Buzz has got to learn....

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

I don't hate Derrick Wilson.  At this point he's our best option at PG, but that doesn't mean I have to make believe he's anything other than an average defender and an offensively absent player.  We won't win with him being our best option either for the remainder of this season or next year if someone else cannot take away the majority of his minutes.

Didn't mean to label you as a D Wil hater. I was trying to distiguish you from the "slurpers." Things that I and other posters add to the convo are often written off as blind love for Derrick and Buzz.

[ecompt]

I told my wife on Saturday during the Nova game that Buzz looked severely stressed out....just could see it in his face.  She laughed a bit and said he looks like you at times.  Not good for the soul or the heart.  This has been a tough year on him I am sure because he is wearing it for many to see.

This may be the first year he feels he is underpaid. I just wonder when the "young coach" tag goes away. In three years? Five?

[NersEllenson]

C-.   IMO, the single biggest weakness of this team is that the seniors, with the exception of Jake, didn't lead.  IMO, Buzz's biggest failure of the year is the same one that many here made, and that is he expected the seniors to take on the mantle of leadership like other had before.   Granted, Vander could have been that guy, but he was gone.   Buzz said in October that the seniors weren't stepping up.   I'm not sure Buzz, for all of the preparation and study he has done on so many details, was ready for an experienced team without leaders.    He didn't make the adjustments he needed to.   He couldn't find the buttons to push with this senior class to get them to take ownership.    I think he was a little blindsided.    On the other hand, he knows that he is going to have to do an insane about of teaching next year.   He will be ready. 

Tower - Think you are way too caught up in leadership...leadership, can't put the ball in the basket...can't change opposing coaches from defending the team a certain way.  You can have great leaders, but if in basketball, the floor general is totally overmatched for his role - it just doesn't matter if Davante or Jamil are being good "leaders."  You are still going to lose games.

Buzz had the choice all year to push a button at the PG position, and it is the only button he would not push..and it was painfully obvious to virtually everyone....that if nothing changed, nothing was going to change about our results.  Buzz chose to play 4 on 5 on the offensive end, thinking the defensive upside would win games...the strategy failed.  Why he's continued to choose to trot out the starting lineup he has in both halves, is beyond explanation - other than sheer stubbornness....or perhaps it isn't that...and it is just Buzz trying to make everyone happy on the team...and give them some minutes/PT...but you just can't play that game at this point/level.

[Atticus]

If he wants to leave, so be it. Marquette is the biggest spending program in the country. The program is bigger than the coach.

Not a lot of bang for those bucks, eh? Regardless, I dont believe those numbers anyway.

[willie warrior]

He gets a D- for many reasons: The record, given the pre-season expectations and talent returning; for his supreme stubbornness at continuing to play a PG 30 plus minutes a game that cannot shoot, score or make FT's; for failing to develop frosh during a down year(other than Burton); for making ridiculous and outrageous statements about Derrick and dissing people in public; for a defense that was atrocious at defending the 3; for failure to have a single signature win--hell, even BC has one; etc.

[willie warrior]

This may be the first year he feels he is underpaid. I just wonder when the "young coach" tag goes away. In three years? Five?

Underpaid--at 2.5 million per year? He was overpaid this year.

[mu03eng]

 Why he's continued to choose to trot out the starting lineup he has in both halves, is beyond explanation - other than sheer stubbornness

If they aren't playing starter minutes does it really matter who starts?  If Juan gets 5 minutes scattered through out 40 minutes but isn't "starting" does it make a difference?

[mu03eng]

for his supreme stubbornness at continuing to play a PG 30 plus minutes a game that cannot shoot, score or make FT's;

What's your theory behind why Buzz stuck with Derrick when it's obvious to everyone that we should go another direction?  I'm looking for a serious, logical answer.  I have my conclusion but I want to know why you think a highly paid division 1 record with a proven track record of winning makes this very obviously wrong choice.

[We R Final Four]

 Buzz is under pressure from us as fans, the media, etc.  He is hearing it from all angles.  He isn't oblivious to the comments, etc.  Heck, he even said he hears it from his family.  This creates pressure, like it or not.  Buzz is under a lot more stress than previously.  

