Have To Tell It Like It is

[humanlung]

This thread and the premise that started it is breathtakingly stupid.

[Pakuni]

I can say unequivocally that Deonte, since day 1 at Marquette, is and has been a better basketball player than Derrick Wilson. That will never change, it is a fact, regardless of effort levels or the appearance of effort levels. Ergo, he deserves more minutes on the court, ESPECIALLY with this new roster makeup with 2 other capable PGs in Carlino and Duane. Then you add in the fact that we went to a zone defense with a focus on creating turnovers, and it really starts to make no sense at all. It also just so happens that he has more potential than Derrick Wilson as well, which only serves to add another layer of confusion. I am not advocating for PT based on potential. Deonte is a better player than Derrick Wilson TODAY and he always has been. That's why he should have been on the court more. He helps us more now AS WELL AS IN THE FUTURE.

Problem is, Deonte wasn't competing with Derrick for minutes any more than Luke Fischer will be competing for minutes with Derrick. If Deonte could handle the ball and guard the perimeter (and wasn't a complete black hole), you might have an argument here.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I guess the Ellenson Family Reunion also knows more than Buzz and Wojo.

Such a worthless comment.

[wadesworld]

Such a worthless comment.

Then explain to me how 2 division 1 college basketball coaches would come to the exact same conclusion, and you be so entirely sure that they couldn't be any more wrong.  Please.  I'm begging to know how it is that Wojo and Buzz both came to the same conclusion yet they are so wrong, but you aren't saying you know more than them.

[mu03eng]

I can say unequivocally that Deonte, since day 1 at Marquette, is and has been a better basketball player than Derrick Wilson. That will never change, it is a fact, regardless of effort levels or the appearance of effort levels. Ergo, he deserves more minutes on the court, ESPECIALLY with this new roster makeup with 2 other capable PGs in Carlino and Duane. Then you add in the fact that we went to a zone defense with a focus on creating turnovers, and it really starts to make no sense at all. It also just so happens that he has more potential than Derrick Wilson as well, which only serves to add another layer of confusion. I am not advocating for PT based on potential. Deonte is a better player than Derrick Wilson TODAY and he always has been. That's why he should have been on the court more. He helps us more now AS WELL AS IN THE FUTURE.

If Burton is quantifiably better than Derrick, why would Wojo play Burton the minutes he played and Derrick his minutes?  Why would Wojo want Burton to transfer if it is clear that Burton can produce at high levels for this team.

I'm asking seriously, not trying to be a jerk.

[wadesworld]

This thread and the premise that started it is breathtakingly stupid.

Yes.

[Silkk the Shaka]

No. No. No.

I'll clarify:

I'm sure both coaches (Buzz and Wojo) would have LOVED for Deonte to be awesome from day 1 and force them to bench (insert player) permanently.

Deonte has some holes in his game (like most players), so they had to limit his playing time.

Perfectly logical.

Fine if you feel that way. But then at least be consistent and limit the PT of a player like Derrick who also has extreme glaring holes in his game (and in my opinion larger glaring weaknesses) with no potential for improvement.

[Silkk the Shaka]

If Burton is quantifiably better than Derrick, why would Wojo play Burton the minutes he played and Derrick his minutes?  Why would Wojo want Burton to transfer if it is clear that Burton can produce at high levels for this team.

I'm asking seriously, not trying to be a jerk.

I don't have an answer. It makes no sense to me at all. None whatsoever.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Problem is, Deonte wasn't competing with Derrick for minutes any more than Luke Fischer will be competing for minutes with Derrick. If Deonte could handle the ball and guard the perimeter (and wasn't a complete black hole), you might have an argument here.

If you've been paying attention, Derrick has been playing the bottom of the 2/3 zone, exactly where Deonte would play on defense, and has largely shared the court with 2 other PGs in Duane and Carlino, rendering his services at the 1 redundant and unnecessary. For all intents and purposes he has been playing the 3.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Fine if you feel that way. But then at least be consistent and limit the PT of a player like Derrick who also has extreme glaring holes in his game (and in my opinion larger glaring weaknesses) with no potential for improvement.

