What/Who is Hiroshima?

[Lennys Tap]

Just in case you are really young and really Sarah Palinish when it comes to American and world history and really don't know who/what Hiroshima is ...

It's the city in Japan where the U.S. dropped the first atom bomb in 1945. Three days later, a second bomb drop, at Nagasaki, effectively ended World War II.

About 160,000 people died directly from the two bombings, and thousands upon thousands more died from the aftereffects. So, obviously, a kid transferring from one college to another to play basketball would result in similar devastation.

Class dismissed. Test tomorrow.

Cheap political shot (Hards will be horrified) followed by a large dose of smugness. Nice post.

[Goose]

Canadian Dimes

I think Buzz even listening to SMU to be depressing. Do you really think he only listened because of it being in Texas? You can say whatever you want to make the Buzz/SMU dance into a small thing but think you are kidding yourself. By the way, what do you consider a large booster?

[GGGG]

Find out next Friday when the semester ends.....

The semester ends this Friday.  And Buzz said on the radio yesterday that they get a week off before summer session begins on May 21.  Verified here:

http://www.marquette.edu/mucentral/registrar/cal_acadcal1112ugrd.shtml#summer12

My guess is that we hear something next week when the player is home and doesn't have to deal with it while on campus.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

2002alum

Just curious on what constitutes rumor vs. info? Topper indicated he had received info from a credible source, is that written off as rumor or info? It seems that many believe that anyone that has stated "1 or 2 rumors" is blowing things out of proportion. If rumor #1 (MU would prefer Buzz go elsewhere) or rumor #2 (new academic standards for our guys) turned out to be true, does it affect the future of MU basketball?

I would say that at this point anyone who knows anybody involved in school or program have heard these rumors. Now, does it only become info if you hear it from someone you trust?

#1 We have confirmation that Buzz talked to SMU. Rumor has it that MU and Buzz might not see eye to eye on some things.

This is not unbelievable or crazy. In the history of D1 sports, I'm sure lots of AD's and Head Coaches have had issues.

Where it gets crazy is when people jump to the conclusion that MU doesn't want Buzz, or MU wants to spend less, or MU doesn't want JUCOS or Larry is a football guy, or Buzz is mad at Larry because of quotes in the paper, etc. etc.


#2 Player(s) are currently in academic "trouble". Rumor has it that MU is raising the standards.

Fine, that's definitely possible.

Here's the crazy: MU is doing it in an effort to run off a specific player, MU is trying to become Stanford, MU is trying to run Buzz out, MU wants more white guys, MU is doing it retroactively, and doesn't want the players to succeed, MU doesn't care about athletics, Larry wants to do things the "ND way", Hiroshima, etc.  

There are posters with good track records of rumors, so generally I believe those people. It's the speculation that follows that I find generally baseless and unreasonable.


Also, I'm sure this is the speech Larry gave the team about the "new" academic standards. Ed Harris is in the role of Jamil Wilson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUqo5tPZjrM&feature=related

(some swearing, so be careful at work)

[ATWizJr]

#1 We have confirmation that Buzz talked to SMU. Rumor has it that MU and Buzz might not see eye to eye on some things.

This is not unbelievable or crazy. In the history of D1 sports, I'm sure lots of AD's and Head Coaches have had issues.

Where it gets crazy is when people jump to the conclusion that MU doesn't want Buzz, or MU wants to spend less, or MU doesn't want JUCOS or Larry is a football guy, or Buzz is mad at Larry because of quotes in the paper, etc. etc.


#2 Player(s) are currently in academic "trouble". Rumor has it that MU is raising the standards.

Fine, that's definitely possible.

Here's the crazy: MU is doing it in an effort to run off a specific player, MU is trying to become Stanford, MU is trying to run Buzz out, MU wants more white guys, MU is doing it retroactively, and doesn't want the players to succeed, MU doesn't care about athletics, Larry wants to do things the "ND way", Hiroshima, etc.  

There are posters with good track records of rumors, so generally I believe those people. It's the speculation that follows that I find generally baseless and unreasonable.

OK. What conclusion would you jump to?

[jesmu84]

Besides, replacement players may be better than departing players...

Gene Hackman agrees with you...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0191397/

[Goose]

2002alum

Agreed on post. Again, for the record, I have not believed guys were being "forced" out by school. If a kid flunks out I will not blame anyone but the kid.

[Rubie Q]

OK. What conclusion would you jump to?

That's the point: why do you HAVE TO jump to a conclusion?

[GOO]

So if this situation is being referred to as Hiroshima can we start calling the Buzz to SMU situation the Battle of the Bulge?

No, the Battle of the Bulge is what I experience everyday of my life as I try to lose and keep weight off!

Plus, the Battle of the Bulge didn't have enough destruction.  If a player or two transferring is equal to a nuclear bomb or two dropped on large cities, well then, we need something bigger to describe the Buzz to SMU flurtation.

[madtownwarrior]

Great post 2002 - really sums up the craziness on this board...

