had NIT if not for all those midmajors losing their conference tourneys.

3 year drought. I blame the first two years on Buzz.

[1SE]

OK, I'll start by saying I'm firmly in Wojo's corner.

This was not a one-year or two-year turn-around. I had hoped this year would be a tournament year and by the time the arena opens, we'd be an elite team again. May still happen but Michigan and Pitt suggests we have a long way to go yet.

I'm of the belief (see other posting) Wojo needs a seasoned, long-time assistant or former head coach as a bench associate. I don't want to effect recruiting because we're doing a great job getting the talent we want into MU. Wojo needs a mentor, or as I said elsewhere, he needs a Hank (Raymonds).

If this Board has its way and we bounce Wojo, what's behind him? I'm not in the mood to start over and I think with some minor adjustments, we're where we need to be. I also am giving our coach the benefit of the doubt and figure we will get better as the season rolls on.

It's four games, folks.

We didn't want a four? No excuse for a program with our resources not to have at least a serviceable player at each position every year.

[Warriors88]

What concerns me more than anything is how we are becoming irrelevant on the national stage.  Think about what mark this program has left over the last 3 years.  Other than the signing of Henry when else have we made national news?   Maybe wins against Wiscy and Providence last year made news.  Other than that we are on our way to irrelevancy.

And when we have a chance to make a statement in a big game not only do we lose but we get blown out.  Its flat out embarrassing.

We make very little noise in the non conf games, get blown out in our games against top tier teams in the Big East, and then do squat in the BE tournament. 

This coach, staff and players need to get this program to where we are back to being a highly regarded program at the national level.  And that needs to happen this year.

[Johnny B]

The players don't know the fundamentals!!! so many silly turnovers, charges, bad passes etc. circus shots. the guys are lost out there and idk who else to blame at this point other than the coaching. its disgusting how poor the descion making is on the court sometimes. you look at Nova and its just night and day. if wojo doesn't turn it around this year then I say let him go.

[keefe]

Is the sky falling too?

This isn't the end of the world. What it is, however, is a Marquette program mired in mediocrity.

There is no discernible progress towards the performance we all want which is measured in NCAA Tournament success.

Does the Scoop Charter contain a codicil requiring absolute adherence to some "feel good" zeitgeist? (which is, in fact, what Johnny Dodds demands over at Scout...)   

Fact is, our basketball team is not competitive for success in the Big East, much less even making the NCAA tournament. Pointing out a legitimate concern is not the same as being destructive.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Pointing out a legitimate concern is not the same as being destructive.

Agreed. But declaring our team not competitive four games into the season due to one blow out loss to a good team is.

[keefe]

Agreed. But declaring our team not competitive four games into the season due to one blow out loss to a good team is.

Watching the U of M and Pitt film tells the story. We were not competitive but why? Blue schooled us at both ends of the court. It was painful to watch.

And the Pitt collapse? A very different set of failures.

The performance of the Marquette Men's Basketball Team thus far is mediocre. Hell, Michigan's hoops team is middle of the pack in the Big 10. God help us against Villanova and X.
   

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Agreed. But declaring our team not competitive four games into the season due to one blow out loss to a good team is.

I dont think anybody is remotely concerned with the blowout loss to Michigan, it happens. Vandy in 2011-12 Florida the next year, I can deal along with most people here, a big loss to a good team. What is absolutely inexcusable is blowing a 15 point lead to a mediocre at best Pittsburgh team. Pitt aint anything special.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Watching the U of M and Pitt film tells the story. We were not competitive but why? Blue schooled us at both ends of the court. It was painful to watch.

And the Pitt collapse? A very different set of failures.

The performance of the Marquette Men's Basketball Team thus far is mediocre. Hell, Michigan's hoops team is middle of the pack in the Big 10. God help us against Villanova and X.
 

I forgot how badly all those seasons under buzz went after he got blown out by vandy, Tennessee, Florida, DAYTON, etc.

The Pitt loss hurt but was hardly damning. It was a three point loss on a neutral court to a solid team. We make out to be worse because we have up a big lead. Would it actually be any better if we had gotten blown out in the first half and then fought all the way back only to lose by three?

The team that showed up against vandy is a top half of the big east team. The team that showed up against Michigan is a big east bottom feeder. There is just as much proof that this team is destined for dancing as there is for the contrary. But for some reason  some only want to look at the negative. I'm not saying the vandy game is what we should expect. I'm saying look at the whole picture.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Edited to now add the Sandy transfer this afternoon. 

It was me and I was skewered.   

Wojo Recruiting Class 1:  Levin, Wally, Sandy, Carlino. Three transfers.  Wally used two years to get one. Only Sandy played beyond one season, and now he is gone.  Levin never made it to The Al. The inevitable then happened which any of us would have predicted:  Mayo (summer), Burton (Xmas), Dawson (Xmas) and Taylor (April) gone as none of them fit Wojo's system. One open scholarship left on the table.  Wasted year.

