Hoya thoughts

[79Warrior]

He is one of the more selfish players I have seen in some time. He played the same way before college. Everyone in the house knows he is going to shoot the minute he gets the ball. That is one of the reasons his production has been poor against the better teams.

He is using our program as an attempt to showcase for himself, that is why he came here. I don't attribute it to freshman growing pains.

Wojo needs to grow a set of cajones and treat him the same way he treats JJJ. Bench him when he misses a shot.

I would not bench him for missing a shot. I would sit his ass down with all is ill advised three point shooting.

[WarriorFan]

Or, said in another way, should Coach Wojo more tightly define the roles of his two bigs?
.

Spot-on Barn. 
I like Luke cutting or on the pick and roll, or back to the basket from the post when his defender has one foul in the first half or 3 + fouls in the 2nd half, or when his defender is smaller/weaker.

I like Henry facing the basket from 15 feet in.  He should be free to do whatever he can from that position.  Beyond 15 feet - pass and re-postion.  Back to the basket - pass and re-position.

We need more pick and roll, and we need more guys positioned on the weak side base line for the relief pass when the bigs get doubled. 
And we need more drive & dish. 

[WarriorFan]

He is one of the more selfish players I have seen in some time. He played the same way before college. Everyone in the house knows he is going to shoot the minute he gets the ball. That is one of the reasons his production has been poor against the better teams.

He is using our program as an attempt to showcase for himself, that is why he came here. I don't attribute it to freshman growing pains.

Wojo needs to grow a set of cajones and treat him the same way he treats JJJ. Bench him when he misses a shot.

Slow down NY.  He's a freshman.  Passing requires understanding the movements of 9 other players.  Shooting or driving requires understanding self and possibly the defender.  These are acquired skills that he's never had to learn yet.  Problem is, the offense leaves Henry stranded quite often, with no-one to kick to if he drives and no secondary cutter to get the ball when Henry is doubled.  I hope Wojo is seeing this.  We need Henry to continue learning... and Wojo to tweak a few things so he has option.

No assassination attempts yet, please!

[jesmu84]

He is one of the more selfish players I have seen in some time. He played the same way before college. Everyone in the house knows he is going to shoot the minute he gets the ball. That is one of the reasons his production has been poor against the better teams.

He is using our program as an attempt to showcase for himself, that is why he came here. I don't attribute it to freshman growing pains.

Wojo needs to grow a set of cajones and treat him the same way he treats JJJ. Bench him when he misses a shot.

Your JJJ obsession is bordering Ners-levels

[GGGG]

Slow down NY.  He's a freshman.  Passing requires understanding the movements of 9 other players.  Shooting or driving requires understanding self and possibly the defender.  These are acquired skills that he's never had to learn yet.  Problem is, the offense leaves Henry stranded quite often, with no-one to kick to if he drives and no secondary cutter to get the ball when Henry is doubled.  I hope Wojo is seeing this.  We need Henry to continue learning... and Wojo to tweak a few things so he has option.

Exactly.  Especially since he went to a high school where he was pretty much the entire offense.  MU Fan in NY is complaining that he did the same thing in high school.  Well that's because he had to.  It's frickin' Rice Lake!!!

I have absolutely no problem with Wojo defining his role better.  I have no problem with Wojo sitting him down at times and talking to him about bad shots.  That doesn't mean he is a selfish player or only looking out for himself.  Nothing I have heard about him or his attitude indicates that is the case.  Not even close.

[jesmu84]

Exactly.  Especially since he went to a high school where he was pretty much the entire offense.  MU Fan in NY is complaining that he did the same thing in high school.  Well that's because he had to.  It's frickin' Rice Lake!!!

I have absolutely no problem with Wojo defining his role better.  I have no problem with Wojo sitting him down at times and talking to him about bad shots.  That doesn't mean he is a selfish player or only looking out for himself.  Nothing I have heard about him or his attitude indicates that is the case.  Not even close.

