Fight at the end of Xavier-Cinci game

[Silkk the Shaka]

In my opinion this is worse than Tu Holloway talking trash in a game he is winning and instigating a fight. Chill out with the racial references, MU nation. It doesn't look good.

Exactly my point.  Terrible post from Tatum.

[godzilla]

No, I'm questioning where this guy is coming from with the statement "I'M SICK OF WATCHING THESE TRASH TALKING MOSTLY INNER CITY BASKETBALL THUGS WHO THINK THEY ARE SO COOL. THEY ARE PUNKS."  A fight once every three to five years in basketball gets overblown and everyone calls them thugs.  Hockey breaks out into fights every other game and people just say it's "boys being boys in the heat of battle."  I just love the double standard. 

It sucks that this happened, and I watched the whole thing unfold live.  Gates deserves to be kicked off the teams and several people deserve to be suspended.  Just wondering where the sweeping, ignorant statement "I'M SICK OF WATCHING THESE TRASH TALKING MOSTLY INNER CITY BASKETBALL THUGS WHO THINK THEY ARE SO COOL. THEY ARE PUNKS" comes from.

I think the "thugs" comment comes from the press conference as much as the fight itself.  When players call themselves "gangsters," it's pretty easy to assume that they are, indeed, thugs.

[MUMac]

I think the "thugs" comment comes from the press conference as much as the fight itself.  When players call themselves "gangsters," it's pretty easy to assume that they are, indeed, thugs.

I agree about the thugs and read it that way intially.  The inner city comment is worthy of the derision, as Jamailman pointed out.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

I think the "thugs" comment comes from the press conference as much as the fight itself.  When players call themselves "gangsters," it's pretty easy to assume that they are, indeed, thugs.

It's a ridiculous argument to tie this thing to "urban culture" (which is what I'm picking up from your post). The problem is they fought. Period.

How many black players in NCAA basketball haven't behaved like this? Even these players have only acted this way in one game. The suspensions and reactions should be based on this event.

Using this to attack a culture you don't identify with and broad brush people based on where they are from & what their experiences are (inner city) makes me really hope you aren't an MU alum. I would sleep better at night having one of our players act like Tu did today than know that my fellow alums can't draw a distinction like this.

[godzilla]

It's a ridiculous argument to tie this thing to "urban culture" (which is what I'm picking up from your post). The problem is they fought. Period.

How many black players in NCAA basketball haven't behaved like this? Even these players have only acted this way in one game. The suspensions and reactions should be based on this event.

Using this to attack a culture you don't identify with and broad brush people based on where they are from & what their experiences are (inner city) makes me really hope you aren't an MU alum. I would sleep better at night having one of our players act like Tu did today than know that my fellow alums can't draw a distinction like this.

Did you watch the Xavier players press conference.  Tu referred to the team as "gangsters."  They are embracing that culture (regardless of where they're from) and it's too bad if you don't want them called out for it. 

And i could care less if they're from the inner city or not.  They were verbally championing the "thug culture" in their statements.  And it was shameful for the Xavier coach to try and brush off their remarks. 

[GGGG]

Yeah and my kids flash fake gang signs as jokes.  I suppose they are embracing the "thug culture" as well.  Give it a rest. 

[MUMac]

Yeah and my kids flash fake gang signs as jokes.  I suppose they are embracing the "thug culture" as well.  Give it a rest. 

Tu is the one who used "thug" in his PC.  He said that X were gangsters and Cincy were thugs.  Calling someone out for using that is silly.  I do, though, agree with the criticism of the "inner city" reference. 

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Did you watch the Xavier players press conference.  Tu referred to the team as "gangsters."  They are embracing that culture (regardless of where they're from) and it's too bad if you don't want them called out for it. 

And i could care less if they're from the inner city or not.  They were verbally championing the "thug culture" in their statements.  And it was shameful for the Xavier coach to try and brush off their remarks. 

Just be straight with yourself. The fighting is uncalled for. Not using slang terms.

You make this argument and support the Warriors nickname?

[GGGG]

Just because he says something in a presser after a heated game doesn't mean he "embraces" the culture.  It could very well mean he simply said something stupid.

[godzilla]

This was taken from the Scout board...

"From Cincinnati Enquirer:

"We're grown men over here," Holloway explained. "We got a whole bunch of gangsters in the locker room. Not thugs, but tough guys on the court."