Well, as I posted earlier, I suspect Deonte's current performance issues might be more mental than physical.

Most coaches will allow some leeway for players to improve on physical mistakes. However, if you repeatedly make mental mistakes, you'll find yourself on the bench.

I don't know exactly why Wojo made the choices he did (I HAVE NO INSIDER INFO), but this seems like a reasonable assumption based upon what I saw.

Deonte didn't look physically over-matched in games, but he looked like he didn't know exactly where he was supposed to be, or exactly what he was supposed to be doing, and then BAM, he'd be on the bench.

[reinko]

Deonte is a threat to score. 50% from 2, 40% from 3, 77% from the line. Derrick is at 46% from 2, 22% from 3, and 38% from the line. Deonte's steal % is best on the team at 4.8%, Derrick's is the lowest by far with Steve Taylor at 1.6%. So Derrick doesn't turn it over. DOOOOOOOOON'T CAAAAAAAAAARE. We have 2 other PGs on the team. Play them instead in a standard 2 guard set and give a guy like Deonte burn at the 3/4 base of the zone.

You care too much about 19 year olds that appear on your television set who dribble an orange ball, and put through a structure with a circular hoop attached to it that is 10 feet in the air.

[mu03eng]

I don't have an answer. It makes no sense to me at all. None whatsoever.

Fair answer, guess it'll just be a mystery to time

[Pakuni]

If you've been paying attention, Derrick has been playing the bottom of the 2/3 zone, exactly where Deonte would play on defense, and has largely shared the court with 2 other PGs in Duane and Carlino, rendering his services at the 1 redundant and unnecessary. For all intents and purposes he has been playing the 3.

No, Derrick hasn't been playing the three.
As this KenPom usage chart (courtesy of Paint Touches) shows, Derrick has played exclusively at the 1 and 2. And Deonte has played exclusively at the 4.
They were not competing for minutes

https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/542413641513844736/photo/1

[willie warrior]

Wadesworld is the most knowledgeable poster around. He knows everything about everything, just ask him and he'll tell you. I think he's one of the great minds of our time  

But wait...but wait...I thought TAMU and the Slurpy one were..and MU82...Can it be that we have several or maybe a lot of the greatest basketball minds (as well as on any other topic) right here on Scoop? I believe so.

[willie warrior]

Go F YOURSELF

How we are digressing here. Leave this for Bo Ryan, ND fans, Badger fans, Ky. fans, etc.

[jsglow]

No, Derrick hasn't been playing the three.
As this KenPom usage chart (courtesy of Paint Touches) shows, Derrick has played exclusively at the 1 and 2. And Deonte has played exclusively at the 4.
They were not competing for minutes

https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/542413641513844736/photo/1

Super interesting but perhaps a tad misleading.  It can be argued that Luke's return will result (or could have) in a shift.  Perhaps a little less 3 guard with all moving down a position?  Not that I personally think that would have made us a better team this year.

[willie warrior]

"Having," as in the biblical sense?

We all need some biblical sense right now!

[willie warrior]

Don't make decisions based on where you are in life, make them on where you're going. Your biography is not your destiny, your decisions are

With philosophy like that, you are..."Buzz Williams"

[Silkk the Shaka]

No, Derrick hasn't been playing the three.
As this KenPom usage chart (courtesy of Paint Touches) shows, Derrick has played exclusively at the 1 and 2. And Deonte has played exclusively at the 4.
They were not competing for minutes

https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/542413641513844736/photo/1

Trust me, I have a KenPom subscription too. We have a 3 PG offense right now. It was unnecessary. Carlino and Duane could share those duties, then you slide other players up to their natural positions. And Derrick is most certainly playing the 3/4 in the base of the 2/3 zone on defense, exactly where Deonte would play.