Wojo Recruiting Class 2:  Nick, Heldt, Henry, Haanif, Traci, Anim, and Rowsey.  Nick signed but never made it. Hank was one and done. Rowsey sat so three years=two. Heldt (injury) and Anim (DNP Coach Decision) were not contributors and are projects even this year. Two scholarships left on table. Great recruiting class, with mixed future implications.

Wojo Recruiting Class 3: Howard, Hauser and Reinhardt.  Katin gives us one year and is playing PF essentially.  Anim red shirts so four=five years. Duane has option to graduate transfer and sees PT reduced.  Rowsey may as well if PT not there. One open scholarship left on the table unused.  Roster miscast and unbalanced which causes identity and playing time issues, while leaving void in the front line depth. Lots for fans to speculate on.

So, eight transfers out/no shows/cuts (with Duane a future possibility too besides Sandy today). Four one year players (5 a possibility with Rowsey via a log jam at PG). One red shirt and two transfer years without on court productivity. Four unused scholarships.  Other than Haanif, the rest of the recruits remaining have question marks but potential to be seen is there.

Crean, Buzz, Carolyn, etc. went about the ugly business from the get go. Wojo, to me, has squandered his time and resources to turn this thing around and reset his system earlier.  He was hired because of his long term plan, which to be fair, was undisclosed to the public. Fine then. Clearly, it is a minimum five year rebuild plan that he sold in and progress is slow but advancing.  So, here we sit, with a team picked to be in 7th place, and that is where we should set our expectations as fans.

This team is misshapened but when on, will be fun to watch.  It will be exploited when not hitting shots.  No surprises. Wojo will grow with his game prep and situational coaching.

[Boone]

Blowouts in the Buzz era Wojo weren't particularly worrisome b/c his teams always bounced back and made the NCAAs. Wojo's teams, on the other hand...

[keefe]

I forgot how badly all those seasons under buzz went after he got blown out by vandy, Tennessee, Florida, DAYTON, etc.

The Pitt loss hurt but was hardly damning. It was a three point loss on a neutral court to a solid team. We make out to be worse because we have up a big lead. Would it actually be any better if we had gotten blown out in the first half and then fought all the way back only to lose by three?

The team that showed up against vandy is a top half of the big east team. The team that showed up against Michigan is a big east bottom feeder. There is just as much proof that this team is destined for dancing as there is for the contrary. But for some reason  some only want to look at the negative. I'm not saying the vandy game is what we should expect. I'm saying look at the whole picture.

Tell you what. When we are in the Sweet Sixteen this March I will concede the point. But from what I saw in the past two games we are no where near sniffing the Dance.

[rocket surgeon]

Watching the U of M and Pitt film tells the story. We were not competitive but why? Blue schooled us at both ends of the court. It was painful to watch.

And the Pitt collapse? A very different set of failures.

The performance of the Marquette Men's Basketball Team thus far is mediocre. Hell, Michigan's hoops team is middle of the pack in the Big 10. God help us against Villanova and X.
 

keefe'r-i don't think you are giving your other MU enough credit.  i think the preseason scouting report on michigan was deceivingly under-whelming.  yes, i realize there are no participation trophies given out at this level, but we made a helluva run at them in the 2nd half. 

[connie]

"You don't really know what Wojo wants to do other then be uptempo and chuck 3s.  Defensively? Who knows."

I sure don't.  I'm sure there is a plan there and I am not smart enough to see it, probably because I am tired of wasted years and won't spend the time to try to figure it out.  Buzz's last year--total waste is all areas.  Wojo 1--waste.  Wojo 2- some good juice, but poor wine.  Wojo 3--Isn't it odd when one of your first recruits leaves ten days into season 3?  I'm getting tired of keeping an open mind and respecting the process.  I don't know who this team is but this seems like year three of trying to make them something they are not.  It's getting old. 

[dgies9156]

This isn't the end of the world. What it is, however, is a Marquette program mired in mediocrity.

There is no discernible progress towards the performance we all want which is measured in NCAA Tournament success.

Does the Scoop Charter contain a codicil requiring absolute adherence to some "feel good" zeitgeist? (which is, in fact, what Johnny Dodds demands over at Scout...)   

Fact is, our basketball team is not competitive for success in the Big East, much less even making the NCAA tournament. Pointing out a legitimate concern is not the same as being destructive.

Keefe, I've lived and died with Marquette basketball so long that I can't remember Marquette ever not being a part of our home. Probably because it always has been.

I'm disappointed and, candidly, aggravated. I want to be in the NCAA and success isn't just getting in. Success is being an elite program. But, Wojo had better be the right guy and we are on our way -- the alternative is mind-numbingly disconcerting. If he left, the transfers, the reconstruction and rebuilding would have us in never never land until about 2023.

We can't go back. We have to consider where we are. What would you propose we do at this point? I'm all ears -- or eyes as the case may be -- on this one!

And to those of you comparing Wojo to the Hillbilly out in cornfield county, well, the Hillbilly developed all of one freshman in his tenure with us -- and that didn't happen until Vader Blue's junior year.