Poll: What Becomes Of Todd Mayo?

[GGGG]

Nobody (except for you) is arguing that Vander is better offensively.  Vander significantly better defensively and because of that he will continue to be the starter.

If I had to combine 2 people at the 2-guard spot to get the majority of minutes between Vander, Todd and Trent I'd pick Vander and Trent. 

Not to mention, the implication (without any evidence) that the only reason that Mayo isn't starting is because of Vander's ego.  They complement one another very well and I am sure they both realize that.

[strotty]

Vander starts because he's better everywhere except shooting from beyond the arc.

[GGGG]

Vander starts because he's better everywhere except shooting from beyond the arc.

And the vaunted "Ners' Eyeball Test." (tm)

[Clam Crowder]

Vander starts because he's better everywhere except shooting from beyond the arc.

I don't know about everywhere...He and Todd both pretty good at driving to the lane, both are fairly athletic, and both are reasonable defenders. Van definitely has him beat in defense, and Todd definitely has Van beat in 3 point shooting. That being said Van contributes to every facet of the game in ways that Todd can't. While not necessarily better everywhere he contributes to many more areas than Todd (rebounding, steals, blocks). Van also is a little more intense out there, sometimes Todd seems passive, and as noted a couple of times last year can have a disinterested look at times.

[Dr. Blackheart]

He (OJ) scored a 29 on the ACT, placing him in the 95th percentile nationally;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Mayo

Pretty sure Todd's parents strongly support Todd's education and career (and Buzz in this).  One of the reasons Todd jumped schools was to follow his brother in the NBA and to get in the right schools nearby (or Prep to improve grades...Memphis and WV are not exactly the hotbeds of education). Also, a NCAA SA can only take six credits in the summer, so Todd could have fulfilled that quota in earlier summer sessions (2 or 3 classes with no team activities). Not all kids enjoy school and the rigors of being a Student-Athlete. Getting away to decide one's future is not a bad idea.

[Lennys Tap]

Vander starts because he's better everywhere except shooting from beyond the arc.

This just isn't true. Todd is a better shooter/finisher period, not just from the "3". He shot almost 5% better on 2 point attempts (48.4 - 43.6) and 5.4% better from the line (76.2 - 70.8).

Vander is the better defender (though Todd is very good) and the better rebounder. His assist/turnover rate is also better.

Overall, a very close call. I agree with Sultan - Vander starts (like Otule) because of defense, but Mayo is in there an awful lot at crunch time.

[Tugg Speedman]

In the past, Buzz hasn't announced players not returning until they kids found a transfer home.  I am assuming that's what's happening this time too.

I guess it's easier on the player if the PR says that "XXX player is transfering to school YYY" instead of "XXX player has been cut by MU."

If they want him out, why suspend him?  Tell him to go find another school and transfer without the stigma of being suspended.  Everyone saves face under this scenario.

He was suspended because whatever the problem is/was it is within Mayo's ability to correct it.  The question is weather he will?  Answer, he attended the first session of summer school for a reason.

[Pakuni]

I don't know about everywhere...He and Todd both pretty good at driving to the lane, both are fairly athletic, and both are reasonable defenders. Van definitely has him beat in defense, and Todd definitely has Van beat in 3 point shooting. That being said Van contributes to every facet of the game in ways that Todd can't. While not necessarily better everywhere he contributes to many more areas than Todd (rebounding, steals, blocks). Van also is a little more intense out there, sometimes Todd seems passive, and as noted a couple of times last year can have a disinterested look at times.

Besides another eyeball test, upon what are you basing your assertion that Todd is a pretty good defender.
One thing that jumps out at me - not in a good way - is Todd's foul rate. Todd committed 70 fouls in just 737 minutes played, or about one found for 10.5 minutes played. That's a bad rate for a perimeter player. Vander, for example, committed 58 fouls in 901 minutes (every 15.5 minutes). DJO committed 68 fouls in 1,120 minutes (every 16.5 minutes).
Of guys who got regular minutes, only Jamil - who often found himself guarding fives - and Davante committed more fouls per minute than Todd.

Also, for all the talk of being more comfortable with the ball in Todd's hands, he was the only perimeter player last year with more turnovers (57) than assists (42).

Todd definitely has more offensive game than Vander, but his all-around game is lacking.

[esotericmindguy]

Where did this come from?  Why does he strike you as a "punk?"  And the reason he isn't working with the team is because he is suspended...duh...and the likely reason he is travelling the globe is because his brother is an NBA player. 

Talk about jumping to conclusions. 

Punks don't study, act lackadaisical on the court, run away when time get tough. Couldn't he be playing in the pro am?? That's not a school related function.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Couldn't he be playing in the pro am?? That's not a school related function.