The MU fans, media, etc. are puppy dogs compared to other potential programs where a coach like ours could go. From what I know watching Buzz on and off the court.....he certainly can handle this 'pressure cooker'.

[mattyv1908]

Tower - Think you are way too caught up in leadership...leadership, can't put the ball in the basket...can't change opposing coaches from defending the team a certain way.  You can have great leaders, but if in basketball, the floor general is totally overmatched for his role - it just doesn't matter if Davante or Jamil are being good "leaders."  You are still going to lose games.

Buzz had the choice all year to push a button at the PG position, and it is the only button he would not push..and it was painfully obvious to virtually everyone....that if nothing changed, nothing was going to change about our results.  Buzz chose to play 4 on 5 on the offensive end, thinking the defensive upside would win games...the strategy failed.  Why he's continued to choose to trot out the starting lineup he has in both halves, is beyond explanation - other than sheer stubbornness....or perhaps it isn't that...and it is just Buzz trying to make everyone happy on the team...and give them some minutes/PT...but you just can't play that game at this point/level.

Actually, Ners might be correct at this point.  If you look at Sports-Reference.com for conference play Derrick Wilson's ORtg is 97.7 to Dawson's 97.0 but they incorrectly have Derrick's stats for the loss @ Nova credited to Duane Wilson.  His ORtg in that game was 42.6 and I'd assume that horrendous showing would put him under the 97 mark for the season.  He still is the better defender but it's not a huge discrepancy.

For the season he still has the edge in numbers but if you limit the data to strictly conference play our team would be averaging more points/game if Dawson was receiving the minutes.

His last two games have been two of the ugliest games I've ever seen a PG play in my life.

[willie warrior]

What's your theory behind why Buzz stuck with Derrick when it's obvious to everyone that we should go another direction?  I'm looking for a serious, logical answer.  I have my conclusion but I want to know why you think a highly paid division 1 record with a proven track record of winning makes this very obviously wrong choice.

Stubborness on Buzz's part. He shot his mouth off last year by saying Derrick should start over Cadougan, which IMO is more of the same of the guy making ridiculous statements. Cadougan graduated, so Buzz had to stand by his statement. He had the perfect out for himself when he decided to RedShirt Du. Wilson, because then there was nobody else in the cupboard to compare Derrick's performance to. Unless you want to compare to Dawson. Buzz is not the downhome lonesome cowboy that he pretends to be

Derrick is a better than average defender, but is not elite like Buzz says. Derrick is not a gamechanger like Buzz says, but if he gave significant minutes to somebody else, in Buzz's mind he would look more foolish. There are plenty of people that say that Buzz never meant what he said. It was "motivational technique". I do not believe that for a minute. He stuck his foot in his mouth, and then he had no way to extricate it other than to continue to make Derrick the man, IMO opinion due to stubbornness. And he has the perfect alibi--no other option, which many have bought into. Now the real test will be to see what he does with that position next year. Does anybody really believe that he will see the light? Don't think so, unless Travis Diener Jr. shows up next year.
Buzz controls the process.

Have there been other highly paid coaches that may have occasionally lost their way because of a stubborn streak. Sure, try Bobby Knight for one.

[tower912]

Tower - Think you are way too caught up in leadership...leadership, can't put the ball in the basket...can't change opposing coaches from defending the team a certain way.  You can have great leaders, but if in basketball, the floor general is totally overmatched for his role - it just doesn't matter if Davante or Jamil are being good "leaders."  You are still going to lose games.

Buzz had the choice all year to push a button at the PG position, and it is the only button he would not push..and it was painfully obvious to virtually everyone....that if nothing changed, nothing was going to change about our results.  Buzz chose to play 4 on 5 on the offensive end, thinking the defensive upside would win games...the strategy failed.  Why he's continued to choose to trot out the starting lineup he has in both halves, is beyond explanation - other than sheer stubbornness....or perhaps it isn't that...and it is just Buzz trying to make everyone happy on the team...and give them some minutes/PT...but you just can't play that game at this point/level.

Perhaps you should look up the word 'irony' before you accuse someone else of being too caught up in something.   