Holloway readily admitted to taunting the UC bench, coaches and players, as the clock wound down. "I talked to that whole staff. I said this is my city. I'm cut from a different cloth. None of them guys on their team is like me. I let the whole staff know none of them was like me," he said.

If you watch Holloway play, that's evident. No one is like him. He is often the best player on the floor. He doesn't need to prove a thing. "Isn't the play enough?" I asked Holloway, in a hallway near the Xavier locker room, after the press conference.

"That's what the Crosstown Shootout is about," he said. "Guys getting ejected, guys throwing elbows."

I thought it was about a basketball game.

"You don't let people disrespect you. That's what I'm about. I don't regret anything that happened," said Holloway"

Yeah, this is just like kids flashing gang signs as jokes...

[GGGG]

You know, I wonder how people on this board ever graduated from MU with the crappy reading comprehension they have. 

I didn't say Tu didn't say a dumb thing.  I didn't say he didn't do a dumb thing.  What I am saying is that these comments to me don't show that he embraces the "thug culture."  If you could show me something else from his past that indicates a pattern of behavior, then I would be more likely to agree with you.  Otherwise it sounds more like a guy who shot off his mouth at a press conference.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

You know, I wonder how people on this board ever graduated from MU with the crappy reading comprehension they have. 

I didn't say Tu didn't say a dumb thing.  I didn't say he didn't do a dumb thing.  What I am saying is that these comments to me don't show that he embraces the "thug culture."  If you could show me something else from his past that indicates a pattern of behavior, then I would be more likely to agree with you.  Otherwise it sounds more like a guy who shot off his mouth at a press conference.

+1

[godzilla]

Good column from Bobby Lewis...

http://www.newson6.com/story/16298944/gangsters-vs-thugs

Gangsters vs. Thugs


Posted: Dec 10, 2011 9:17 PM CST
Updated: Dec 10, 2011 9:18 PM CST
Bobby Lewis, News On 6 - bio | email


ORU plays Xavier in a few days and the Golden Eagles had better take their boxing gloves to the game! Those dudes threw down with Cincinnati today.
I'm sure you've seen it. If not, here it is.

Worst part of it, is what a SENIOR leader said for Xavier.

TU Holloway: "We're grown men out there ... We've got a whole bunch of gangsters in that locker room. Not thugs, but tough guys out on the court."

Really? Tough guys? You have NO IDEA what tough is.

Here's what you did, TU. You brought embarrassment to yourself, your family, your school, your team and the sport of basketball. You and your 'gangster' teammates acted like a bunch of hoodlums. You may not like to call yourselves thugs, but that's EXACTLY what you are. Oh, and since when is being labeled as a gangster better than being called a thug?

What you guys are is a joke. When is it ever appropriate to do what you did? The answer is never. If you did that ANYWHERE else besides a basketball court (or other sports forum), you would be THROWN IN JAIL... kind of like a gangster or thug would be.

You and a few other bully teammates defended your actions, saying things like 'we won't let anyone punch us and not punch back'. HELLO! YOU instigated the entire thing. You're up 20+ points with NINE SECONDS LEFT... AT HOME!!! What are you doing getting up in the opponent's face, taunting him and staring down the Cincy bench? Did you WANT to fight?

What justifies this? Because you're ranked #8 in the nation? Because you're playing in a rivalry game?

Wake up, gangster.

Cincy isn't blameless in this. The Bearcats are subject to the same ridicule. The difference is, Holloway ran his mouth. Show some class, gangster.

If you wanted to get suspended, mission accomplished. You may be gone for weeks. If I was the coach, I'd kick your ungrateful, selfish, arrogant gangster butt off my team in a heartbeat.

Give me your jersey. Turn in your jock. Get out of my locker room.

We don't need gangsters like you in any arena.

[MUMac]

You know, I wonder how people on this board ever graduated from MU with the crappy reading comprehension they have. 

I didn't say Tu didn't say a dumb thing.  I didn't say he didn't do a dumb thing.  What I am saying is that these comments to me don't show that he embraces the "thug culture."  If you could show me something else from his past that indicates a pattern of behavior, then I would be more likely to agree with you.  Otherwise it sounds more like a guy who shot off his mouth at a press conference.

