Not that this would have helped the Warriors mascot

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

PC is in the eye of the beholder.

You are absolutely right. PC is in the eye of the beholder. But the only beholder that matters is the one who is being stereotyped against. Someone of native american heritage has the right to look at Willie Wampum and say that is racist or not racist. You, as a non-native american (I assume) has no right to say whether or not Willie was PC or racist. A racist will very rarely consider themselves racist. Most are ignorant of how their words/actions are perceived by people of different populations.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What about the rights of the vast majority?

The rights of the vast majority don't need the same level of protection. The status quo already favors them

[willie warrior]

Reading.  Is.  Fundamental.

I never said the guy wearing the headress was racist.  I said it reinforces the MU decision-makers' beliefs that we cannot escape the native imagery.  I personally don't have a problem with it, but it doesn't send the type of message that I think they are trying to send.

I said that Willie Wampum was racist.  And it was.  Pretty much everyone associated with the University back when they ditched him in the early 70s believed that to be the case.  That's why they ditched it.

Just for the record; who are your sources that "pretty much everyone associated...believed that to be the case. You were there in the 70's and participated in that I guess. You made the reference to white guy in fake headdress. And is that why the name Warrior was discontinued? Because that was racist. That is what I was referring to. But go ahead and continue with your thought police pomposity.

[willie warrior]

Dude, why are you so angry all of the time?

All you do on this forum is bitch and complain about EVERYTHING.

Maybe it's time to find a hobby you actually like.

I have found a hobby. Objecting to images that are offensive. That seems to be the rage today. And one you subscribe to.

Incidentally, using the tag name Guns and Ammo is not PC and is objectionable. It depicts violence and killing which are unacceptable to almost all.

[GGGG]

willie, you are simply hopeless

[Lennys Tap]

Just for the record; who are your sources that "pretty much everyone associated...believed that to be the case. You were there in the 70's and participated in that I guess. You made the reference to white guy in fake headdress. And is that why the name Warrior was discontinued? Because that was racist. That is what I was referring to. But go ahead and continue with your thought police pomposity.

You're right, Willie, regarding how people felt back in the day. I graduated in 1970, the year that picture of Willie Wampum was taken. To us at the time, racism was what was going on overtly in Selma and Birmingham and in the shadows in Chicago and Milwaukee. Willie Wampum was a silly caricature who didn't bother anyone I knew. You couldn't, can't and shouldn't compare the two. That said, he was a thoughtless and demeaning caricature of real people, so when the issue came to the fore I had no difficulty kissing him good bye. I always felt that losing "Warriors" was an exercise in PC but that Willie had to go. What's your take?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is the term Redneck racist? Been hearing that a lot the last two days.....apparently that term is ok.  It's all so confusing. 

[Lennys Tap]

Is the term Redneck racist? Been hearing that a lot the last two days.....apparently that term is ok.  It's all so confusing. 

I haven't looked up the definition but my guess is that like Redskin it's an offensive term. So I'd at the very least be against using it as a nickname for a professional or college team. You'd be okay with it, I guess.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I haven't looked up the definition but my guess is that like Redskin it's an offensive term. So I'd at the very least be against using it as a nickname for a professional or college team. You'd be okay with it, I guess.

That's why it all so confusing.     But the irony in it all is hearing people the last two days losing their minds about how bigoted some people are and then calling those people rednecks.  Sometimes you just can't script it any better. 

Merry Christmas America

[Lennys Tap]

That's why it all so confusing.     But the irony in it all is hearing people the last two days losing their minds about how bigoted some people are and then calling those people rednecks.  Sometimes you just can't script it any better. 

Merry Christmas America

I get what you're saying, and you're right. There is absolutely an element on the left who attack what they see as bigotry with bigotry of their own. It's absurd. And so is that element on the right who think that objecting to the use of a by definition derogatory term for a race of people is nothing more than PC nonsense. Lots of crazies on both sides, all right.

[4everwarriors]

That's why it all so confusing.     But the irony in it all is hearing people the last two days losing their minds about how bigoted some people are and then calling those people rednecks.  Sometimes you just can't script it any better. 

Merry Christmas America

Can't say that. Not all of America is Christian, a'ina?

[4everwarriors]

Ya know, back in the day, ya couldn't tell someone they were ugly. Now, ya can't tell anyone they're good lookin' either.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ya know, back in the day, ya couldn't tell someone they were ugly. Now, ya can't tell anyone they're good lookin' either.

Depends who is doing the sayin....some folks get a free pass to say whatever the hell they want.  Others, can't think something without being called out, or if they do say something it will be twisted and examined and ultimately determined to have meant something that was never said or even remotely implied.  The filters people have is most interesting. 

[4everwarriors]

Truer words were never spoken.

[Lennys Tap]

Ya know, back in the day, ya couldn't tell someone they were ugly. Now, ya can't tell anyone they're good lookin' either.

