Dwyane Wade Done?

[WarriorFan]

btw, the last thing I'd ever want to see him do is go the path of Sidney Moncrief, who never did re-invent and ended up as a slasher who couldn't slash any more.  I'm a huge Moncrief fan, but watching his last two years was painful. 

Also bad knees.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And you've patted yourself on the back for it multiple times since.

I have no doubt if the Heat had won, you and others would be more than willing to say I was wrong.  Doing the heavy lifting for you.  I don't even watch the NBA and can pick this crap with my eyes closed.

No Adjusted Score Fenwick needed.   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

He looks really washed up to me. I'm sure he could play 5 more seasons and put up some stats, but he is a shell of his former shelf. I think you get a much better gauge of where a player is at in the playoffs, than you do in the regular season. There are so many crappy teams, especially in the Eastern Conference that his regular season stats don't really tell the whole story. I think Wade is too prideful to try and hang on when his skills erode, at least I hope so. I think he plays next year and then 1 more and he's done. Wade will go down as a relentless warrior and one of the great players of my generation.

#1 He is a shell of his former self, but that doesn't mean he can't be effective.

#2 I agree that stats don't tell the whole story, but look at his playoff stats as well.

Really not bad, and pretty efficient.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html

Look, the guy isn't a first team NBA player anymore, but looking at it objectively, he's still a really efficient guard on a really good team. I honestly don't know if Dwyane & the Heat are bad in the finals, or if the Spurs are actually just that good.

I can't recall a team executing in the 1/2 court as well as the Spurs are right now. It's insane how good they are, and how their spacing and movement are nearly perfect. I have never seen anything like it.

[forgetful]

Spurs are much deeper.

Depth isn't the issue, it is the style of play and coaching.  The Spurs make you work on D, the Heat do not.  Defense is where your legs get tired.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I blame the deterioration of Dwayne Wade's knees (and overall game) to that of one person: Erik Spoelstra.  He installed, and never adjusted - even in this series, where the Spurs had fresher legs - his full-court trapping style of defense.  He's been running the same system now for 4 years, and it worked extremely well when you have 3 superstars on the court at a given time.  But it no longer works when your superstars (not LeBron) lack the same explosion and athleticism they once had.

You guys are definitely on point, though.  He needs to adjust his game.  He still plays like he has elite quickness (which he does not).  He should work on being an outside shooter, preserving his body by not attacking the basket so much.  We shall see...

[NavinRJohnson]

He was done before this year even started.

[NavinRJohnson]

Nah, that mofo @ IU will snatch his ass up first, hey?

I4 can have him. Great player, but a bit of a jack hole.

[Galway Eagle]

I4 can have him. Great player, but a bit of a jack hole.

I agree.  Maybe not for the same reason as I think Wade would fall into the Isaiah Thomas trap as a coach who basketball came too naturally to him and thus couldn't really help develop players. 

[Wojo'sMojo]

I blame the deterioration of Dwayne Wade's knees (and overall game) to that of one person: Erik Spoelstra.  He installed, and never adjusted - even in this series, where the Spurs had fresher legs - his full-court trapping style of defense.  He's been running the same system now for 4 years, and it worked extremely well when you have 3 superstars on the court at a given time.  But it no longer works when your superstars (not LeBron) lack the same explosion and athleticism they once had.

You guys are definitely on point, though.  He needs to adjust his game.  He still plays like he has elite quickness (which he does not).  He should work on being an outside shooter, preserving his body by not attacking the basket so much.  We shall see...

I think that's where the problem is. He isn't a great shooter...career 29% from 3. He was always an attack that basket type player who could hit the 3 occasionally and keep defenses honest. With his athleticism deteriorating, teams are not going to have to worry about him blowing by them. The reason why Ray Allen continues to be effective is he's a lethal shooter from deep.

[Stretchdeltsig]

The NBA has too many games period.  Wade looked like his legs were wooden last year too.  We have noticed the worn out legs of many other NBA players in the playoffs over the years.  Their legs are shot from playing too many games.  Wish the NBA would shorten the season by playing fewer games.  It would be better for the players and fans if the games were more meaningful like the NFL.

[Lennys Tap]

I have no doubt if the Heat had won, you and others would be more than willing to say I was wrong.  Doing the heavy lifting for you.  I don't even watch the NBA and can pick this crap with my eyes closed.

You definitely did not get enough attention as a child.

[GGGG]

The NBA has too many games period.  Wade looked like his legs were wooden last year too.  We have noticed the worn out legs of many other NBA players in the playoffs over the years.  Their legs are shot from playing too many games.  Wish the NBA would shorten the season by playing fewer games.  It would be better for the players and fans if the games were more meaningful like the NFL.

The NBA, NHL and MLB have too many games.  It dates back from when gate receipts were more important than they are now.  If you were starting all three from scratch right now, there is no way you would have that many games. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I agree.  Maybe not for the same reason as I think Wade would fall into the Isaiah Thomas trap as a coach who basketball came too naturally to him and thus couldn't really help develop players. 

I think if you look at Wade's progression, it didn't come easily or naturally to him at all.  The guy busted his butt to get very good at his craft.

All that said, some really good players sometimes have a tough time coaching because their pupils don't have the drive they had and\or the ability, so it makes it difficult on them.  Do not think it really matters, D Wade is likely not going to get into coaching.  Nor is he "done" as people suggest here.  Everyone loses a step, he can still function if he chooses to play a few more years.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The NBA, NHL and MLB have too many games.  It dates back from when gate receipts were more important than they are now.  If you were starting all three from scratch right now, there is no way you would have that many games. 

