Herb Kohl says it's time for a replacement for the BC

[warthog-driver]

So you are saying that more people will come to see, say, Nickelback  if it is at a new arena instead of the BC.  Otherwise, you would be assuming a new venue would hold more people (not really the issue here).  Then it would only apply to the rare event that would have sold out the BC.

I am actually not advocating building a new stadium/arena. Some people here have suggested that there will be increased traffic to Marquette games, Bucks games, and incrementally more events like Nickleback. If true then there would be an increased revenue from the increment increase from those three streams.

Personally I do not favor public finance for stadiums. But then, I hate giving money to schools since I hate the Communists at NEA.

[jsglow]

It's rumored that the buy-in fee was significantly increased by the urging of Bill Wirtz.

Bill's dead.  Rocky is a much better businessman and would actually understand the benefit derived from a new rival 90 miles north.

And I saw a reference somewhere to $150 million pricetag!!  The BC itself was $90 million in the late 1980s.  Shake hands with $350-$400 million before you make it sexy.

[warriorchick]

I am actually not advocating building a new stadium/arena. Some people here have suggested that there will be increased traffic to Marquette games, Bucks games, and incrementally more events like Nickleback. If true then there would be an increased revenue from the increment increase from those three streams.

Personally I do not favor public finance for stadiums. But then, I hate giving money to schools since I hate the Communists at NEA.

I honestly believe that a new arena won't bring in a nickel (pardon the pun) of incremental revenue other than being able to occasionally sell a few extra seats on what would otherwise be a sellout crowd, and perhaps some additional luxury box revenue  - and how much would that actually be?

The BC isn't a dump - it is just slightly outdated.  If someone is considering going to see the Bulls or the Warriors or (shudder) Nickelback, the venue is not going to be a deal breaker.  And I doubt that a new arena is going to attract a significant number of new events.  I am sure that in most cases, event promoters first decide on the cities, and then from among the available facilities.

[jsglow]

The BC isn't a dump - it is just slightly outdated.  If someone is considering going to see the Bulls or the Warriors or (shudder) Nickelback, the venue is not going to be a deal breaker.

Actually, the BULLS would be a great addition!!

[warthog-driver]

I honestly believe that a new arena won't bring in a nickel (pardon the pun) of incremental revenue other than being able to occasionally sell a few extra seats on what would otherwise be a sellout crowd, and perhaps some additional luxury box revenue  - and how much would that actually be?

The BC isn't a dump - it is just slightly outdated.  If someone is considering going to see the Bulls or the Warriors or (shudder) Nickelback, the venue is not going to be a deal breaker.  And I doubt that a new arena is going to attract a significant number of new events.  I am sure that in most cases, event promoters first decide on the cities, and then from among the available facilities.

I have seen the same thing here in Seattle. First, Seattle is dead set against a public-funded replacement for The Key so Starbucks Howard sells to the rednecks, knowing full well they are headed for No Town on the Prairie.

Was Key Arena a bad venue in which to watch a game? Hell no. Pre or post game food and drink is available in spades within walking distance of Key. Frankly, I would rather eat/drink at any of a number of Belltown/Seattle Center joints than the over priced crap you get in a stadium. Even if a famous place has an outpost at the stadium it charges 2x more than if you went to the conventional location.

Remember that David Stern was complicit in trying to extort a new venue out of Seattle. Both the Mayor (who is a Communist) and Schultz said no and the NBA moved the team to the middle of nowhere. I look forward to the day when the Sonics are not competitive in OKC and attendance plummets.

[mu-rara]

I honestly believe that a new arena won't bring in a nickel (pardon the pun) of incremental revenue other than being able to occasionally sell a few extra seats on what would otherwise be a sellout crowd, and perhaps some additional luxury box revenue  - and how much would that actually be?

Not advocating a new arena, don't really care about the Bucks. 

The name of the game is increasing the number of expensive, really expensive, seats and eliminating the cheap seats.  They may even build a smaller arena with higher revenue.

[augoman]

I can't tell you how many Bucks games I went to this year that had horrible attendance.  The only games approaching a sell-out were the Lakers, the Heat, and the Bulls.  And at the Bulls game the vast majority of fans had Bulls colors/jerseys on.  A new stadium would only draw until the novelty wore off, then it's up to the Bucks.  As it is, good seats cost $158.00 per and it's awfully hard to justify the expense in spite of the half-time tumbling and the Energee dancers.  I know the same seat is double or close in Chicago, but they are drawing crowds and supply and demand comes into play.  Milwaukee is drawing flys and playing to half empty houses..., pretty hard to raise prices or count on selling more 'premium seating'.

[warriorchick]

Not advocating a new arena, don't really care about the Bucks. 

The name of the game is increasing the number of expensive, really expensive, seats and eliminating the cheap seats.  They may even build a smaller arena with higher revenue.