That's because this really has nothing to do with Henry. This is MUNY's clear obsession with JJJ and his interpretation of unfair treatment of JJJ

[Herman Cain]

That's because this really has nothing to do with Henry. This is MUNY's clear obsession with JJJ and his interpretation of unfair treatment of JJJ

What I am saying is what is good for the goose is good for the gander. JJJ was a highly touted recruit with exceptional skills. Nonetheless, he made bad decisions and found his way to the bench . JJJ is now making much better decisions and playing within the structure the coach has devised. I think Henry deserves similar treatment. He has terrible shot selection, makes a lot of bad choices and it is my point of view that he is showcasing himself at the expense of the team. Coach Wojo is willing to point the finger of blame at everyone else on the team except Henry, who is sacrosanct. 

[naginiF]

What I am saying is what is good for the goose is good for the gander. JJJ was a highly touted recruit with exceptional skills. Nonetheless, he made bad decisions and found his way to the bench . JJJ is now making much better decisions and playing within the structure the coach has devised. I think Henry deserves similar treatment. He has terrible shot selection, makes a lot of bad choices and it is my point of view that he is showcasing himself at the expense of the team. Coach Wojo is willing to point the finger of blame at everyone else on the team except Henry, who is sacrosanct.

I realize i'm like the 5th person to request this....but can you provide the instances where Wojo points the finger of blame at people on the team and specifically Luke?

BTW - i'm hoping you are referring to his post GT interview with Homer where he says Luke 'needs to play better and is capable of playing better' because if that is "ripping into" Luke i feel really bad for anyone that's had to give you a performance review.

[bilsu]

I do not think Ellenson is a selfish player. In fact I do not think MU utilizes him enough. The three point shots, outside of the fact they did not go in, generally are good shots. He needs to take more 5 to 15th foot shots and probably should be shooting 5 more times a game. Utilizing him more will make things easier for Fischer. I see his drives to the basket as more of a problem than his three point shooting. He misses a lot of drives and part of that is he gets hit and refs do not give him the foul. It also puts him at risk for an offensive foul. Wojo coaches his players not to foul and as a consequence defense can be less aggressive. Until MU designs it offense to take good three point shots the inside game is going to suffer as the other teams are going to pack it in. The was the whole Derrick Wilson argument and the problem the last two games still exists.

[GGGG]

What I am saying is what is good for the goose is good for the gander. JJJ was a highly touted recruit with exceptional skills. Nonetheless, he made bad decisions and found his way to the bench . JJJ is now making much better decisions and playing within the structure the coach has devised. I think Henry deserves similar treatment. He has terrible shot selection, makes a lot of bad choices and it is my point of view that he is showcasing himself at the expense of the team. Coach Wojo is willing to point the finger of blame at everyone else on the team except Henry, who is sacrosanct. 

I don't think JJJ has exceptional skills.  He's not touted as anything close to an NBA draft pick much less a lottery pick.  And I trust that Wojo knows how to instruct and motivate his players much more than you or I do.

And regardless, what does Wojo's handling of JJJ have to do with Henry being "selfish" in your mind?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

You are correct Henry is all about Henry. When he focuses on the team he will actually become a much better player.

Thanks Tex

[brewcity77]

Wojo is quickly learning the difference between ACC tough and BEAST tough.  Soon he'll stop walking past 6'7 240-250 pounders during his recruiting visits.

Someone mentioned this elsewhere, but I think this is a HUGE problem for the Big East. Look at the difference in officiating between November/December and the start of conference play. Not just against the cupcakes, but all around. Physical play was discouraged. Charges were down as refs were calling more blocks, especially when players weren't well established. When Luke and Henry were swatted at in the post, fouls were called and they went to the line.

Suddenly, conference play starts and all that ends. Refs go back to allowing the guys to play. We get whistled for 6 charges in one game, maybe 2 of which would have been charges a week earlier. Big men are constantly harassing us down low with no fouls being called. This is not a Marquette problem, this is a Big East problem, and frankly, if this league has any designs on long-term success, it needs to be fixed.