Maybe, but the NFL is about to add more games.  Give it another year or two, that will likely be approved.  I agree ticket revenue was more of a driver back in the day, while television money is now.  The way some here proclaim TV will be dead next month, year, 5 years from now, they may be relying on ticket revenue again to a higher degree.

I don't see any of the seasons being shortened because in large part the television fees are generated by content (i.e. # of games).  Fewer games, less content, less money.

[Galway Eagle]

I think if you look at Wade's progression, it didn't come easily or naturally to him at all.  The guy busted his butt to get very good at his craft.

All that said, some really good players sometimes have a tough time coaching because their pupils don't have the drive they had and\or the ability, so it makes it difficult on them.  Do not think it really matters, D Wade is likely not going to get into coaching.  Nor is he "done" as people suggest here.  Everyone loses a step, he can still function if he chooses to play a few more years.

I mean I'm not going to argue that he busted his butt but he certainly had a natural touch to him that I feel would be tough to explain to someone without it.  Agree he isn't done.  A shell of who he was yes but definitely not done.  Hope he can pick the right time to leave as opposed to say Tracy mcgrady or Allen iverson

[ChicosBailBonds]

I mean I'm not going to argue that he busted his butt but he certainly had a natural touch to him that I feel would be tough to explain to someone without it.  Agree he isn't done.  A shell of who he was yes but definitely not done.  Hope he can pick the right time to leave as opposed to say Tracy mcgrady or Allen iverson

That's always tough for an athlete, when to bow out.  Some of these guys need the money because they aren't very disciplined with it. 

[Galway Eagle]

That's always tough for an athlete, when to bow out.  Some of these guys need the money because they aren't very disciplined with it. 

True.  I think there was a 30 for 30 on that I saw a couple years back.  It talked about how suddenly everybody who was around in family, grade school, college, etc want a cut and then you often add in child support and occasional league fines, government taxes, injuries that may make you worth less.  And suddenly that multi million dollar contract is looking pretty pedestrian

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think that's where the problem is. He isn't a great shooter...career 29% from 3. He was always an attack that basket type player who could hit the 3 occasionally and keep defenses honest. With his athleticism deteriorating, teams are not going to have to worry about him blowing by them. The reason why Ray Allen continues to be effective is he's a lethal shooter from deep.

That's only telling 1/2 the story.

The guy shot 55% from the field this year. That's fantastic for a guard.

He's never going to be steph curry, and Dwyane had a terrible game last night.

HOWEVER, I don't think you are seeing the big picture. A player scoring almost 20pts per night on 14 shots is a big asset.

Dwyane isn't perfect (he never was), but you're making it sound like he's not a good player, and that's simply not true. He's a good player on a good team.

[brandx]

Depth isn't the issue, it is the style of play and coaching.  The Spurs make you work on D, the Heat do not.  Defense is where your legs get tired.

Tim Duncan is THE issue. 17 years in the league - 17 years in the Playoffs.

Miami has 6 lottery picks surrounding James. I believe the Spurs have ZERO lottery picks surrounding Duncan.

A win this year puts Duncan in the conversation as a top 4 all-time NBA player.
Behind only Jordan, Jabbar, and Russell.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Tim Duncan is THE issue. 17 years in the league - 17 years in the Playoffs.

Miami has 6 lottery picks surrounding James. I believe the Spurs have ZERO lottery picks surrounding Duncan.

A win this year puts Duncan in the conversation as a top 4 all-time NBA player.
Behind only Jordan, Jabbar, and Russell.

Shane Battier...come on.  Nice player, but let's not go overboard.  Ray Allen, a guard playing in his 17th year. Greg Oden....I hope he wasn't part of your list of 6 lottery picks and actually trying to argue that he is anything but a shadow of the player he was in college.  Michael Beasley...another overrated player.

Why place so much value on where they were drafted?  All it takes is one dumb GM to put too much value on a guy and draft him too high.  Or, it can be indicative of how poor of a draft it is that particular year.

At the end of the day, how good are the actual players you are surrounded by is the key.  Where they were drafted, means nothing.  They have yet to play a single NBA play when they are drafted.  Would you rather have Wesley Matthews (not drafted) or Mario Chalmers (lottery pick) on your team?

[swoopem]

Mario Chalmers was picked in the 2nd round 34th overall. I'm going off memory but that's the same pick as Diener (maybe Novak)

[GGGG]

Tim Duncan is THE issue. 17 years in the league - 17 years in the Playoffs.

Miami has 6 lottery picks surrounding James. I believe the Spurs have ZERO lottery picks surrounding Duncan.

All that means is that Buford is a fantastic general manager.

[Texas Western]

That's only telling 1/2 the story.

The guy shot 55% from the field this year. That's fantastic for a guard.

He's never going to be steph curry, and Dwyane had a terrible game last night.

HOWEVER, I don't think you are seeing the big picture. A player scoring almost 20pts per night on 14 shots is a big asset.

Dwyane isn't perfect (he never was), but you're making it sound like he's not a good player, and that's simply not true. He's a good player on a good team.

I agree with this analysis. I love how this board jumps on a guy for a bad game. He is still a very valuable player for the Heat . If you  watch him carefully when he is running the offense good things happen almost every trip down the floor and he has incredibly quick hands on defense. NBA playoffs frequently have blow out games so nothing to get worked up about.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Mario Chalmers was picked in the 2nd round 34th overall. I'm going off memory but that's the same pick as Diener (maybe Novak)

Thanks.

I'll edit. 

[brandx]

All that means is that Buford is a fantastic general manager.

+1

And he has embraced foreign players more than any other team. Only two of the top nine players on the team are US born.