The Pro Am is a NCAA certified event.  Todd is suspended as a MU NCAA basketball player...so the answer is no.

[mu03eng]

Besides another eyeball test, upon what are you basing your assertion that Todd is a pretty good defender.
One thing that jumps out at me - not in a good way - is Todd's foul rate. Todd committed 70 fouls in just 737 minutes played, or about one found for 10.5 minutes played. That's a bad rate for a perimeter player. Vander, for example, committed 58 fouls in 901 minutes (every 15.5 minutes). DJO committed 68 fouls in 1,120 minutes (every 16.5 minutes).
Of guys who got regular minutes, only Jamil - who often found himself guarding fives - and Davante committed more fouls per minute than Todd.

Also, for all the talk of being more comfortable with the ball in Todd's hands, he was the only perimeter player last year with more turnovers (57) than assists (42).

Todd definitely has more offensive game than Vander, but his all-around game is lacking.

Not to mention that Vander handles the ball more and runs the offense through him more than Todd.  Not sure if there is a fancy statistical way to prove it but I think most of Van's offense came late in possessions and Todd's was early, meaning Todd was an offensive focus whereas Van was not.

[Earl Tatum]

QUESTION;  If Mayo does not comeback, do we get another schollie for next year, or can Buzz fill in 2012 this coming season?

[GoldenEagleExchange]

Todd just posted on Facebook that he is working out in South Africa.  He also said that he is coming home soon.

[GoldenEagleExchange]

QUESTION;  If Mayo does not comeback, do we get another schollie for next year, or can Buzz fill in 2012 this coming season?

I would guess Buzz would give the scholarship to Swanson.

[strotty]

This just isn't true. Todd is a better shooter/finisher period, not just from the "3". He shot almost 5% better on 2 point attempts (48.4 - 43.6) and 5.4% better from the line (76.2 - 70.8).

Vander is the better defender (though Todd is very good) and the better rebounder. His assist/turnover rate is also better.

Overall, a very close call. I agree with Sultan - Vander starts (like Otule) because of defense, but Mayo is in there an awful lot at crunch time.

I'll take Blue in transition or in the half court on offense. You have to take into account when these guys played, who they played with and who they played against. Mayo was rarely in a position where he needed to take a shot or step up and be the guy. Blue did. Blue is quicker, more physical and more athletic. Mayo was definitely efficient, but he was never really asked to do all that much in terms of scoring.

[GGGG]

I actually don't think that they are as far apart as my comments might lead people to believe.  I like Mayo a lot, and there were some times last year when he definitely needed to be on the floor at the end of games because he was the better offensive option.  I also think that they should be getting roughly equal minutes, with the variance being who is hot at a particular time and what Buzz needs on the floor.

But I think the idea of "who starts," while a cute discussion, is silly because starting doesn't matter in the end.  Crunch time minutes is what matters...and both had their times on the floor last year when it mattered.

[Nukem2]

I actually don't think that they are as far apart as my comments might lead people to believe.  I like Mayo a lot, and there were some times last year when he definitely needed to be on the floor at the end of games because he was the better offensive option.  I also think that they should be getting roughly equal minutes, with the variance being who is hot at a particular time and what Buzz needs on the floor.

But I think the idea of "who starts," while a cute discussion, is silly because starting doesn't matter in the end.  Crunch time minutes is what matters...and both had their times on the floor last year when it mattered.

Yep starting is really over-rated.  Particularly with Buzz, who runs guys in and out of the game except for froncourt stalwarts ala Hayward/Butler/Crowder/(Wilson this year).....

[Freeport Warrior]

Mayo was rarely in a position where he needed to take a shot or step up and be the guy.

If rarely means the Wisconsin game, I'll take it. Mayo passes the eye test for me as well. He has the potential to be the DJO replacement in scoring. I'm not a Vander hater, but Mayo's game is just so much more refined than Blue's.  Mayo's shot is pure. I hope we don't lose him.

[Lennys Tap]

You have to take into account when these guys played, who they played with and who they played against. Mayo was rarely in a position where he needed to take a shot or step up and be the guy. Blue did.

This is nothing short of nonsense. Both Blue and Mayo played important minutes with the same players and against our opponents best. And in those minutes, Mayo was more effective at being "the guy" offensively. That's because a) he's a better outside shooter, b) he's a better mid range shooter, and c) despite Vander's size and athleticism, Todd's the better finisher. That's what the numbers say and that's what my eyeballs saw.

Vander is an elite athlete who made big strides as a basketball player last year, but anyone who saw him as a superior player to Mayo on the offensive end last year didn't watch the same MU team that I did.

