Wojo

[wadesworld]

Really wasn't. I'm not re having that argument.

Okay. Well he was gowne after a season from the day we started recruiting him. Hank being on the 2016-2017 Marquette basketball team was as likely as me being on the 2016-2017 Marquette basketball team. Could either in theory be possible? Sure. If professional basketball leagues got cancelled for eternity then Hank may have come back for a sophomore season, just like if I grew a foot and a hundred pounds as a then 26 year old without losing any coordination whatsoever Wojo may have given some thought to offering me a scholarship to play basketball at MU this year. But in reality? He gowne being a 19 year old millionaire and I'm still a 5'10, 155 lb now 27 year old who could smoke JayBee in a 3 point shooting contest.

[keefe]

re having

You made that word up

I buy you a beer if it makes it into the Oxford Dictionary

[mu03eng]

You made that word up

I buy you a beer if it makes it into the Oxford Dictionary

Not sure it's post factual enough to make it.

[Norm]

Norm, I don't live anywhere near Milwaukee. I get my info on MU hoops from reading stuff here, reading Matt's stuff in the JS and, of course, from watching games. Although I love MU hoops, I consider myself quite capable of doing objective analysis.

I think Wojo has been a very good recruiter. He seems quite good at selling the program to kids' parents.

I happen to think he's been a pretty good motivator. For example, some here made fun of Wojo taking away the team warmups last season ... but the team did respond after that. Had Al done it and achieved similar results, we'd still be talking about it as a legendary move. Even tonight's game against IUPUI after the tough loss to Pitt ... the Warriors were extremely active and aggressive; Wojo deserves at least a little credit for that, no?

I think his game coaching is a work in progress. As has been pointed out by others, he is getting better at designing plays out of time-outs but he maybe he's still a little slow sometimes at making strategic changes.

When I or somebody else points out that Al and Jay Wright and Coach K and countless other outstanding coaches were struggling just as much at this stage of their careers, we get told by impatient, frustrated or less-optimistic Scoopers that such comparisons are irrelevant or nonsensical. But it's OK to compare Wojo to whom? Buzz? Cal? Shaka?

It's obviously only my opinion, but I see no reason to change my stance that Wojo has shown to be good at some things while needing to improve at some others.

Thanks for the reply MU82.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You made that word up

I buy you a beer if it makes it into the Oxford Dictionary

Technically I spelled it as two words, so wouldn't it be "you made that phrase up"? 

[Dr. Blackheart]

You made that word up

I buy you a beer if it makes it into the Oxford Dictionary

Merimam not Oxford, but...close enough to earn at least an O'Dule's, ai-na?

"to have and have not"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rehave

[Eldon]

You made that word up

I buy you a beer if it makes it into the Oxford Dictionary

rehave?

[4everwarriors]

53 and you are an old man? I'm 55 and don't consider myself to be an old man.

Wait 'til your Johnson goes south, hey?

[Herman Cain]

Wait 'til your Johnson goes south, hey?

I think we pay Stan good money, so he will stay up  in the North with us.

[Herman Cain]

Hoya board actively discussing JT3 ouster

http://hoyatalk2.proboards.com/thread/29092/jt-iii-coaching-discussion?page=148

[bilsu]

[quote author=MU82 link=topic=52652.msg874235#msg874235 date=1479874669

When I or somebody else points out that Al and Jay Wright and Coach K and countless other outstanding coaches were struggling just as much at this stage of their careers,
[/quote]
I pointed this out in the past. However, Al took over a program that went 5-21 the year before.
he went
8-18
14-12
21-9 NIT championship game
23-6 missed final 4 on Rick Mount buzzer beater.
Given the number of teams that went to NCAA and NIT the NIT was the equivalent of today's bid to NCAA.
Wojo is not on the same trajectory as AL was.
However, Al had an advantage in that he identified with the African-American player at a time when many southern teams were refusing to recruit African-American players.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think we pay Stan good money, so he will stay up  in the North with us.