[mattyv1908]

tower I quoted your post incorrectly, my response was meant for TAMU.  Sorry

[mu03eng]

Stubborness on Buzz's part. He shot his mouth off last year by saying Derrick should start over Cadougan, which IMO is more of the same of the guy making ridiculous statements. Cadougan graduated, so Buzz had to stand by his statement. He had the perfect out for himself when he decided to RedShirt Du. Wilson, because then there was nobody else in the cupboard to compare Derrick's performance to. Unless you want to compare to Dawson. Buzz is not the downhome lonesome cowboy that he pretends to be

Derrick is a better than average defender, but is not elite like Buzz says. Derrick is not a gamechanger like Buzz says, but if he gave significant minutes to somebody else, in Buzz's mind he would look more foolish. There are plenty of people that say that Buzz never meant what he said. It was "motivational technique". I do not believe that for a minute. He stuck his foot in his mouth, and then he had no way to extricate it other than to continue to make Derrick the man, IMO opinion due to stubbornness. And he has the perfect alibi--no other option, which many have bought into. Now the real test will be to see what he does with that position next year. Does anybody really believe that he will see the light? Don't think so, unless Travis Diener Jr. shows up next year.
Buzz controls the process.

Have there been other highly paid coaches that may have occasionally lost their way because of a stubborn streak. Sure, try Bobby Knight for one.

Let me boil this down to what I think you are saying.  Buzz made a mistake in believing the Derrick Wilson was the point guard for this season.  When proven that Derrick wasn't, Buzz decided to ignore that evidence.  What's more he has actively lied to media and the fanbase in explaining his decisions.  He also chose to lose games rather than "admit" an mistake.

Is there anything in accurate in this statement?  If not, if you truly believes this, are you not calling for his firing?  If I believed this was even remotely true I would call for his immediate dismissal. 

[Lennys Tap]

Have there been other highly paid coaches that may have occasionally lost their way because of a stubborn streak. Sure, try Bobby Knight for one.

Bobby Knight was stubborn, no doubt about that. He never would have let a bunch of know nothings on a message board tell him who to play and who to sit. Al was stubborn, too. Started Bill Neary (a player much worse than Derrick) throughout the 76-77 season while Bernard Toone (a player light years better than John Dawson) languished on the bench.

No doubt Buzz is stubborn too. You don't have the enormous success he's had at such an early age without a very strong belief in what you perceive to be the right way to run a program. He'll continue to award playing time based on those principles and not by polling Scoop members. Some will be okay with that. Some will be okay with that only when we meet or exceed their expectations. Some will be okay with that only if we win every game and look good doing it.

But one thing Buzz isn't is stupid. He knows that the guys who slap him on the back the hardest in good times will often be the ones who bitch the loudest during challenging ones. They bought a pennant or a hat, perhaps a ticket (season tickets even). Maybe they even spent 4 (or more) years on the campus spending Daddy and Mommy's money. They're entitled. Buzz and the players "owe" them. Bullcrap.

[willie warrior]

Bobby Knight was stubborn, no doubt about that. He never would have let a bunch of know nothings on a message board tell him who to play and who to sit. Al was stubborn, too. Started Bill Neary (a player much worse than Derrick) throughout the 76-77 season while Bernard Toone (a player light years better than John Dawson) languished on the bench.

No doubt Buzz is stubborn too. You don't have the enormous success he's had at such an early age without a very strong belief in what you perceive to be the right way to run a program. He'll continue to award playing time based on those principles and not by polling Scoop members. Some will be okay with that. Some will be okay with that only when we meet or exceed their expectations. Some will be okay with that only if we win every game and look good doing it.

But one thing Buzz isn't is stupid. He knows that the guys who slap him on the back the hardest in good times will often be the ones who bitch the loudest during challenging ones. They bought a pennant or a hat, perhaps a ticket (season tickets even). Maybe they even spent 4 (or more) years on the campus spending Daddy and Mommy's money. They're entitled. Buzz and the players "owe" them. Bullcrap.

Now there is a comparison--Derrick better than Neary. I will give you that Toone was very talented, but he did play quite a bit. Al's reasoning, as I recall was that Toone was not very coachable. But I do not quite get the leap to comparing Neary to Derrick as a defense for Buzz.