This goes back to the Old Big East. We have always had that rough and tumble, physical league that allows teams to play, looks the other way for fouls, and is overly generous to the defense. I truly think that come March, this is a huge negative. When these teams get into tournament play, they will be expecting to get away with stuff that has been allowed for 3 months. They will figure they can slide in late and draw a charge, not get called when they body a guy up on defense, and generally throw themselves around while the refs inhale their whistles. Suddenly tourney time comes and those are all fouls, you end up with 2-3 key players in foul trouble, and you're packing your bags.

I wish our league had refs that called games more like the ACC. I have a feeling it'd be far more valuable come March when games really matter.

[MUfan12]

I wish our league had refs that called games more like the ACC. I have a feeling it'd be far more valuable come March when games really matter.

The league made a huge mistake when it hired Cahill to select the officials.

[GooooMarquette]

What I am saying is what is good for the goose is good for the gander. JJJ was a highly touted recruit with exceptional skills. Nonetheless, he made bad decisions and found his way to the bench . JJJ is now making much better decisions and playing within the structure the coach has devised. I think Henry deserves similar treatment. He has terrible shot selection, makes a lot of bad choices and it is my point of view that he is showcasing himself at the expense of the team. Coach Wojo is willing to point the finger of blame at everyone else on the team except Henry, who is sacrosanct.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume your arguments about decision-making, shot selection and bad choices are correct.  [For the record, I don't think they are, but I'll indulge you for discussion's sake.]

Throughout JJJ's career, we have always had other guys capable of playing the 2/3, so benching him for mistakes has always been a viable option.

Henry, on the other hand, is our best option - our only true option - at the 4.  If Wojo benches him, who will get max minutes at the 4?  Wally?  Sandy?  JJJ?

You treat players the same if the circumstances are the same.  If the circumstances are different, you adjust accordingly.

[mu-rara]

One thing that stood out

MU 10 assists
GT 20 assists (IIRC)

MU had a couple of really nice possessions when they used quick ball movement around the perimeter.  Not enough of a coach to know why that does not happen more frequently.

[vogue65]

The league made a huge mistake when it hired Cahill to select the officials.

I think this is a very important point and why the BIG EAST never goes far in the tournament.   We play rough and tumble all season and then in the tournament with run off the mill refs. it's time to pack up and go home.

[MU82]

For the sake of discussion, let's assume your arguments about decision-making, shot selection and bad choices are correct.  [For the record, I don't think they are, but I'll indulge you for discussion's sake.]

Throughout JJJ's career, we have always had other guys capable of playing the 2/3, so benching him for mistakes has always been a viable option.

Henry, on the other hand, is our best option - our only true option - at the 4.  If Wojo benches him, who will get max minutes at the 4?  Wally?  Sandy?  JJJ?

You treat players the same if the circumstances are the same.  If the circumstances are different, you adjust accordingly.

Oooo nooo, Gooo ... you beat me to this! I was going to make the exact same point.

I also was going echo Sultan's point about JJJ being nowhere near as highly thought of as Henry -- not even close -- so equal treatment is a quaint but dopey notion. You show me a coach who says he truly treats all of his players equally, and I'll show you a coach who is a liar.

MarqNY also refuses to state what Wojo said on-air to Homer about Luke that constitutes "ripping." I didn't hear it, but nagin said in a post a little while ago that Wojo simply said Luke "needs to play better and is capable of playing better." Given that MarqNY won't address specifics but keeps throwing out the "rip" line, I assume nagin is correct and MarqNY is misrepresenting Wojo's words and intent.

Pretty pathetic, MarqNY. Reminds me of the desperation heaves the folks on our politics board constantly make in their lame efforts to prove they are right.

[mu03eng]

So is MarqNY the 2nd incarnation of Tex or Ners?

[mu03eng]

Someone mentioned this elsewhere, but I think this is a HUGE problem for the Big East. Look at the difference in officiating between November/December and the start of conference play. Not just against the cupcakes, but all around. Physical play was discouraged. Charges were down as refs were calling more blocks, especially when players weren't well established. When Luke and Henry were swatted at in the post, fouls were called and they went to the line.

