Koenig and Tokoto's UNC Visit

[79Warrior]

Why is it that everybody coceded Carolina for these ywo? Why cabn't we land them? Why is this a forgone conclusion? What about Buzz's prowess as a recruiter?

Ever been to UNC? Nuff said.

[texaswarrior74]

Ever been to UNC? Nuff said.

+1000

[Jacks DC]

At an elite program like say North Carolina or Kansas though, he'd not only be just one of other upper tier recruits on the roster, he won't have tons of their fans expecting him to be fabulous the minute he steps on the court. With as much strength as he needs to put on and a skillset that does need refining, not having to be "the man" on campus could save J.P. some angst is his development isn't immediate.

I can't argue with anyone choosing UNC over Marquette, but I kind of doubt they would choose UNC simply because they would rather be lower on the depth chart.  If you were a top recruit, wouldn't you rather have a better chance of getting on the court?  UNC might have more overall exposure than MU, but in terms of getting more exposure for individual players that are not top 25 recruits, MU is probably better.

[Jacks DC]

Sooo, never. MU will never be UNC. Best MU can do is be a consistent winner in the BEast (expectations for the program to always be in the top echelon of the conference). If they do that, we'll always have a shot of landing a few top players, but we'll never have the name/brand of UNC. No harm in that, just won't ever happen. It's like college football. The big names will always be the big names. Flashes in the pan may come along, but there's usually an 'order' to things.

And I hate to be a pessimist, but if I had to bet on it right now I would say there's a better chance of MU slipping into the bottom half of the Big East than moving into the top 3-4.  Marquette simply doesn't recruit on the level of at least 5-6 teams in the conference and St. John's, Rutgers, Seton Hall and Cincy are getting better.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I can't argue with anyone choosing UNC over Marquette, but I kind of doubt they would choose UNC simply because they would rather be lower on the depth chart.  If you were a top recruit, wouldn't you rather have a better chance of getting on the court?  UNC might have more overall exposure than MU, but in terms of getting more exposure for individual players that are not top 25 recruits, MU is probably better.

Maybe he wants to win a national title.  That isn't happening at MU.

[GGGG]

Correct. A national championship isn't likely but progress over time can be made. The goal is that in a decade MU can be in the running for players like this.

[Jacks DC]

Correct. A national championship isn't likely but progress over time can be made. The goal is that in a decade MU can be in the running for players like this.

A decade?  Thought we were "in the running" for them now?

[GGGG]

Doesn't  look like we are.

[Tugg Speedman]

What about UW in the last few years?  Look at the players coming out or Wisc. HS (not what they did afterwards).  UW is not getting the best in the state anymore.

They did not get JMay (and they would have taken him in a heart beat!), VB, Wilson and apparently Tokoto and Koenig.  

At least we are getting a fair share of the state's top players, they have been getting much less since Buzz arrived on the scene.

So, what's wrong with Madison?  Why are the best going there?

[Golden Avalanche]

A decade?  Thought we were "in the running" for them now?

Everyone was excited MU was just a step slow catching their top five prospects last summer. It meant that Buzz was getting closer and closer to landing that elite level of talent, and with the talent on roster, it was only a matter of time until it happened.

Life doesn't always go according to plan.

[butchbadger]

Couple things.
That is JP's step dad, not biological father although he has rasied him.


Jmay was not wanted at all by UW (or MU under Crean). Too much baggage for a run of the mill player.  Very little interest in Wilson after his soph year and obviously lots of interest in VB.

News from UNC is that both these guys are locks for the Heels. This state does not product enough players of that skill level for MU or UW  miss out on them but when the big boys come calling there isn't a lot you can do.  The only way MU or UW will ever compte for a title is if they land some rare 4-5 star local talents. Just too difficult to pull kids from far away consistently. There are great schools everywhere.

[Tugg Speedman]

News from UNC is that both these guys are locks for the Heels. This state does not product enough players of that skill level for MU or UW  miss out on them but when the big boys come calling there isn't a lot you can do.  The only way MU or UW will ever compte for a title is if they land some rare 4-5 star local talents. Just too difficult to pull kids from far away consistently. There are great schools everywhere.

Let me interpret what you said ... MU and UW have a permanent disadvantage, it's called the weather.  Of course Koenig and Tokoto want to get out of here, they are shoveling snow whereas UNC kids are looking at pretty girls.

Disagree?

If not, how do we change this so the Koenigs and Tokotos want to come to MU and/or UW?

[butchbadger]

The weather has to be a huge factor along with its Duke, and UNC.


If not, how do we change this so the Koenigs and Tokotos want to come to MU and/or UW?

Not sure. It is a problem unless 1 of the schools stumles into a FF or championship.  It takes some luck. But if you do you can become bigger in the eyes of these kids. 

I don't think anyone thinks realistically that is goin to happen in the near future for either local school unless a player blows up like Wade di or the draw just sets up right.

The idiot Sparky on WSSP 1250 is always spouting off about how either program has low expectations.  The fact is the stat doesn't produce enought players (football too) and you are not going to pull top kids out of Texas, Florida, California, Ohio, or Michigan very often.  They either want to stay and play close to home or go play for Duke, Kansas, UNC or professionally at Kentucky.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What about UW in the last few years?  Look at the players coming out or Wisc. HS (not what they did afterwards).  UW is not getting the best in the state anymore.

