Wiscy Box Score

[tower912]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/gameflash/2013/12/07/89329/#boxscore

[4everwarriors]

Startin' backcourt=1/6

[ChicosBailBonds]

4 turnovers by the Vadgers...that's impressive

[Stronghold]

4 turnovers by the Vadgers...that's impressive

3 were early on in the first half

[4everwarriors]

Says as much about MU as it does about UW.

[tower912]

Startin' backcourt=1/6

Backcourt subs  0/3.   Counting Deonte. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Says as much about MU as it does about UW.

Says they don't piss their pants much

[4everwarriors]

Says MU's defense isn't turnin' folks over, a'ina?

[Stronghold]

Even though UW made 7 3's, they didn't necessarily shoot well but still... 27 attempts??  At 3/8 it looks like we should have let a few more fly.

[chapman]

Says as much about MU as it does about UW.

A sort of double-edged sword with the "solid" man defenders.  The younger but vastly more athletic players might not be perfect with the defensive scheme, but they can get you a pick pocket or two for a breakaway slam.

[DaCoach]

Another opponent makes more FTs than we shoot. Every game it becomes more apparent that our starting guards are predictably inadequate against decent opposition. I love Buzz to death but this team team is terribly unbalanced from the offensive end.

[NersEllenson]

4 turnovers by the Vadgers...that's impressive

But wait...we have the amazing defensive presence in Derrick Wilson and Jake Thomas, who are so valuable on the defensive end, we can live with their woefully bad offensive games...

Give me a break....the drop off defensively isn't going to be that great going to Dawson and JJJ.  Mayo obviously would have helped today - yet we had some goobers suggesting the team was better off without Todd after a decent offensive performance against ASU.  Please.

[MUSF]

But wait...we have the amazing defensive presence in Derrick Wilson and Jake Thomas, who are so valuable on the defensive end, we can live with their woefully bad offensive games...

Give me a break....the drop off defensively isn't going to be that great going to Dawson and JJJ.  Mayo obviously would have helped today - yet we had some goobers suggesting the team was better off without Todd after a decent offensive performance against ASU.  Please.

Did you see the backups play? What about their performance makes you think they are the answer?

At this point we are better off without Todd because he ain't a team player off the court and sometimes on the court. Sure Todd's offense would help if and when he decides he wants to act and play like an equal member of this team. When he does, we're very good. When he doesn't he's a detriment.

[NersEllenson]

Did you see the backups play? What about their performance makes you think they are the answer?

At this point we are better off without Todd because he ain't a team player off the court and sometimes on the court. Sure Todd's offense would help if and when he decides he wants to act and play like an equal member of this team. When he does, we're very good. When he doesn't he's a detriment.

Yes I saw the backups play, and I've gotten 2 games against high level competition - Wisconsin and Ohio State - to watch what Derrick Wilson and Jake Thomas are capable of.  The stats don't lie.  It can't get any worse, and getting the freshman's feet wet now serves the program much better in the long run - they are the future - not Derrick and Jake.  Freshman can play on a big stage when talented, and given long stretches of run - see Wesley, McNeal, Dom James.  The reality is, is that Burton, Duane, JJJ are all as highly ranked/higher ranked coming into MU tas were Wes, Rel and Dom.

As for Mayo - I'd still want him on the team as he greatly improves our chances of winning and is far better than Jake.  I don't care if Jake is the ultimate teammate - I want to win, and the players inside that locker room want to win - and your best players, help you win - Jake is not the best player at his position, and I certainly don't believe Derrick Wilson is the answer at PG either - and believe Dawson is a much better player, just based off of what I've seen in Dawson's limited PT, compared to Derrick's body of work in his MU career.

[GGGG]

Yes I saw the backups play, and I've gotten 2 games against high level competition - Wisconsin and Ohio State - to watch what Derrick Wilson and Jake Thomas are capable of.  The stats don't lie.  It can't get any worse, and getting the freshman's feet wet now serves the program much better in the long run - they are the future - not Derrick and Jake.  Freshman can play on a big stage when talented, and given long stretches of run - see Wesley, McNeal, Dom James.  The reality is, is that Burton, Duane, JJJ are all as highly ranked/higher ranked coming into MU tas were Wes, Rel and Dom.

JJJ played 10 minutes, didn't take a shot and picked up two personal fouls.  Burton played a bunch and was 0-3, but got to the line a couple times, and was a matador defensively.  Dawson played a few minutes, but Buzz didn't even have him run the point.

And I will point out that we were down 11 with about 5 minutes to go, and Buzz pretty much put the starting line up back in, and they cut it to 3 points at 2:08.  (Davante and Otule both played during that stretch.) 

[MU82]

Says MU's defense isn't turnin' folks over, a'ina?

One of the little disappointments for me so far is that we have so few points off turnovers.

I didn't expect us to be a run-and-gun team, but we are supposed to be a very good defensive team and we simply don't get enough easy baskets.

[MUSF]

Yes I saw the backups play, and I've gotten 2 games against high level competition - Wisconsin and Ohio State - to watch what Derrick Wilson and Jake Thomas are capable of.  The stats don't lie.  It can't get any worse, and getting the freshman's feet wet now serves the program much better in the long run - they are the future - not Derrick and Jake.  Freshman can play on a big stage when talented, and given long stretches of run - see Wesley, McNeal, Dom James.  The reality is, is that Burton, Duane, JJJ are all as highly ranked/higher ranked coming into MU tas were Wes, Rel and Dom.

