Rumor: Big XII waiting on Clemson and Florida St

[MUMac]

Yeah, it's hard for me to think of a "national power" that has suddenly become irrelevant in the last 30 years.  Perhaps the closest I can come up with is Indiana?  Or UNLV?   But both of those programs are far from being irrelevant. 

Irrelevant may not have been the best choice of words to use.  Most programs are one coaching change away from a drop to mediocrity or rise to national power status.  UNC dropped after Dean left and it took Roy coming home to return them to the national power.  Go back to MU.  While a downward trend had begun, Dukiet dropped MU  into the bowels of the NCAA.  KO brought a return.

The next coach at UConn will be an important hire, no doubt, but the most important is for whoever is the AD to recognize quickly if the program is receding and replace the man at the top as quickly as they can.  You could argue, to a lesser degree, this is what Cords did when he fired Deane.  

[TJ]

This conference realignment has really lost the plot if this happens.

South Carolina, which has one of the lowest levels of disposable incomes in the country, will be playing most of their games in the plain states.  Too bad for Clemson fans who can enjoy driving to away games now.

I understand it is about football dollars but the complete lack of caring for the fans who ultimately are the ones contributing the football dollars blows me away.  There will be repercussions.  Maybe not right away but this will come back to haunt some schools.

This move is what brought you to this conclusion?  The lack of caring for fans has been around for forever.  All of the realignment, even going back to Miami, BC, and VT leaving the Big East has stunk of chasing the money and not caring about the fans one bit.  Texas A&M and Missouri's decisions should have tipped you off at least.

[TJ]

Honestly, I think college football is getting like the housing bubble. Everybody is making a mad dash because they want the $, and nobody thinks the flow of $ from television will ever stop.

Well, at some point, the $ is going to level off and travel expenses for every sport are going to continue to climb. (example: now your swim team expenses are through the roof because they have to fly everywhere).

It's the law of unintended consequences.

Some of these realignments aren't going to work out.

+1

[GGGG]

This move is what brought you to this conclusion?  The lack of caring for fans has been around for forever.  All of the realignment, even going back to Miami, BC, and VT leaving the Big East has stunk of chasing the money and not caring about the fans one bit.  Texas A&M and Missouri's decisions should have tipped you off at least.

I don't necessarily agree with that.

Texas Aggies that I know were all for the move to the SEC - they got tired of dealing with UT.  Ditto Va Tech to the ACC....Nebraska to the B10, realizing that the ole B8 days are gone...and   Colorado to the Pac 12.

That being said, WVU fans aren't real excited about the B12 (rather be in the ACC), but realize that it is a better choice than being in the BE.  Ditto Mizzou, who would have preferred a B10 invite.

[tower912]

Yeah, it's hard for me to think of a "national power" that has suddenly become irrelevant in the last 30 years.  Perhaps the closest I can come up with is Indiana?  Or UNLV?   But both of those programs are far from being irrelevant. 

UCLA.

[TJ]

I don't necessarily agree with that.

Texas Aggies that I know were all for the move to the SEC - they got tired of dealing with UT.  Ditto Va Tech to the ACC....Nebraska to the B10, realizing that the ole B8 days are gone...and   Colorado to the Pac 12.

That being said, WVU fans aren't real excited about the B12 (rather be in the ACC), but realize that it is a better choice than being in the BE.  Ditto Mizzou, who would have preferred a B10 invite.

You may be right.  But I would argue that none of these decisions has been motivated by any concern for fan reaction.  Even if they didn't garner that bad a reaction, I bet it was barely mentioned in the decision making process and only after did they ask themselves "how can we sell this?"

On a related topic, watching the Kansas-Mizzou game last weekend it was funny listening to the two hour long guilt trip the ESPN guys were putting on Kansas to continue the series with Mizzou.  If I were Bill Self it would have to be a really good deal for me to schedule that game.  Nothing but downside there.  If Mizzou wanted to play KU so badly they could have stayed in the same conference.

[Dawson Rental]

Irrelevant may not have been the best choice of words to use.  Most programs are one coaching change away from a drop to mediocrity or rise to national power status.  UNC dropped after Dean left and it took Roy coming home to return them to the national power.  Go back to MU.  While a downward trend had begun, Dukiet dropped MU  into the bowels of the NCAA.  KO brought a return.

The next coach at UConn will be an important hire, no doubt, but the most important is for whoever is the AD to recognize quickly if the program is receding and replace the man at the top as quickly as they can.  You could argue, to a lesser degree, this is what Cords did when he fired Deane.  

1.  "Dukiet dropped MU  into the bowels of the NCAA"  Beautifully put, I wish I'd said it.

2.  "this is what Cords did when he fired Deane."  Deane was an awesome game coach, he had to be because he couldn't recruit talent.  I wonder if Cords would have made the decision if he knew at the time it would cost MU the great Krunti Hester?

[Dawson Rental]

You may be right.  But I would argue that none of these decisions has been motivated by any concern for fan reaction.  Even if they didn't garner that bad a reaction, I bet it was barely mentioned in the decision making process and only after did they ask themselves "how can we sell this?"

On a related topic, watching the Kansas-Mizzou game last weekend it was funny listening to the two hour long guilt trip the ESPN guys were putting on Kansas to continue the series with Mizzou.  If I were Bill Self it would have to be a really good deal for me to schedule that game.  Nothing but downside there.  If Mizzou wanted to play KU so badly they could have stayed in the same conference.

If you look at what Mizzou is losing this year, I think Self was very smart.  He picked up a few years of guaranteed wins.

[TJ]

If you look at what Mizzou is losing this year, I think Self was very smart.  He picked up a few years of guaranteed wins.