I loled

[MU82]

[quote author=MU82 link=topic=52652.msg874235#msg874235 date=1479874669

When I or somebody else points out that Al and Jay Wright and Coach K and countless other outstanding coaches were struggling just as much at this stage of their careers,

I pointed this out in the past. However, Al took over a program that went 5-21 the year before.
he went
8-18
14-12
21-9 NIT championship game
23-6 missed final 4 on Rick Mount buzzer beater.
Given the number of teams that went to NCAA and NIT the NIT was the equivalent of today's bid to NCAA.
Wojo is not on the same trajectory as AL was.
However, Al had an advantage in that he identified with the African-American player at a time when many southern teams were refusing to recruit African-American players.

Agree that the eras were very different. I was just making the point that a lot of very successful coaches, including Al, had less-than-wonderful starts.

The point is irrefutable.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[We R Final Four]

Agree that the eras were very different. I was just making the point that a lot of very successful coaches, including Al, had less-than-wonderful starts.

The point is irrefutable.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Yes--however ALOT of bad coaches who were eventually fired from their position also had bad starts. Hope we have the former. Time will tell.

[brewcity77]

I was wondering today if the season ticket and general fan apathy might be more down to Wojo than I initially thought. Three different people today who are the casual Marquette fan types (go to a few games, pay attention after the Super Bowl) asked me skeptically what I thought of Wojo. I could tell they were completely just trying to get a read.

With Buzz, his quirkiness and personality never led to apathy. Crean bringing us back to the Final Four and always engaging with fans made him likeable for passive fans. But Wojo doesn't have that rah rah mindset. The lack of immediate success coupled with the fairly dry, coach speak personality doesn't seem to have resonated with the fans that largely make the difference between selling 12,000 and 15,000 per game.

Winning is still the ultimate panacea, but it surprised me how much skepticism I felt from people on the outside looking in.

[RJax55]

I was wondering today if the season ticket and general fan apathy might be more down to Wojo than I initially thought. Three different people today who are the casual Marquette fan types (go to a few games, pay attention after the Super Bowl) asked me skeptically what I thought of Wojo. I could tell they were completely just trying to get a read.

With Buzz, his quirkiness and personality never led to apathy. Crean bringing us back to the Final Four and always engaging with fans made him likeable for passive fans. But Wojo doesn't have that rah rah mindset. The lack of immediate success coupled with the fairly dry, coach speak personality doesn't seem to have resonated with the fans that largely make the difference between selling 12,000 and 15,000 per game.

Winning is still the ultimate panacea, but it surprised me how much skepticism I felt from people on the outside looking in.

The other thing about Wojo, right or wrong, is that he is thought of as a Duke guy. That's how people, I think even casual MU fans view him. Its going to take some real success to change that view.

[Herman Cain]

I was wondering today if the season ticket and general fan apathy might be more down to Wojo than I initially thought. Three different people today who are the casual Marquette fan types (go to a few games, pay attention after the Super Bowl) asked me skeptically what I thought of Wojo. I could tell they were completely just trying to get a read.

With Buzz, his quirkiness and personality never led to apathy. Crean bringing us back to the Final Four and always engaging with fans made him likeable for passive fans. But Wojo doesn't have that rah rah mindset. The lack of immediate success coupled with the fairly dry, coach speak personality doesn't seem to have resonated with the fans that largely make the difference between selling 12,000 and 15,000 per game.

Winning is still the ultimate panacea, but it surprised me how much skepticism I felt from people on the outside looking in.

You are making a very good point.

The coach speak corporate mind set that Wojo exudes turns off many people. College Basketball is most exciting when you have a colorful character as a coach.  Combine the lack of compelling personality with a mediocre product and you have the elements which create fan apathy.

[MU82]

Yes--however ALOT of bad coaches who were eventually fired from their position also had bad starts. Hope we have the former. Time will tell.

All true.

There also have been plenty of coaches who have had good starts but then trailed off to mediocrity, usually after they had to start trying to win with their own recruits. Bruce Weber leaps to mind, but there have been many others.