Excellent business model for Milwaukee...pay even more to see the same crappy NBA team.

[Blackhat]

I care about the bucks because it is in MU's best interest to play in a glitz arena with NBA on the backboard.  When the bucks had a competent front office and were spending moola the bc had good attendance.

[jficke13]

the bucks do spend, they just spend poorly.

[warriorchick]

It occurred to me that there may be one of two things going on here that haven't really been discussed:

1.  All of this whining by Herb may simply be an attempt to distract attention from the real reason the team isn't drawing, which is that the team sucks, mainly because of bad decisions by the management.  Remember awhile back when the Packers were tanking, and there were those that were saying it was because that African American players didn't want to live in Green Bay?  Heck, there wasn't even a place up there to get their hair cut.  That issue magically disappeared once the Packers started winning again.  If the Bucks were  good and the BC was filling up, I don't think you'd be hearing a peep out of Herb.

2.  It could very well be that Herb really doesn't care that much about keeping the Bucks in Milwaukee, and he knows that Milwaukeeans would never give him a new arena.  However, if he goes through the motions of asking for one, then he can use it as the reason the team had to leave town.

[MU82]

If they received some cash, the United Center may have been in a much better location instead of the craphole it sits now.

Ummm ... they did receive cash, and lots of it, from their private investors. And the location of the United Center, right across the street from the old Stadium, doesn't keep fans away. The Bulls kept drawing even when they were the jokes of the league after Jordan left. The Blackhawks draw big whenever they have a reasonably representative team.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

Near South Side.

I don't think we need another stadium by the Field Museum.

Longtime Blackhawk season ticket holders were already cheesed that their seats were moved to make way for corporate boxes when the team changed from the Stadium to the UC; moving three miles away into heavy traffic wouldn't make them feel any better.

[🏀]

Ummm ... they did receive cash, and lots of it, from their private investors. And the location of the United Center, right across the street from the old Stadium, doesn't keep fans away. The Bulls kept drawing even when they were the jokes of the league after Jordan left. The Blackhawks draw big whenever they have a reasonably representative team.

Regardless, Reinsdorf and Wirtz discussed public finance and didn't like the strings attached to it. The location was dirt cheap, but still in an incredibly bad neighborhood disconnected from public transportation and arterial access. No stadium built after 1980 has worse accces than the UC.

As promised, no improvements have been made to gain access to the UC. Always talks of extending the Pink Line, that will never happen.

I don't think we need another stadium by the Field Museum.

There is how many now? Good thing Chicago got passed on the Olympics then.

[sfmu22]

KC, Nashville and Vegas are all larger and more prosperous than MKE.  Very few (if any) cities the size of Milwaukee have 3 major pro sports teams.  (Yes, I'm including the Packers.)  Nashville didn't have any until about 10-15 years ago.  Louisville probably isn't a viable option but Cincinnati might me.  I'm sure there are others as well.

Oakland is way smaller than Milwaukee and actually has 3 teams inside the city limits.  Also the Oracle dude wants to buy a team and move them to San Jose so people shouldn't discount San Jose as a viable city for a Bucks move.  The money and fans will be there if they already stole the Niner's.  At least the (golden state) warriors will end up bouncing back to the city soon.

[Hards Alumni]

It occurred to me that there may be one of two things going on here that haven't really been discussed:

1.  All of this whining by Herb may simply be an attempt to distract attention from the real reason the team isn't drawing, which is that the team sucks, mainly because of bad decisions by the management.  Remember awhile back when the Packers were tanking, and there were those that were saying it was because that African American players didn't want to live in Green Bay?  Heck, there wasn't even a place up there to get their hair cut.  That issue magically disappeared once the Packers started winning again.  If the Bucks were  good and the BC was filling up, I don't think you'd be hearing a peep out of Herb.

2.  It could very well be that Herb really doesn't care that much about keeping the Bucks in Milwaukee, and he knows that Milwaukeeans would never give him a new arena.  However, if he goes through the motions of asking for one, then he can use it as the reason the team had to leave town.

1.  The idea that no one goes to see if the Bucks because they are bad holds a lot of water.  But even if they started selling out games, they wouldn't be making the money they could be making if they had a better arena.  People here seem to assume that the only way that pro teams make money is through ticket sales.  I'd argue that if the Bucks were doing really well, Herb would be on his knees begging the city to build a new arena.

2.  Herb does care about keeping the team in Milwaukee and has said as much for a long time.  He has no plans to sell the team to anyone who plans to take the team out of Wisconsin.  I think some people forget how hugely popular the man is and his ties to the state.

I have seen the same thing here in Seattle. First, Seattle is dead set against a public-funded replacement for The Key so Starbucks Howard sells to the rednecks, knowing full well they are headed for No Town on the Prairie.