[kmwtrucks]

The thing that stands out for me R/E Mayo is he can create his own shot in the 1/2 court Vs top teams, Vander does not do that well at all and Vs the elite D teams we played it was even worse.  You need some people that can get a good shot off with 7 seconds or less left on the shot clock.  DJO could do it, Crowder could often becuase he could pull a big out on D and use a little quickness, Jimmy could do it.    

[Benny B]

In the past, Buzz hasn't announced players not returning until they kids found a transfer home.  I am assuming that's what's happening this time too.

That's exactly what happened with Jamail Jones... MU announced his release on April 27, but he (presumably) didn't commit to FGCU until late-May/early-June as that announcement was made Jun 9.

Of course, one could assume that FGCU just sat on the announcement for 4-5 weeks, but if Todd was already informally committed somewhere else, WTF is he doing in Sud Afrique and why on earth did he take summer classes at MU?

[Clam Crowder]

Besides another eyeball test, upon what are you basing your assertion that Todd is a pretty good defender.
One thing that jumps out at me - not in a good way - is Todd's foul rate. Todd committed 70 fouls in just 737 minutes played, or about one found for 10.5 minutes played. That's a bad rate for a perimeter player. Vander, for example, committed 58 fouls in 901 minutes (every 15.5 minutes). DJO committed 68 fouls in 1,120 minutes (every 16.5 minutes).
Of guys who got regular minutes, only Jamil - who often found himself guarding fives - and Davante committed more fouls per minute than Todd.

Also, for all the talk of being more comfortable with the ball in Todd's hands, he was the only perimeter player last year with more turnovers (57) than assists (42).

Todd definitely has more offensive game than Vander, but his all-around game is lacking.

Well yes that's why I said that Vander has a better all-around game and affects it in more ways than Todd. I also made the point of saying Todd is a pretty good defender, but yet I conceded that Vander has him beat in this area which he does. The T/O to assist ratio of 2G is not as important as it is for the PG. I admit that that this is a pretty troubling statistic for Todd, but yet I said that I don't think Vander is better than him in every facet of the game. I think Todd is better from deep, from mid-range (anything involving a jump shot), and Vander's driving ability is not significantly greater than Todd's. With these two it will always be a defensive stalwart and a guy who puts up points in bunches. Each could get significant minutes, each should get significant minutes. What makes it so Vander gets more is how he affects the game in so many more areas than Todd. Todd has 1 skill, Van has many.

[brewcity77]

At first I though it was laughable that this was turning into a Blue v Mayo thread, then I saw who was responsible for that happening, and it made sense.

They are different players that fulfill different roles. And after next year, I could easily see it not being a case of which one of the two starts, but who starts alongside both of them. But I suppose it doesn't make sense to try to look at our players in complimentary roles when we can look at them in antagonistic roles. After all, some people just aren't happy if they aren't arguing.

Though admittedly, this was probably the funniest line...

I would guess Buzz would give the scholarship to Swanson.

Really? He'd get the scholarship over Jake Thomas, who earned it last year and is more likely to be in line for minutes next year (even if only 5-10)? Sorry, I just don't buy that.

[Lennys Tap]

Besides another eyeball test, upon what are you basing your assertion that Todd is a pretty good defender.
One thing that jumps out at me - not in a good way - is Todd's foul rate. Todd committed 70 fouls in just 737 minutes played, or about one found for 10.5 minutes played. That's a bad rate for a perimeter player. Vander, for example, committed 58 fouls in 901 minutes (every 15.5 minutes). DJO committed 68 fouls in 1,120 minutes (every 16.5 minutes).
Of guys who got regular minutes, only Jamil - who often found himself guarding fives - and Davante committed more fouls per minute than Todd.

Derrick Wilson had 51 fouls in 292 minutes (one every 5.8 minutes) while Junior Cadougan had 71 in 972 (every 13.7 minutes). By that metric Derrick was probably one of the worst perimeter defensive players in college basketball and vastly inferior to Junior. I would disagree. So would Buzz, who often subbed Derrick and Junior in offensive/defensive situations.

[Clam Crowder]

At first I though it was laughable that this was turning into a Blue v Mayo thread, then I saw who was responsible for that happening, and it made sense.

They are different players that fulfill different roles. And after next year, I could easily see it not being a case of which one of the two starts, but who starts alongside both of them. But I suppose it doesn't make sense to try to look at our players in complimentary roles when we can look at them in antagonistic roles. After all, some people just aren't happy if they aren't arguing.

Though admittedly, this was probably the funniest line...

Really? He'd get the scholarship over Jake Thomas, who earned it last year and is more likely to be in line for minutes next year (even if only 5-10)? Sorry, I just don't buy that.

Jake is probably about 6-3 actually...He is a pretty big and built kid.