True that.

[4everwarriors]

We're startin' to sound like a bunch of old farts pinin' for the good ol' days, hey?

[Lennys Tap]

We're startin' to sound like a bunch of old farts pinin' for the good ol' days, hey?

Well, we are, so I guess sometimes we do.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We're startin' to sound like a bunch of old farts pinin' for the good ol' days, hey?

From a young alum's POV...yep

[willie warrior]

You're right, Willie, regarding how people felt back in the day. I graduated in 1970, the year that picture of Willie Wampum was taken. To us at the time, racism was what was going on overtly in Selma and Birmingham and in the shadows in Chicago and Milwaukee. Willie Wampum was a silly caricature who didn't bother anyone I knew. You couldn't, can't and shouldn't compare the two. That said, he was a thoughtless and demeaning caricature of real people, so when the issue came to the fore I had no difficulty kissing him good bye. I always felt that losing "Warriors" was an exercise in PC but that Willie had to go. What's your take?

Willie Wampum never really bothered me, and maybe because I was in the Military from 67-70 and did not follow MU as well during that period. Never really thought about it and that was well before the internet/twitter etc., where others opinions were not well known. But getting rid of the name Warriors was just plain idiotic and in my opinion going overboard with PC. There is nothing racist about Warrior, and Golden Eagles is lame.
Man, to get bent out of shape over Warriors is way overboard PC. What about Warhawks, Blackhawks, Seminoles, Vikings, Fightin' Irish, Redskins, Cherokees etc? Look at some of the pro Teams: Jazz (Hmmm), Warriors, etc. People could object to those also. Just Stupid.

[MUSF]

Just for the record; who are your sources that "pretty much everyone associated...believed that to be the case. You were there in the 70's and participated in that I guess. You made the reference to white guy in fake headdress. And is that why the name Warrior was discontinued? Because that was racist. That is what I was referring to. But go ahead and continue with your thought police pomposity.

No one is telling you what to think. I know you would really like to think that you are a martyr to some higher cause of free thought, but that is not the issue here.

[GGGG]

Willie Wampum never really bothered me, and maybe because I was in the Military from 67-70 and did not follow MU as well during that period. Never really thought about it and that was well before the internet/twitter etc., where others opinions were not well known. But getting rid of the name Warriors was just plain idiotic and in my opinion going overboard with PC. There is nothing racist about Warrior, and Golden Eagles is lame.
Man, to get bent out of shape over Warriors is way overboard PC. What about Warhawks, Blackhawks, Seminoles, Vikings, Fightin' Irish, Redskins, Cherokees etc? Look at some of the pro Teams: Jazz (Hmmm), Warriors, etc. People could object to those also. Just Stupid.

No one here is getting bent out of shape over the name Warriors.  The problem was Willie Wampum.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Ya know, back in the day, ya couldn't tell someone they were ugly. Now, ya can't tell anyone they're good lookin' either.

Brent Musberger?

[Avenue Commons]

Would not have affect Marquette at all.... only applies to public schools.

The 1st Amendment gives you the right to voice your opinion, it doesn't give you the right to force someone else to change their perspective just because you don't like it (although this is a common misinterpretation of our Constitution).

Nevertheless, when less than 10% of a population agrees on a contrary position, I'd be willing to bet that very few of their of their positions have any legitimacy.

Right, we are actually saying the same thing but viewing it differently. Requiring 10% of a group, as opposed to a single American citizen, in order to voice an opinion to the government is (arguably) unconstitutional. The argument is that requiring 10%, or any other threshold, for an individual to protest the government creates a chilling factor.

We'll see. Things like this usually end up in the court system and con law scholars much smarter than us sort it out.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Brent Musberger?

  "Get Out of Jail Free" card when you're over 90

[Avenue Commons]

Yep Just like the ND Mascot is offensive to the Irish; the Redskin nickname is racist; the Fla. State mascot is racist; the Minn. Viking is offensive to Swedes/Norwegians; Warhawks are racist; etc. etc. The Thought Police are coming and we will be made to see their way. C'mon man, you need to lighten up a bit, or is your thong too tight?

ND analogy is not apt. Notre Dame was founded by Irish Americans and the nickname is a reference to themselves. One could argue, to a lesser degree, the same thing about the Minnesota Vikings and the swedes/norwegians that live up there.

Last time I checked there weren't any Native Americans affiliated with the Washington Redskins. Not many at Marquette, either.

Redskins and the Willie Wampum caricature are absolutely racist. If one wants to make an argument that these mascots should be permitted in the face of that racism, that's one thing. There are some fair arguments that Willie Wampum/Warriors nickname and the Redskins nickname are not meant to be offensive and in a way even honor the toughness of the Native American people. But to entirely deny the racist element on those two fronts is just absurd.