Suddenly, conference play starts and all that ends. Refs go back to allowing the guys to play. We get whistled for 6 charges in one game, maybe 2 of which would have been charges a week earlier. Big men are constantly harassing us down low with no fouls being called. This is not a Marquette problem, this is a Big East problem, and frankly, if this league has any designs on long-term success, it needs to be fixed.

This goes back to the Old Big East. We have always had that rough and tumble, physical league that allows teams to play, looks the other way for fouls, and is overly generous to the defense. I truly think that come March, this is a huge negative. When these teams get into tournament play, they will be expecting to get away with stuff that has been allowed for 3 months. They will figure they can slide in late and draw a charge, not get called when they body a guy up on defense, and generally throw themselves around while the refs inhale their whistles. Suddenly tourney time comes and those are all fouls, you end up with 2-3 key players in foul trouble, and you're packing your bags.

I wish our league had refs that called games more like the ACC. I have a feeling it'd be far more valuable come March when games really matter.

Interesting dichotomy between marketing and post season performance. Big East markets and prides itself on tough, physical basketball but I agree in the post season that is generally a detriment. I thought the officiating was good and even handed in the Georgetown game but they were definitely calling that game different than anything we saw in the non-conference. So our non-conference schedule hurt us for Big East play and Big East play hurts everyone for the tournament.....awesome.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

So is MarqNY the 2nd incarnation of Tex or Ners?

Tex always showed some self-control, as we know Ners was incapable, so....

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

MU is not going to make the dance this year. Right now they are not a good team and their McDonald All American is not playing like one. It's gonna be another long season, as the Big Eadt has a lot of good teams that we just do not match up against right now.

Probably not, but I am not giving up 2 games into the season. Still a lot of ball to be played, and until they hit the 9 loss mark in the BE, I am not losing hope.   

[bilsu]

You do not bench a potential one & done, if you want to recruit more one & dones.

[Herman Cain]

You do not bench a potential one & done, if you want to recruit more one & dones.

I am not saying to nail him to the bench a la JJJ. Rather , pull him out for a series to show some discipline. Then put him back in . In the greater scheme of things that is not a big deal .

Al never coddled Bernard Toone.

[We R Final Four]

You do not bench a potential one & done, if you want to recruit more one & dones.

+1.  Right or wrong, this is the way it is.  HE did not come to MU not to sit on the bench.  It may be unfortunate, but what Wojo needs to get future players that are similar to HE's hype is to allow HE to do what he wants.

[hoyasincebirth]

Someone mentioned this elsewhere, but I think this is a HUGE problem for the Big East. Look at the difference in officiating between November/December and the start of conference play. Not just against the cupcakes, but all around. Physical play was discouraged. Charges were down as refs were calling more blocks, especially when players weren't well established. When Luke and Henry were swatted at in the post, fouls were called and they went to the line.

Suddenly, conference play starts and all that ends. Refs go back to allowing the guys to play. We get whistled for 6 charges in one game, maybe 2 of which would have been charges a week earlier. Big men are constantly harassing us down low with no fouls being called. This is not a Marquette problem, this is a Big East problem, and frankly, if this league has any designs on long-term success, it needs to be fixed.

This goes back to the Old Big East. We have always had that rough and tumble, physical league that allows teams to play, looks the other way for fouls, and is overly generous to the defense. I truly think that come March, this is a huge negative. When these teams get into tournament play, they will be expecting to get away with stuff that has been allowed for 3 months. They will figure they can slide in late and draw a charge, not get called when they body a guy up on defense, and generally throw themselves around while the refs inhale their whistles. Suddenly tourney time comes and those are all fouls, you end up with 2-3 key players in foul trouble, and you're packing your bags.

I wish our league had refs that called games more like the ACC. I have a feeling it'd be far more valuable come March when games really matter.

This is a huge misconception. A pitt fan crunched the numbers  and showed that BE teams fouled at the same rate in conference play as they did in the NCAA tournament. There was no increase in foul rate like you would expect if your assumption was true. There was not a difference in terms of people picking up more early fouls or any of that. This oh the BE is too physical in conference and it hurts us in the tournament sounds right but the numbers don't back it up.