Taking pomposity out of it, if you actually read and comprehended the original comment - which is where the "thugs" commentary started in this thread, he never mentioned Tu.  Never mentioned Xavier.  Solely about Cincinnati.  All about Cincinnati's "thugs".  Probably more playing on the "thuggins" wordsmith of the past.  Maybe it came to the posters mind or became more acceptable, due to the use of the word by Tu. The inclusion of "inner city", IMHO, should not have been made.

Back to reading comprehension now, so I can try make the some MU grads proud of me.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Claiming this incident didn't have racial undertones is PC rum amok. Not only do you have an X player talking about "gangstas" you have one of the few white players in the incident leaving the floor covered in blood. You can pretend it's just kids being kids, but these are grown men. If the racial make up of these individuals were reversed, we'd have a national day of reflection for chrissakes. This was an ugly, ugly incident that reflects very poorly on African American players on both sides. To suggest otherwise is just plain stupid.

[StillWarriors]

Wow. Agreed. That was extremely genuine.

Cronin's press conference was pretty good. Now, I'll be interested to see if he walks the walk. I don't see any way he can let Gates put on a uniform again this year, if ever. He should come out today and say Gates is done.

[reinko]

X press conference on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gpS7PSYWcM

[Golden Avalanche]

You know, I wonder how people on this board ever graduated from MU with the crappy reading comprehension they have. 

I didn't say Tu didn't say a dumb thing.  I didn't say he didn't do a dumb thing.  What I am saying is that these comments to me don't show that he embraces the "thug culture."  If you could show me something else from his past that indicates a pattern of behavior, then I would be more likely to agree with you.  Otherwise it sounds more like a guy who shot off his mouth at a press conference.

On the topic of "thug culture" and embracing it, the key question for anyone is to learn a bit about where Mark Lyons was born and raised.

During his post game comments he made clear that "where I'm from" when "people raise their hands" you don't let them get away with it. In essence, when the fight is brought to you then you fight back.

Lyons was born in Schenectady, NY (which is outside Albany, NY). He was raised at Brewster Acadamy in New Hampshire (which is outside the middle of nowhere).

Draw your own conclusions.

[tower912]

The X  AD should be fired for letting those guys get near a mic that soon after that intense of a situation.    They were fools for talking like that, but they never should have been given the chance. 

[Hoopaloop]

I didn't know much about Cronin, but that speech/comments were awesome and Buzz-like.  Well worth the 16 minutes.

Yates has had previous issues throughout his tenure, has been suspended before and based upon what Cronin said, I presume Yates just played his last game for Cincy.  

My thoughts as well.  Impressed by Cronin's post game statements.  That was an example, at least at that moment, of someone taking responsibility for his program.  He may not be like that other times, but that particular press conference was impressive.  Both programs clearly have some players with some issues.  Maybe this rivalry needs to be suspended for a few years.  This is not the first brawl in the series of late.

[GGGG]

Maybe this rivalry needs to be suspended for a few years. 

My thoughts exactly.  Four years.  Gets all the current players out of their respective programs.

[Marqus Howard]

Cincinnati just announced that Gates, Ellis and Mbodj will be suspended for 6 games, and Guyn will be suspended for one.

Xavier hasn't announced anything yet.

Pretty weak, IMO.

[mu_hilltopper]

The X  AD should be fired for letting those guys get near a mic that soon after that intense of a situation.    They were fools for talking like that, but they never should have been given the chance.  

Wow, co-sign.  One thing to let them go up there, another leap of stupidity to not jump in and stop that train-wreck from pegging the embarrass-o-meter within 20 seconds.  

That presser should be shown at AD School, "What not to let your kids say in front of a mic 101"

[spartan3186]

Cincinnati just announced that Gates, Ellis and Mbodj will be suspended for 6 games, and Guyn will be suspended for one.

Xavier hasn't announced anything yet.

Pretty weak, IMO.

I would agree that is pretty weak. They are missing Wright St, Radford, Arkansas Pine-Bluff, Chicago St, Oklahoma and Pitt. Although when you consider that 6 games is 20% of the season it doesn't seem as bad.

[Marqus Howard]

I would agree that is pretty weak. They are missing Wright St, Radford, Arkansas Pine-Bluff, Chicago St, Oklahoma and Pitt. Although when you consider that 6 games is 20% of the season it doesn't seem as bad.

Lagarrette Blount was suspended for the season for this: (Obviously different sport, but a close comparison to a fight in recent years)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_3299v-A1o

I'm not sure how Gates and Mbodj deserved less of a penalty than Blount did.