I vote 2002 for "Voice of Reason" of the day...

#1 We have confirmation that Buzz talked to SMU. Rumor has it that MU and Buzz might not see eye to eye on some things.

This is not unbelievable or crazy. In the history of D1 sports, I'm sure lots of AD's and Head Coaches have had issues.

Where it gets crazy is when people jump to the conclusion that MU doesn't want Buzz, or MU wants to spend less, or MU doesn't want JUCOS or Larry is a football guy, or Buzz is mad at Larry because of quotes in the paper, etc. etc.


#2 Player(s) are currently in academic "trouble". Rumor has it that MU is raising the standards.

Fine, that's definitely possible.

Here's the crazy: MU is doing it in an effort to run off a specific player, MU is trying to become Stanford, MU is trying to run Buzz out, MU wants more white guys, MU is doing it retroactively, and doesn't want the players to succeed, MU doesn't care about athletics, Larry wants to do things the "ND way", Hiroshima, etc.  

There are posters with good track records of rumors, so generally I believe those people. It's the speculation that follows that I find generally baseless and unreasonable.


Also, I'm sure this is the speech Larry gave the team about the "new" academic standards. Ed Harris is in the role of Jamil Wilson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUqo5tPZjrM&feature=related

(some swearing, so be careful at work)

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

OK. What conclusion would you jump to?

RE Buzz and admin:
Sometimes bosses flex too much muscle, sometimes employees want too much freedom. If they want MU athletics to succeed (on and off the court), they will work it out. If Buzz doesn't like it, he'll find someplace else. I don't think that Buzz leaving is the end of MU hoops as we know it. Incredibility disappointing, but not the end of the world.

Academics:
Well, if MU is raising the standards, I think it's reasonable to assume they will give a player a chance to meet the standard. If the player(s) can't, that's a shame, and I'll hate it. BUT, I don't think this is the start of MU recruiting only white guys.

[MUMac]

That's the point: why do you HAVE TO jump to a conclusion?

You have to jump to conclusions until D-Day. 

[WellsstreetWanderer]

At least Palin's grades are published... Hiroshima is also a hell of a band

[GGGG]

That's the point: why do you HAVE TO jump to a conclusion?

Exactly.  If Buzz isn't getting along with LW or Pilarz, I have no idea if that is because either "side" is being unreasonable.  So I am not going to make assumptions in that regard.

Same with the academic standards issue.  *IF* some player is gone for academic reasons next year, we have no idea if the reason is because the standards were raised or not.  It could very well be that they may not have been eligible under the old standards.

[Lennys Tap]

#1 We have confirmation that Buzz talked to SMU. Rumor has it that MU and Buzz might not see eye to eye on some things.

This is not unbelievable or crazy. In the history of D1 sports, I'm sure lots of AD's and Head Coaches have had issues.

Where it gets crazy is when people jump to the conclusion that MU doesn't want Buzz, or MU wants to spend less, or MU doesn't want JUCOS or Larry is a football guy, or Buzz is mad at Larry because of quotes in the paper, etc. etc.

My source who told me in April 2011 that he thought Buzz would be an MU lifer said in January 2012 (8 months later) that Buzz was unhappy and he (my source)wouldn't be surprised if he was gone at the end of the season. I have no reason to doubt him, and the fact that Buzz said "don't mess with happy" and didn't want to talk to Arkansas, Oklahoma or Texas A+M in 2011 yet listened to a much lower profile SMU this year confirms that Buzz's relationship with MU has changed for the worse. Why that is I'm not sure, but I don't think it's crazy to posit that there are problems with his superiors. In fact, it's the only conclusion that seems logical.

[Lennys Tap]

#2 Player(s) are currently in academic "trouble". Rumor has it that MU is raising the standards.

Fine, that's definitely possible.

Here's the crazy: MU is doing it in an effort to run off a specific player, MU is trying to become Stanford, MU is trying to run Buzz out, MU wants more white guys, MU is doing it retroactively, and doesn't want the players to succeed, MU doesn't care about athletics, Larry wants to do things the "ND way", Hiroshima, etc.  

There are posters with good track records of rumors, so generally I believe those people. It's the speculation that follows that I find generally baseless and unreasonable.

If player(s) flunk out based on the the standards given them when they were recruited so be it. If they flunk out by new standards (especially if applied retroactively) shame on Marquette and its decision makers.
All the other stuff is noise that I think you are either exaggerating or making up. Who has actually said that MU "doesn't care about athletics" or "doesn't want (its) players to succeed. C'mon.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If player(s) flunk out based on the the standards given them when they were recruited so be it. If they flunk out by new standards (especially if applied retroactively) shame on Marquette and its decision makers.
All the other stuff is noise that I think you are either exaggerating or making up. Who has actually said that MU "doesn't care about athletics" or "doesn't want (its) players to succeed. C'mon.

The quotes aren't verbatim, of course.

But, the implication from some was that MU was far more concerned with it's academic standing and would try to reduce MU's athletic profile and spending.