They did not get JMay (and they would have taken him in a heart beat!), VB, Wilson and apparently Tokoto and Koenig.  

At least we are getting a fair share of the state's top players, they have been getting much less since Buzz arrived on the scene.

So, what's wrong with Madison?  Why are the best going there?

Wait a minute...are you being serious?  Wisconsin wanted NOTHING to do with JMay and would not have taken him in a heart beat.  THEY WANTED NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with JMay for all the reasons we shouldn't have either.

Now, what's odd is that you're saying that MU is getting more of the state's best players, yet Madison keeps beating us and has a better program than us the last decade....hmmm.  So what does that say?  It seems to me you are saying we have the better players but we are losing to them.  Awesome.

[willie warrior]

And I hate to be a pessimist, but if I had to bet on it right now I would say there's a better chance of MU slipping into the bottom half of the Big East than moving into the top 3-4.  Marquette simply doesn't recruit on the level of at least 5-6 teams in the conference and St. John's, Rutgers, Seton Hall and Cincy are getting better.

But...but...how can this be...we hear what an excellent recruiter the Coach is. Then he should be landing some of the top 40 types in state. Oh, sorry, he did, he landed Vander.

[TallTitan34]

Everyone who rips Buzz for landing Vander is a complete moron.  Show me one person who was upset when Vander signed with Marquette.  Who did you want us to take over him?

Second, Vander is still a quality player.  He is struggling his first go around in the Big East but he will improve.  HE IS A FRESHMAN!!!

[nathanziarek]

I'm not sure how two highly-rated players going to play for a relatively modern (and traditional) basketball powerhouse is so damning to our current staff.

When the whole "It's Indiana" thing came out, I didn't get it, but I've got a lousy memory and really didn't get into college hoops until 99. If I were a highly touted recruit, I'd much more likely want to go to a coach with recent success (history be damned). If that school just happened to also be steeped in basketball tradition, it'd make the decision a no-brainer.

That doesn't make Marquette a poor choice ... it's just not going to win the battle against that top tier of basketball schools very often.

[cheebs09]

Wait a minute...are you being serious?  Wisconsin wanted NOTHING to do with JMay and would not have taken him in a heart beat.  THEY WANTED NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with JMay for all the reasons we shouldn't have either.

Now, what's odd is that you're saying that MU is getting more of the state's best players, yet Madison keeps beating us and has a better program than us the last decade....hmmm.  So what does that say?  It seems to me you are saying we have the better players but we are losing to them.  Awesome.

Just because it seems like the top Wisconsin players aren't going to Wisconsin anymore since Buzz has been here doesn't mean our players are a ton better. Hu If you look, UW's two best players are from Minnesota. Nankivil has been good, but as far as I can remember he's been pretty inconsistent. I know he had a good game last night, but I haven't seen too many of their games. Otherwise their guys from Wisconsin like Jarmusz have been role players. Gasser looks to be a nice freshman, but I think Vander has more upside. Vander just needs to put it together and he has plenty of time left in his career to do that.

I will say I have been impressed with Buzz's ability to get good players from Wisconsin. I know that was a big worry when he got hired. Hopefully we can get Tokoto, I don't think we have much chance at Koenig. Although losing Tokoto to UNC isn't anything to be ashamed of, plenty of states lose their top players to UNC or Duke each year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Everyone who rips Buzz for landing Vander is a complete moron.  Show me one person who was upset when Vander signed with Marquette.  Who did you want us to take over him?

Second, Vander is still a quality player.  He is struggling his first go around in the Big East but he will improve.  HE IS A FRESHMAN!!!

Agree with this.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not sure how two highly-rated players going to play for a relatively modern (and traditional) basketball powerhouse is so damning to our current staff.

When the whole "It's Indiana" thing came out, I didn't get it, but I've got a lousy memory and really didn't get into college hoops until 99. If I were a highly touted recruit, I'd much more likely want to go to a coach with recent success (history be damned). If that school just happened to also be steeped in basketball tradition, it'd make the decision a no-brainer.

That doesn't make Marquette a poor choice ... it's just not going to win the battle against that top tier of basketball schools very often.

+1   No shame in losing guys to UNC.

[MUBurrow]

Everyone who rips Buzz for landing Vander is a complete moron.  Show me one person who was upset when Vander signed with Marquette.  Who did you want us to take over him?

Second, Vander is still a quality player.  He is struggling his first go around in the Big East but he will improve.  HE IS A FRESHMAN!!!

+ every MU fan not caught up in the apocalyptic scoop talk

[ATL MU Warrior]

Wait a minute...are you being serious?  Wisconsin wanted NOTHING to do with JMay and would not have taken him in a heart beat.  THEY WANTED NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with JMay for all the reasons we shouldn't have either.

Now, what's odd is that you're saying that MU is getting more of the state's best players, yet Madison keeps beating us and has a better program than us the last decade....hmmm.  So what does that say?  It seems to me you are saying we have the better players but we are losing to them.  Awesome.

And who was MU's coach for the better part of the last decade?  There's the oh-so elusive answer to your question. 

[NCMUFan]

I don't know Roy's approach, but I would have to say playing time is tremendously competitive at UNC.  Hence, does one want to take a big risk at UNC of just being a practice player?

[Tugg Speedman]

That's why it doesn't matter if they sign with UNC.  Tokoto will eventually transfer to MU and Koenig will eventually transfer to UW.

[4everwarriors]

Doubt it. I think these cats can ball.