Was Key Arena a bad venue in which to watch a game? Hell no. Pre or post game food and drink is available in spades within walking distance of Key. Frankly, I would rather eat/drink at any of a number of Belltown/Seattle Center joints than the over priced crap you get in a stadium. Even if a famous place has an outpost at the stadium it charges 2x more than if you went to the conventional location.

Remember that David Stern was complicit in trying to extort a new venue out of Seattle. Both the Mayor (who is a Communist) and Schultz said no and the NBA moved the team to the middle of nowhere. I look forward to the day when the Sonics are not competitive in OKC and attendance plummets.

The OKC Thunder will always have good attendance because it is the only show in town.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

1.  The idea that no one goes to see if the Bucks because they are bad holds a lot of water.  But even if they started selling out games, they wouldn't be making the money they could be making if they had a better arena.  People here seem to assume that the only way that pro teams make money is through ticket sales.  I'd argue that if the Bucks were doing really well, Herb would be on his knees begging the city to build a new arena.

This is the inherent problem with pro sports, isn't it? Even if they sell-put their product, they can't make money?

[GGGG]

Oakland is way smaller than Milwaukee and actually has 3 teams inside the city limits.  Also the Oracle dude wants to buy a team and move them to San Jose so people shouldn't discount San Jose as a viable city for a Bucks move.  The money and fans will be there if they already stole the Niner's.  At least the (golden state) warriors will end up bouncing back to the city soon.

Oakland also sits in one of the largest metropolitan areas in the country.

[Hards Alumni]

This is the inherent problem with pro sports, isn't it? Even if they sell-put their product, they can't make money?

I'm not sure what you mean.  Plenty of owners make a lot of money from their teams.  Not all do.  While a lot of you seem to want the free market take care of whether or not teams should be in one town or another, I do not.  I like teams to stay where they are out of tradition, rivalry, an self interest.

That said, if an NHL team from the South would move up to Milwaukee, I would be ecstatic.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'm not sure what you mean.  Plenty of owners make a lot of money from their teams.  Not all do.  While a lot of you seem to want the free market take care of whether or not teams should be in one town or another, I do not.  I like teams to stay where they are out of tradition, rivalry, an self interest.

That said, if an NHL team from the South would move up to Milwaukee, I would be ecstatic.

I would like teams to stay where they are too, but I don't think I should have to fund it.

Fans think its a no-brainer, and I understand that. The economist in me outweighs the fan in me.

[reinko]

I would like teams to stay where they are too, but I don't think I should have to fund it.

Fans think its a no-brainer, and I understand that. The economist in me outweighs the fan in me.

I made this point earlier in this thread, but for many folks, 10 cents for every $100 you spend is worth it to me.

[MUfan12]

2.  Herb does care about keeping the team in Milwaukee and has said as much for a long time.  He has no plans to sell the team to anyone who plans to take the team out of Wisconsin.  I think some people forget how hugely popular the man is and his ties to the state.

Enough political talk!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I made this point earlier in this thread, but for many folks, 10 cents for every $100 you spend is worth it.

You're right, and I understand that but there are some problems for me:

#1 As it stands, most municipalities (city, state, fed.) are already overspending. I don't like tacking on more spending, even if it is generally seen as inconsequential. Instead of having politicians working out stadium deals, tell them to get to work on creating more efficient programs and policies that will actually help people.

#2 If it's only 10cents on a $100, and if there are a lot of people that want a new arena, then hold a fundraiser like PBS and have people call in pledges. If the big fans donated $100, surely that would make up for somebody like me that doesn't really want to pay for it.

#3 I realize #2 probably wouldn't work, and that's exactly my point.

#4 Cities/states fund plenty of buildings and items that don't make money (museums, historical society, libraries, etc.). However, those generally aren't private entities with poor business models that have $300 dollar buildings constructed for them.

[augoman]

personal opinion; a great deal of Herbie's popularity is due to buying the Bucks to 'keep them in Milwaukee'.  His burning desire to own a sports team may stem from his association with Bud Selig (college roomates) and Bud's former ownership of the Brewers.  He has proven himself inept, as has Bucks hierarchy at talent selection/team building/management.  A change of ownership might be the best thing for the Bucks-could result in better teams, crowds, revenues, etc all at the BC.

[Hoopaloop]

Well-stated. Honestly, I'd pay a dollar for every hundred I spend and be fine with that. Of course, most likely not every SEW citizen is as dedicated to Marquette having a state of the art arena as I am.

Many people who don't care about sports have a tough time believing $500 million spent on a new arena is money well spent for a business that has millionaires already.  Then you add in that the current building is in very good shape, MPS in shambles and all sorts of other problems, it becomes a matter of priorities.

That is the other argument.