[brewcity77]

Super interesting but perhaps a tad misleading.  It can be argued that Luke's return will result (or could have) in a shift.  Perhaps a little less 3 guard with all moving down a position?  Not that I personally think that would have made us a better team this year.

And for me, herein lies a huge part of the problem. Luke's return would have likely led to everyone shifting down a bit and in Burton's case, would have given him a chance not only at more minutes but to be a more efficient player. Deonte needs someone like Luke in the middle of the paint to really be effective. That's what makes his transfer so disappointing. Just when he was finally going to have a chance to show his game, he decides to leave.

Quite simply, Deonte has disappointed this season. I can understand why. He went through a lot. But as far as actual, on the court production, he hasn't met expectations. He hasn't earned more minutes than he's been given. I have no problem with our coach giving players the minutes they earn. I'm not sure why people are having such a difficult time grasping this.

If Deonte was averaging 10 ppg in 16 mpg, there would be a case. If Deonte was incredibly efficient on offense and at least sticking to assignments on defense, there would be a case. If Deonte was doing all the other things outside of scoring (assists, rebounds, boxing out), there would be a case. But he wasn't lighting up the scoreboard and he wasn't doing the other things. So where is the case?

[Pakuni]

Trust me, I have a KenPom subscription too. We have a 3 PG offense right now. It was unnecessary. Carlino and Duane could share those duties, then you slide other players up to their natural positions. And Derrick is most certainly playing the 3/4 in the base of the 2/3 zone on defense, exactly where Deonte would play.

So, you have a KenPom subscription that specifically tells (shows) you that neither Derrick or Deonte have been playing the three, then come here to make the case that they're both playing the three?

[willie warrior]

That's why I have you, me and Willie riding off into the sunset together

You are probably right, it's likely a recency error on my part.

I'm OK with that, as long as it does not turn into a Brokeback Mountain thing.

By the way, reading all these posts in this thread is like watching the Kardashians or Real Housewives, only the posts here are cattier. Please--I do not watch by choice, it is my wife trying to expand her mind. I try to read when that crap is on, but the caterwailing interrupts.

[willie warrior]

Ners, as your sponsor, I am suggesting that you may want to take a few steps back a little.  I like that you were focusing on the communication aspect of the issue earlier, but if you go down this road, you might end up where you said you didn't want to go just a day ago.

Think about the children.

Yes, we must always think of the children--especially those of us on this thread.

[jsglow]

And for me, herein lies a huge part of the problem. Luke's return would have likely led to everyone shifting down a bit and in Burton's case, would have given him a chance not only at more minutes but to be a more efficient player. Deonte needs someone like Luke in the middle of the paint to really be effective. That's what makes his transfer so disappointing. Just when he was finally going to have a chance to show his game, he decides to leave.

Quite simply, Deonte has disappointed this season. I can understand why. He went through a lot. But as far as actual, on the court production, he hasn't met expectations. He hasn't earned more minutes than he's been given. I have no problem with our coach giving players the minutes they earn. I'm not sure why people are having such a difficult time grasping this.

If Deonte was averaging 10 ppg in 16 mpg, there would be a case. If Deonte was incredibly efficient on offense and at least sticking to assignments on defense, there would be a case. If Deonte was doing all the other things outside of scoring (assists, rebounds, boxing out), there would be a case. But he wasn't lighting up the scoreboard and he wasn't doing the other things. So where is the case?

Again, I'll go back to the point where Deonte has sacrificed a lot (eligibility wise) with this decision when it might have been the case that he could have blossomed following Luke's eligibility.  We may never know his exact reasoning and I'm not his dad.  I hope he made the right choice.  Because I know he's a great kid.  

[Silkk the Shaka]

So, you have a KenPom subscription that specifically tells (shows) you that neither Derrick or Deonte have been playing the three, then come here to make the case that they're both playing the three?

You're being purposely obtuse. Read the fine print directly below those lineups. "Position designation is estimated by an algorithm and may not reflect reality." I watch the games, KenPom's positions algorithm does not.