Most true of all: Time will tell. Or, as I like to say, "We'll see."

I don't pretend to have all the answers. I just choose to be optimistic until given a reason not to be.

[brewcity77]

All true.

There also have been plenty of coaches who have had good starts but then trailed off to mediocrity, usually after they had to start trying to win with their own recruits. Bruce Weber leaps to mind, but there have been many others.

Most true of all: Time will tell. Or, as I like to say, "We'll see."

I don't pretend to have all the answers. I just choose to be optimistic until given a reason not to be.

Thus far, I'd say Wojo has been in a limited sample size the best recruiter we've seen at Marquette in the past 20 years. He's hit on the big names he reeled in, Ellenson and Howard are both players, but he's also done well with the guys further down and outside the top-100. Hauser and Cheatham look like studs. Carter and Heldt both look like they can at least be productive players. He seems to be better at closing the deal than Crean and better at evaluating high school talent than Buzz.

We can't really judge Wojo on how he did with the talent that was left for him because there simply wasn't enough talent here to win with. He'll have to win with his own guys. No idea how well he'll be able to do that, but the problem won't be the lack of pieces.

[MU82]

Thus far, I'd say Wojo has been in a limited sample size the best recruiter we've seen at Marquette in the past 20 years. He's hit on the big names he reeled in, Ellenson and Howard are both players, but he's also done well with the guys further down and outside the top-100. Hauser and Cheatham look like studs. Carter and Heldt both look like they can at least be productive players. He seems to be better at closing the deal than Crean and better at evaluating high school talent than Buzz.

We can't really judge Wojo on how he did with the talent that was left for him because there simply wasn't enough talent here to win with. He'll have to win with his own guys. No idea how well he'll be able to do that, but the problem won't be the lack of pieces.

Nicely stated.

Again, we'll see.

[Babybluejeans]

I was wondering today if the season ticket and general fan apathy might be more down to Wojo than I initially thought. Three different people today who are the casual Marquette fan types (go to a few games, pay attention after the Super Bowl) asked me skeptically what I thought of Wojo. I could tell they were completely just trying to get a read.

With Buzz, his quirkiness and personality never led to apathy. Crean bringing us back to the Final Four and always engaging with fans made him likeable for passive fans. But Wojo doesn't have that rah rah mindset. The lack of immediate success coupled with the fairly dry, coach speak personality doesn't seem to have resonated with the fans that largely make the difference between selling 12,000 and 15,000 per game.

Winning is still the ultimate panacea, but it surprised me how much skepticism I felt from people on the outside looking in.

This is compelling. We've been fortunate to have such interesting and unique characters define the program as coaches. Al, Rick, TC, Buzz. Those dudes made it fun to follow the team in a way that made you feel like there was something different going on. 

[muhoops1]

The past few years (including Buzz's final year...ESPECIALLY the Ohio State home game) the atmosphere has been anticeptic.  I remember the 70's with Al, the 80's with Majerus, '03 and the 3 Amigos.  The BC feels cavernous and empty.  Not much energy of late.

[jsglow]

The past few years (including Buzz's final year...ESPECIALLY the Ohio State home game) the atmosphere has been anticeptic.  I remember the 70's with Al, the 80's with Majerus, '03 and the 3 Amigos. The BC feels cavernous and empty.  Not much energy of late.

That's because it has been cavernous and empty.  There hasn't been any real excitement since the BEast Championship banner went up.  Only winning, especially at home, solves that.

[Daniel]

We have to be contenders.   Just winning cupcakes won't do it.  Start beating the BEast teams at home (and on the road) and some excitement will return. 

Anyone  know what season tickets sales were this year?  I thought last year we were down 2,500.  You have to win.  You have to be a contender.

[Golden Avalanche]

That's because it has been cavernous and empty.  There hasn't been any real excitement since the BEast Championship banner went up.  Only winning, especially at home, solves that.

We've been an in denial fairweather fanbase for 30 years. The tonic has only ever been winning.