[NersEllenson]

If they aren't playing starter minutes does it really matter who starts?  If Juan gets 5 minutes scattered through out 40 minutes but isn't "starting" does it make a difference?

As much as Buzz has gone on record stating how valuable every possession is...and how he's been so afraid to let Dawson run 20+ minutes per game when getting so little from Derrick - I'd say yes, it does make a difference if you scatter 5 minutes per half to a player that is not even in the same zip code in ability as Deonte....

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I have had the opportunity to speak to Buzz on multiple occasions. He is definitely stubborn. However, he is one of the most genuine and win hungry men I have ever meant. Buzz desires character and winning above all else. I can't believe for a second that Buzz would lose a single game just to prove a point.

[NersEllenson]

Perhaps you should look up the word 'irony' before you accuse someone else of being too caught up in something.   

I appreciate the humor attempt Tower...but...if you want to deny that PG play isn't what is far and away the biggest achilles heel on this team...and attribute the season to lack of leadership - I guess go ahead...but like I said, leadership doesn't put the ball in the basket and can't stop the opposition from packing the paint and making life hell for Davante and Jamil.

[Mutaman]

This is coming from someone in the know.  What grade would you give Buzz this year?  Be honest.

I pretty bored with hearing "from someone in the know".

[tower912]

I appreciate the humor attempt Tower...but...if you want to deny that PG play isn't what is far and away the biggest achilles heel on this team...and attribute the season to lack of leadership - I guess go ahead...but like I said, leadership doesn't put the ball in the basket and can't stop the opposition from packing the paint and making life hell for Davante and Jamil.

If there was a Vander Blue/DJO/Jae/JFB/Lazar style leader on this team, we would be celebrating Derrick as a defensive minded, caretaker PG.    I've watched the same games you have.  

[NersEllenson]

If there was a Vander Blue/DJO/Jae/JFB/Lazar style leader on this team, we would be celebrating Derrick as a defensive minded, caretaker PG.    I've watched the same games you have.  

Wow!  Agree to disagree. Did Todd Mayo not look like Vander or DJO last night?  Think if we had Cadougan's standard 8-10 points against Providence last night we would have won?

[NersEllenson]

Bobby Knight was stubborn, no doubt about that. He never would have let a bunch of know nothings on a message board tell him who to play and who to sit. Al was stubborn, too. Started Bill Neary (a player much worse than Derrick) throughout the 76-77 season while Bernard Toone (a player light years better than John Dawson) languished on the bench.

No doubt Buzz is stubborn too. You don't have the enormous success he's had at such an early age without a very strong belief in what you perceive to be the right way to run a program. He'll continue to award playing time based on those principles and not by polling Scoop members. Some will be okay with that. Some will be okay with that only when we meet or exceed their expectations. Some will be okay with that only if we win every game and look good doing it.

But one thing Buzz isn't is stupid. He knows that the guys who slap him on the back the hardest in good times will often be the ones who bitch the loudest during challenging ones. They bought a pennant or a hat, perhaps a ticket (season tickets even). Maybe they even spent 4 (or more) years on the campus spending Daddy and Mommy's money. They're entitled. Buzz and the players "owe" them. Bullcrap.

As I recall...1976-1977 turned out pretty well, correct?  Now, if we go on an improbable run, make the NCAA and with the National Championship....I will go along with your point.   

[MU82]

The MU fans, media, etc. are puppy dogs compared to other potential programs where a coach like ours could go. From what I know watching Buzz on and off the court.....he certainly can handle this 'pressure cooker'.

You beat me to this.

Buzz has it very, very easy and I assume he is smart and savvy enough to know it. He gets only praise nationally, and locally there is no just about no media paying attention to his program.

So what ... he is going to leave because a couple hundred knuckleheads on fan boards occasionally criticize him? Is there anyplace he could go that would be considered at least a lateral move and where he would face even less scrutiny? (SMU probably would have qualified, actually!)

If Buzz goes anywhere, it won't be because of the half-dozen Scoopers who think he should be fired.

[tower912]

Great point.   And to be more specific, in the entire college basketball junkie world, the ONLY people who would even suggest Buzz should be fired are a few Badger board denizens and some knuckleheads on this board.  And there are times I suspect there is overlap among those two subsets.