One of the biggest fallacies in sports: Player X is not very good, so Player Y can't be worse.

We've seen the backups play in this case, and I do think they are worse.

[MarquetteDano]

One of the little disappointments for me so far is that we have so few points off turnovers.

I didn't expect us to be a run-and-gun team, but we are supposed to be a very good defensive team and we simply don't get enough easy baskets.

Agreed.  We didn't cause of a lot of turnovers today but we will cause more against other teams that don't handle the ball as well.  When there are turnovers, we need to be more aggressive on getting easy baskets.

Added, we are a pretty good rebounding team.  That could lead to some fast breaks too.

Both Wilson and Thomas and whomever is playing the '3' (guard, switchable, whomever) need to be more aggressive on turnovers and rebounds.  Too many times they casually bring the ball up not looking up court for opportunities to run.

I don't think we are going to be a run-and-gun team either, but we need some easy baskets because our half court offense is average.

[GGGG]

Thomas and Wilson are more positional defenders and don't jump into passing lanes like Junior and Vander did.

[NersEllenson]

One of the biggest fallacies in sports: Player X is not very good, so Player Y can't be worse.

We've seen the backups play in this case, and I do think they are worse.

What I'm advocating is, is let me see the backups for 30+ minutes per game as Derrick ALWAYS gets, and Jake usually gets.  There is a lot about getting into the rhythm of a game - that translates into results - when you get 3 minutes of run at a time, and then yanked - it's hard to do anything.

I'm just blown away that people are still arguing for Derrick and Jake saying things could get worse - the combined stats of Ohio State and Wisconsin games are:

Derrick - 2 of 12 FG, 2 assists, 4 Turnovers - Derrick got 38 and 39 minutes in those games
Jake - 0 of 8 FG, 2 assists, 3 Turnovers - Jake got 29 and 26 minutes

Please for the love of GOD, tell me how it could get worse??!!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yes I saw the backups play, and I've gotten 2 games against high level competition - Wisconsin and Ohio State - to watch what Derrick Wilson and Jake Thomas are capable of.  The stats don't lie.  It can't get any worse, and getting the freshman's feet wet now serves the program much better in the long run - they are the future - not Derrick and Jake.  Freshman can play on a big stage when talented, and given long stretches of run - see Wesley, McNeal, Dom James.  The reality is, is that Burton, Duane, JJJ are all as highly ranked/higher ranked coming into MU tas were Wes, Rel and Dom.

As for Mayo - I'd still want him on the team as he greatly improves our chances of winning and is far better than Jake.  I don't care if Jake is the ultimate teammate - I want to win, and the players inside that locker room want to win - and your best players, help you win - Jake is not the best player at his position, and I certainly don't believe Derrick Wilson is the answer at PG either - and believe Dawson is a much better player, just based off of what I've seen in Dawson's limited PT, compared to Derrick's body of work in his MU career.

For the 1000th time, guys get the minutes they earn. If John Dawson was killing Derrick in practice, and was doing everything Buzz wanted, he would get minutes.

We have never seen Buzz give a player meaningful minutes "just because" or "to see what happens". That's what what cupcakes are for (Grambling).

When the games are "real", the toughest guys are going to play.

[GGGG]

What I'm advocating is, is let me see the backups for 30+ minutes per game as Derrick ALWAYS gets, and Jake usually gets.  There is a lot about getting into the rhythm of a game - that translates into results - when you get 3 minutes of run at a time, and then yanked - it's hard to do anything.

I'm just blown away that people are still arguing for Derrick and Jake saying things could get worse - the combined stats of Ohio State and Wisconsin games are:

Derrick - 2 of 12 FG, 2 assists, 4 Turnovers - Derrick got 38 and 39 minutes in those games
Jake - 0 of 8 FG, 2 assists, 3 Turnovers - Jake got 29 and 26 minutes

Please for the love of GOD, tell me how it could get worse??!!

They were within 3 with two minutes to go against a top 10 team on the road.

It can get A LOT worse than that.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

What I'm advocating is, is let me see the backups for 30+ minutes per game as Derrick ALWAYS gets, and Jake usually gets.  

I would like to see that too... but Buzz isn't going to to it "just because".

The back-ups will have to EARN it.

[NersEllenson]

I would like to see that too... but Buzz isn't going to to it "just because".

The back-ups will have to EARN it.

There is also the notion that a starter can EARN their way out of a starting position, based on their play in games.

I don't care what practice looks like, I care about games.  See what the freshman can do under the big lights at this point - they are the future.  What do you have to lose?  We've already lost 4 games to the 4 decent teams we've played.

[NersEllenson]

Thomas and Wilson are more positional defenders and don't jump into passing lanes like Junior and Vander did.

So why don't Derrick and Jake play the passing lanes more often and try to create some turnovers?  This team has ZERO transition game, and creates ZERO points off of turnovers - which usually are created by a disruptive backcourt.

They were within 3 with two minutes to go against a top 10 team on the road.

It can get A LOT worse than that.

I do find it remarkable that they were in the game, when the production of your 39 minute PG and 28 minute Shooting Guard, was as paltry as it was.  Says a lot for Devante and Jamil.  If only our major minute guards could bring some scoring or forced turnovers to the table - perhaps we'd have won at WI or the other decent opponents we've played.