Why can't we stay at 10?

[Eldon]

Butler Xavier and Creighton are great additions.  Why can't we stay at 10?  Fox may be pushing for 12, but I don't understand why.  More content?  This is an all-sports channel, not the Big East channel so I don't get the 'more content' argument.  Couldn't we stay at 10 teams and leave our schedule open for greater flexibility with non-conference games?  Why doesn't Fox want this? (or do they, but it conflicts with the non-con opponent's TV deal?) 

I'd rather have 10 teams and schedule awesome noncon games (eg Vandy, Florida, TN, etc) than play Dayton or even SLU once or twice a year.  Besides, by not adding them, where else are they going to go?  In other words, those teams will always be there whenever (if ever) we want them (sorry SLU fans, I know that sounds arrogant).

[MU82]

So true.

I know it sounds arrogant but it's not disparaging St. Louis, it's just stating the fact of the TV dollars. It's not that St. Louis will come running because they're dying to play in Marquette's league. It's that St. Louis would come running because they'd like a TV contract that pays them several times more than the A-10 deal will. As Bubba Clinton said: "It's arithmetic."

[brewcity77]

It's all about the number of games we have to offer for programming. If we play an 18 game schedule, 10 teams only gives you 90 games. If you go to 12 teams, you have 126 games to offer. Two teams provides you with 40% more games.

[Sunbelt15]

It's all about the number of games we have to offer for programming. If we play an 18 game schedule, 10 teams only gives you 90 games. If you go to 12 teams, you have 126 games to offer. Two teams provides you with 40% more games.

That makes sense.

[dinger]

I think they do stay at 10 at least for a year or two. Expansion may be on the table, but I would imagine that the next order of business is getting a commissioner and getting the league rolling with the ten teams it has. Unless there is a hurry, I don't see a need to make a snap judgement on further expansion and in my mind we yoinked the three best available teams.

I have no problems offhand with adding the other teams but honestly...The other expansion targets will probably still be there in two years if we need to expand for the tv contract. If they are not...oh well. It just makes sense to stand put for a while.

[We R Final Four]

I see your point.  However, a great non-conf game to me doesn't involve Vandy.  Of all the teams not in our conf.........Vandy?

[Mods, Delete me please. 8/26/2020]

So true.

I know it sounds arrogant but it's not disparaging St. Louis, it's just stating the fact of the TV dollars. It's not that St. Louis will come running because they're dying to play in Marquette's league. It's that St. Louis would come running because they'd like a TV contract that pays them several times more than the A-10 deal will. As Bubba Clinton said: "It's arithmetic."

Would you change your mind on SLU if they made a deep run in the tourney?   They are having a great year and are very capable of an Elite Eight.   Wouldn't be suprised if they knocked off Butler later today to win the A-10.   MU's BEast invite was (partially) based on a strong run in 2003, VCU upgraded to A10 as a result of recent success,  and Butler jumped up two notches because of their play the past few years.   Just saying, SLU has had some recent success and could make a deep run this year -- and it seems like they are committed to keeping that program at a high level.   Would a S16 or E8 change your mind?  Dayton on the other hand............

[Mr. Nielsen]

It's all about the number of games we have to offer for programming. If we play an 18 game schedule, 10 teams only gives you 90 games. If you go to 12 teams, you have 126 games to offer. Two teams provides you with 40% more games.

You are correct again!

The Fuel Tv channel will be Fox Sports 2. So, there will be two cable channels.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Butler Xavier and Creighton are great additions.  Why can't we stay at 10?  Fox may be pushing for 12, but I don't understand why.  More content?  This is an all-sports channel, not the Big East channel so I don't get the 'more content' argument.  Couldn't we stay at 10 teams and leave our schedule open for greater flexibility with non-conference games?  Why doesn't Fox want this? (or do they, but it conflicts with the non-con opponent's TV deal?) 

I'd rather have 10 teams and schedule awesome noncon games (eg Vandy, Florida, TN, etc) than play Dayton or even SLU once or twice a year.  Besides, by not adding them, where else are they going to go?  In other words, those teams will always be there whenever (if ever) we want them (sorry SLU fans, I know that sounds arrogant).

Absolutely more content.  They need programming.  Two extra teams means a lot of extra games.  They have a massive number of hours they have to fill.

Remember, takes two to tango.  We need a programming partner and they need a conference.  Ideally, 10 would be great but our television partner who is paying the bills needs more content.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I see your point.  However, a great non-conf game to me doesn't involve Vandy.  Of all the teams not in our conf.........Vandy?

Vandy is poor this year, but has been a very, very solid program for quite some time.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are correct again!

The Fuel Tv channel will be Fox Sports 2. So, there will be two cable channels.

Actually, three...though the third one is very much up in the air how it will be developed and if any sports will be on it.  Think FX right now and how for years it had no sports but then started randomly carrying football (though there was nothing random about it.    )

[muwarrior69]

Chicos, do you think Fox would air some games on the FOX network ala ESPN/ABC?

[Litehouse]

The main report so far said Fox would pay $500M for 10 teams and $600M for 12 teams.  They'll pay the same amount per team.  Assuming it's split evenly, there's no advantage going to 12.  They may want more content, but they aren't willing to incrementally pay more per team for it.  If we go to 12 we'd get the same amount of TV money, but we'd have to split NCAA credits with 2 more teams, and we'd lose a perfect round-robin schedule to help develop rivalries.  They only beneficiaries would be the last 2 schools in.

**edited with cven's correction

[cven7]

It's all about the number of games we have to offer for programming. If we play an 18 game schedule, 10 teams only gives you 90 games. If you go to 12 teams, you have 126 games to offer. Two teams provides you with 40% more games.