I can't find anything - did they sign something?  As far as I know the next game between KU and Mizzou is the last unless they meet in the Big 12 Tournament.

[Dawson Rental]

I can't find anything - did they sign something?  As far as I know the next game between KU and Mizzou is the last unless they meet in the Big 12 Tournament.

I thought you were saying that KU had picked up the Mizzou series.  I see now that you meant that the announcers were pulling for KU to do it.  Not playing KU won't help with the big job Mizzou will have replacing the talent on this year's team.

[Bieberhole69]

UCLA.

Man if UCLA is irrelevant I don't want to know what that makes Marquette.

[muwarrior69]

The ACC is not a football conference, but a basketball conference. The ACC started all of this to destroy the Big East.  I still believe it's all about basketball and not football. As long as we can keep Buzz, our program will be above average and more than just relevant no matter where we wind up. As long as we can qualify for the tournament we will have our shot to be National Champion. Its the coach that attracts the best players. It it were the program then UCLA and Indiana would always be in the NCAAs regardless of the Coach. Even UNC had a few tough years after Dean retired. My point is if the administration wants us to compete at the National level, and I believe they do, MU will be recognized as a top D1 basketball school.

[tower912]

Man if UCLA is irrelevant I don't want to know what that makes Marquette.

Going to the dance for the 7th straight year.   Not having a massive alumni revolt toward our coach.   Getting seen in prime time constantly.   Not part of a 1 bid conference.    Not having talking heads use us a cautionary tale about how quickly things can go astray.    That is what it makes MU.   

[MUMac]

On a related topic, watching the Kansas-Mizzou game last weekend it was funny listening to the two hour long guilt trip the ESPN guys were putting on Kansas to continue the series with Mizzou.  If I were Bill Self it would have to be a really good deal for me to schedule that game.  Nothing but downside there.  If Mizzou wanted to play KU so badly they could have stayed in the same conference.

The President of KU has said that KU will not play Mizzou in any sport.  I believe that is limited to regular season.  It will be interesting, though, if they tow the line for sports with invitationals or multiple team participation (eg, track, cross country, golf, tennis, swimming and rowing) or in-season tournaments (specifically basketball)?  I think the latter would be easier to enforce internally, the former may be more difficult.

[Bieberhole69]

Going to the dance for the 7th straight year.   Not having a massive alumni revolt toward our coach.   Getting seen in prime time constantly.   Not part of a 1 bid conference.    Not having talking heads use us a cautionary tale about how quickly things can go astray.    That is what it makes MU.  

That's all nice and I like where MU stands, but i think i'd take the three consecutive Final Fours from 06-08

[Dawson Rental]

The ACC is not a football conference, but a basketball conference. The ACC started all of this to destroy the Big East.  I still believe it's all about basketball and not football. As long as we can keep Buzz, our program will be above average and more than just relevant no matter where we wind up. As long as we can qualify for the tournament we will have our shot to be National Champion. Its the coach that attracts the best players. It it were the program then UCLA and Indiana would always be in the NCAAs regardless of the Coach. Even UNC had a few tough years after Dean retired. My point is if the administration wants us to compete at the National level, and I believe they do, MU will be recognized as a top D1 basketball school.

In a world where money didn't matter, this could be true.

If the Big 12 pulls off bringing in Florida State and Clemson, then the big winner will be Texas for proving that you can be greedy, refuse to share and still have your major conference affiliation, too.

[CTWarrior]

I think you are correct, but no one really knows what a conference change will do for a program. Look what the Big East did for Marquette. Houston has been a basketball and football power in the past, will the change to the big east help them regain that? Some teams will get better some will get worse.

Well, the closest team to UConn that moved from the Big East to the ACC was Boston College.  How's that working out?  They were a solid program nationally in both basketball and football while in the Big East.  Their football has gone steadily downhill and their basketball program is now wretched, one of the handful of worst in power conferences.  But at least their women's cross country team gets to fly to North Carolina a lot.  In their continued stupidity, they are desperately trying to keep UConn out of the Big East in a misguided attempt to keep the ACC in New England to themselves (not that anyone notices or cares).  One would think the idea of having an actual rival in the conference would appeal to them.

[GGGG]

The ACC is not a football conference, but a basketball conference. The ACC started all of this to destroy the Big East.  I still believe it's all about basketball and not football.

Which could be why Clemson and FSU would be the ones looking elsewhere....two of the ACC schools that care much more about football than bball.

[LAZER]

Which could be why Clemson and FSU would be the ones looking elsewhere....two of the ACC schools that care much more about football than bball.

From a football perspective, it seemed like Rutgers was a better choice than Syracuse too.

[muwarrior69]

In a world where money didn't matter, this could be true.

If the Big 12 pulls off bringing in Florida State and Clemson, then the big winner will be Texas for proving that you can be greedy, refuse to share and still have your major conference affiliation, too.

I don't think the ACC really cares if those schools bolt. They would get 50 million in exit fees and probably ask Rutgers, UConn or WVU (Big XII would rather have the football schools and let WVU go to the ACC IMHO). For the ACC its all about basketball and killing the Beast, don't kid yourself.

[bilsu]

Yeah, it's hard for me to think of a "national power" that has suddenly become irrelevant in the last 30 years.  Perhaps the closest I can come up with is Indiana?  Or UNLV?   But both of those programs are far from being irrelevant. 

UCLA is pretty irelevant right now. How about NC St. ?

[GGGG]

NC State is a good choice and I had thought of them.  UCLA just went to three final fours in three straight years though...06-08.

[79Warrior]

That's all nice and I like where MU stands, but i think i'd take the three consecutive Final Fours from 06-08

Please, don't confuse him with facts.

[tower912]

How soon I forgot.