You don't get to 100+ page threads with logical thinking. I assure you I haven't made this stuff up.

[ATWizJr]

My source who told me in April 2011 that he thought Buzz would be an MU lifer said in January 2012 (8 months later) that Buzz was unhappy and he (my source)wouldn't be surprised if he was gone at the end of the season. I have no reason to doubt him, and the fact that Buzz said "don't mess with happy" and didn't want to talk to Arkansas, Oklahoma or Texas A+M in 2011 yet listened to a much lower profile SMU this year confirms that Buzz's relationship with MU has changed for the worse. Why that is I'm not sure, but I don't think it's crazy to posit that there are problems with his superiors. In fact, it's the only conclusion that seems logical.

Be careful. You may be accused of jumping to conclusions as opposed to simply coming to a conclusion.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

My source who told me in April 2011 that he thought Buzz would be an MU lifer said in January 2012 (8 months later) that Buzz was unhappy and he (my source)wouldn't be surprised if he was gone at the end of the season. I have no reason to doubt him, and the fact that Buzz said "don't mess with happy" and didn't want to talk to Arkansas, Oklahoma or Texas A+M in 2011 yet listened to a much lower profile SMU this year confirms that Buzz's relationship with MU has changed for the worse. Why that is I'm not sure, but I don't think it's crazy to posit that there are problems with his superiors. In fact, it's the only conclusion that seems logical.

You might be right, I have no sources and no idea, and that's kind of my point.

A friend of a friend makes statements about Buzz's situation on the internet, and it gets whipped up into "MU doesn't want Buzz", or is trying to "Push Buzz out" and Pilarz is bad for MU, or Larry is a football guy.

We don't really know WTF is going on. I don't know why Buzz was allegedly happy before, and unhappy now.

We can use high level speculation that bosses and employees don't always get along, but we don't really have any details on the issues or friction.

I'm ok with admitting we don't really know what is going on.

[Rubie Q]

My source who told me in April 2011 that he thought Buzz would be an MU lifer said in January 2012 (8 months later) that Buzz was unhappy and he (my source)wouldn't be surprised if he was gone at the end of the season. I have no reason to doubt him, and the fact that Buzz said "don't mess with happy" and didn't want to talk to Arkansas, Oklahoma or Texas A+M in 2011 yet listened to a much lower profile SMU this year confirms that Buzz's relationship with MU has changed for the worse. Why that is I'm not sure, but I don't think it's crazy to posit that there are problems with his superiors. In fact, it's the only conclusion that seems logical.

This word "source" gets used a lot -- thanks, ESPN -- but, last I checked, it's come to mean about 36 different things. So I want to make sure I'm on the same page:

When people use the word "source" here, are they using it in the sense a journalist would, i.e., a "source" being someone who is or works for or is a relative of Buzz or Fr. Pilarz or Larry Williams, etc., or do they mean: "This is something I heard from a well-connected fan"? Because I don't think the latter really qualifies as a "source."

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

  Be careful. You may be accused of jumping to conclusions. 

You mad, bro?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

 Be careful. You may be accused of jumping to conclusions as opposed to simply coming to a conclusion.

OK, I'll answer this one too.

WARNING: FALSE CONCLUSIONS:

- MU knows some things about Buzz and wants to get him out without disclosing the real issues. Why else would a school piss off and ultimately let such a talented guy go? Maybe he's not what he says.

- The player is failing because he hasn't put in the work. Surely he's been given chances to figure it out, but hasn't.


I don't believe either of these, but I can come up with them from my keyboard and tell everybody I'm being reasonable based upon what we've heard/read.

[Lennys Tap]

RE Buzz and admin:
Sometimes bosses flex too much muscle, sometimes employees want too much freedom. If they want MU athletics to succeed (on and off the court), they will work it out. If Buzz doesn't like it, he'll find someplace else. I don't think that Buzz leaving is the end of MU hoops as we know it. Incredibility disappointing, but not the end of the world.

Academics:
Well, if MU is raising the standards, I think it's reasonable to assume they will give a player a chance to meet the standard. If the player(s) can't, that's a shame, and I'll hate it. BUT, I don't think this is the start of MU recruiting only white guys.

Of course "it's not the end of the world" if Buzz leaves. If your wife leaves and take the kids to New Mexico next week it's not the end of the world either but my guess is you're not trying to mess with happy where they're concerned. Just as it would behoove you to keep her happy, I think it's reasonable that the powers that be at MU be expected by our fanbase to keep our most visible and important asset content. If they can't they'll (deservedly) take major heat.
On your point #2, has anyone suggested (except maybe in jest) that new standards would result in "only recruiting white guys"?

[Blackhat]

[ATWizJr]

You mad, bro?

Nah.  Just stirring the pot and trying to understand what the diff is between "jumping to a conclusion" and deciding to have an opinion based on what I just read.  If there is no diff then we are all guilty any time we make a judgement based on what we read on this board or anywhere, for that matter, good or bad.  Just semantics, I guess.