This is incorrect.   Even if the Big East goes to 12 teams, it would likely continue to have a 18 game conference schedule (like we do currently), yielding a schedule of 7 home & home's (14 games), 2 away only's (2), and 2 home only's (2).  This ends up at 108 games total for the league, a 20% increase in game volumes proportional to the increase in conference membership.

Since it's reported that Fox is offering the exact annual revenue per team if we have 10 or 12 teams ($500M/12years/10teams vs. $600M/12years/12teams), there's no added television revenue from adding two more teams now.  You could make the argument that there's added value from adding two more teams other than just television revenue, but there's also potential damage to the brand due to the comparative profiles.

Regardless, SLU, Dayton, Richmond, or VCU aren't going to get an offer from an equivalent or better conference than the Big East, so there's no need to rush to 12.   Once a team is let in, they are awfully hard to kick out, so they need to choose wisely.

[chapman]

Regardless, SLU, Dayton, Richmond, or VCU aren't going to get an offer from an equivalent or better conference than the Big East, so there's no need to rush to 12.   Once a team is let in, they are awfully hard to kick out, so they need to choose wisely.

Agree.  And if the financial incentive isn't overwhelming, let's wait that year, maybe two.  Make sure the wheels don't fall off at SLU and they continue on their upward trend, see if all that money floating around Richmond is good enough to field a team good enough for this conference.  Unless the dollars are too good to pass up (which at least one report says probably not), you get to have auditions.

[mu_hilltopper]

Question:  Couldn't FOX be the partner for some (all) of the B7's non-conference games as well?  

So instead of 90 vs. 126 .. FOX gets to pick up all 90, plus, say the 5 best OOC games per each of the 10 teams.  

[Jet915]

Question:  Couldn't FOX be the partner for some (all) of the B7's non-conference games as well?  

So instead of 90 vs. 126 .. FOX gets to pick up all 90, plus, say the 5 best OOC games per each of the 10 teams.  

I think Fox will have the rights to those OOC IF those games are played at home.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The main report so far said Fox would pay $500M for 10 teams and $600M for 12 teams.  They'll pay the same amount per team.  Assuming it's split evenly, there's no advantage going to 12.  They may want more content, but they aren't willing to incrementally pay more per team for it.  If we go to 12 we'd get the same amount of TV money, but we'd have to split NCAA credits with 2 more teams, and we'd lose a perfect round-robin schedule to help develop rivalries.  They only beneficiaries would be the last 2 schools in.

**edited with cven's correction

You may also gain some additional credits by putting 1 or more teams into the mix that make the tournament.   Also provides you some stability to have 12 in the event a few schools have some really crappy seasons.  It can work both ways. 

[Eldon]

It's all about the number of games we have to offer for programming. If we play an 18 game schedule, 10 teams only gives you 90 games. If you go to 12 teams, you have 126 games to offer. Two teams provides you with 40% more games.

Sorry man, but I still don't get why we can't fill that 40% with non-conference games.  

In 2011-12 season, when the SEC had 12 teams (before TAMU and Mizzou joined), they played 31 regular season games and 15 were out of conference.  This year, however, they still played 31 reg season games but only 13 were out of conference.  So to accommodate TAMU and Mizzou, they gave up two noncon games.

Make the parallel to our new league: to accommodate SLU and Dayton, we have to give up noncon games (or playing one of the original 10 members twice) and those foregone games could have been against vastly superior opponents, which boosts our SOS, profile of the league, and to some extent (however small) our geographical footprint.

Now I can see why the B10 needs to expand like crazy--they have a whole network devoted to B10 and only B10, but our new network isn't exclusively Big East, so I don't see the need to go to 12 UNLESS Fox has to pay the B10 network to televise a noncon game between Gtown and, say, MSU.

[Avenue Commons]

Butler Xavier and Creighton are great additions.  Why can't we stay at 10?  Fox may be pushing for 12, but I don't understand why. 

Let me list the reasons for you:

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[bilsu]

I think it will be easier to make NCAA tournament with 12 teams as the league should get at least one more bid with 12 vs. 10.

[brewcity77]

Sorry man, but I still don't get why we can't fill that 40% with non-conference games.  

It's 20%, cven was right. I knew that but was doing quick math on the way out the door and miscalculated. 108 games vs 90.

And it's impossible to fill it with non-conference games because we will likely be playing an 18 game schedule regardless. With an 18-game schedule, every team is going to only be able to play 13 non-conference games. Whether the league provides 108 games or 90 games to Fox, the individual universities still only play 13 non-con games. None of those games are guaranteed to Fox.

We need to provide as much content as possible, and that means 12+ teams. It's more likely we'll end up going to 14 or 16 than ever staying at 10. If we do go 10, I would be absolutely shocked if it's for more than 1 year.

[Mufflers]

90 games in 63 days... 45 Saturday and Sunday games during 9 weekends... 45 games spread over the remaining 45 days... Why are more games needed?

[bradley center bat]

FX will not have sports on that network anymore.

[brewcity77]

90 games in 63 days... 45 Saturday and Sunday games during 9 weekends... 45 games spread over the remaining 45 days... Why are more games needed?

How many of those games will be desirable? I'd guess you'll see both a Saturday triple-header and Sunday double-header. If you have 5 games per weekend, there's no flexibility to allow you to show something other than DePaul/Seton Hall. I'd also guess they'll want to play games at least 3 times per week, most likely Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday. If you have 45 weekend games, you also only have 45 weekday games over 9 weeks. That's 5 games per week. Not that much.

That's why I think we'll expand beyond 12. 108 is a starting point, but they'll want more if they can get them.