Putting the Pieces Together

[CTWarrior]

Having watched all our games twice (once live and once replayed), it seems we have all sorts of talent, but not bundled into one player or group.

PG - Cadougan seems to have great court vision and understanding, but lacks tremendous ball handling and athleticism.  Buycks has quickness and can shoot and handle OK, but lacks understanding and court vision.  Smith has quickness and defense, but has thus far demonstrated little ability to run an offense.
SG - DJO is the complete offensive package at the 2 despite some early struggles, and while his defense leaves a little to be desired, he's certainly not a bad defender.  Buycks has same issues here, and Blue is a great defender and can penetrate, but is very vulnerable to zones.
SF - Butler is a great college 3, but is forced to play out of position at the 4 too much.  Same thing is true of Crowder.  We end up using guards here most of the time.  Jones doesn't play enough to know what he can do.
PF - We don't really have one of these, though we use Butler and Crowder here.  Crowder especially, has trouble defending the good big man on the blocks.  Williams doesn't really get to play enough to see what he can do, and Fulce is a nice bench player at this position if he's ever healthy enough to come back.
C - Otule provides defense, Gardner offense, and neither rebounding.

Despite the obvious depth of talent, I think Buzz is going to have a tough time putting together a rotation that offers enough balance of offense, defense and rebounding.  Lots of good pieces here, but I'm not sure how they fit.

It seems to me we'd be at our best with Butler, Crowder and one of Gardner/Otule plus two guards, but that keeps a lot of our most talented players fighting for minutes.

[OhioGoldenEagle]

Cadougan lacks tremendous ball handling?  You lost me with that early statement.  What are you expecting.....an Allen Iverson-like crossover?

[Canadian Dimes]

Curly Neal?

[w0bbie]

Cadougan lacks tremendous ball handling?  You lost me with that early statement.  What are you expecting.....an Allen Iverson-like crossover?

Agreed.  Junior might not have flashy dribble moves but he's always in control of the ball, doesn't get it poked away, and doesn't get called for carrying/traveling several times per game like Bucyks is prone to.

[MarquetteDano]

Agreed.  Junior might not have flashy dribble moves but he's always in control of the ball, doesn't get it poked away, and doesn't get called for carrying/traveling several times per game like Bucyks is prone to.

Agree that Junior is a better ballhandler overall.  However, turnovers per 40 minutes....

Buycks: 3.88
Cadougan: 3.88

[w0bbie]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.  Numbers don't lie, but it seems to me that a lot of Junior's turnover come about when he's trying to make a play (passes going through someone's hands or being a little off target, handing off to Crowder who set a pick instead of taking the ball).  These are still mistakes, but ones that experience should help to eliminate.  I'd rather have a TO during the execution of the offense than traveling in the backcourt with no defensive pressure in sight or being stripped of the ball 30 ft. from the basket (like what happened when Duke went on their final run).  Maybe this is just my Buycks-isn't-a-PG glasses obscuring the facts, but I feel better with the ball in Junior's hands and Dwight playing off the ball.

[warriors1991]

 

"Agree that Junior is a better ballhandler overall.  However, turnovers per 40 minutes....

Buycks: 3.88
Cadougan: 3.88"

And Buycks is a senior and Cadougan a sophomore with pretty much no court time as a freshman. I also feel that, having watched/been at all the games so far, Buycks' turnovers are more often of the bonehead variety, just poor silly decisions. It's like he just stops thinking out there.
Not to be letting JC 'off the hook' but I have less patience for a senior making freshman mistakes than a sophomore who is at near-freshman-level game experience.

[Canadian Dimes]

I think the real issue is we are not as strong at point as we have become accustomed.  Right now it is a choice between a senior that brings some things to the table and has some weaknesses versus a sophomore that also has some strengths and weaknesses.

I would add that while buycks and Junior may turn it over the same...Buycks also takes alot of bad shots...which dont tecnically count as turnovers.  Those bad shots are probably what most posters have a beef with as much as the actual turnovers.

not arguing for one over the other and I am sure Buzz has the same angst over the two as the posters, just pointing out that to/game is only one imperfect way of judging things.

[OhioGoldenEagle]

You know what all of these discussions make me realize?  How spoiled were we with Dom James!  I know many on this board were awfully critical of Dom......Horrible free throw shooter.....quit taking soooo many 3's!  I was a staunch defender of him and these days only reiterates how good he was both on the offensive end and shut down defender.  (Just wish he could make it in the Association)

[Skatastrophy]

You know what all of these discussions make me realize?  How spoiled were we with Dom James!  I know many on this board were awfully critical of Dom......Horrible free throw shooter.....quit taking soooo many 3's!  I was a staunch defender of him and these days only reiterates how good he was both on the offensive end and shut down defender.  (Just wish he could make it in the Association)

We were spoiled with Acker too.  His A:T was crazy.

[GGGG]

I think the real issue is we are not as strong at point as we have become accustomed.  Right now it is a choice between a senior that brings some things to the table and has some weaknesses versus a sophomore that also has some strengths and weaknesses.

I would add that while buycks and Junior may turn it over the same...Buycks also takes alot of bad shots...which dont tecnically count as turnovers.  Those bad shots are probably what most posters have a beef with as much as the actual turnovers.

Well, DB does take bad shots...but Junior doesn't seem to have much scoring offense whatsoever.

We really don't have a great answer at point right now.

[downtown85]

C - Otule provides defense, Gardner offense, and neither rebounding.

I think Gardner is a pretty good rebounder.  He averages 1 rebound for every 3.125 minutes on the floor.  Not too bad.  This means if he had the stamina and could play 31 minutes a night, he would be a 10 rpg player. 

Rebounding is more about knowing angles around the basket and positioning around the basket. Gardner seems pretty good at that. 

[MarquetteDano]

I think Gardner is a pretty good rebounder.  He averages 1 rebound for every 3.125 minutes on the floor.  Not too bad.  This means if he had the stamina and could play 31 minutes a night, he would be a 10 rpg player.  

Rebounding is more about knowing angles around the basket and positioning around the basket. Gardner seems pretty good at that.  

I would say right now Gardner is a good offensive rebounder.  I am not so sure about his defensive rebounding, which we need the most right now.  Gardner has gotten schooled quite a bit on the defensive rebound end.

p.s. I think he will most certainly improve his defensive rebounding.  But right now I would not consder him very good in that area

[downtown85]

I would say right now Gardner is a good offensive rebounder.  I am not so sure about his defensive rebounding, which we need the most right now.  Gardner has gotten schooled quite a bit on the defensive rebound end.

p.s. I think he will most certainly improve his defensive rebounding.  But right now I would not consder him very good in that area

He actually has more offensive rebounds per game than defensive boards, which, I think, is unusual.

[CTWarrior]

Cadougan lacks tremendous ball handling?  You lost me with that early statement.  What are you expecting.....an Allen Iverson-like crossover?

Perhaps, as another poster said, it is because I am used to the consistent good PG play over the past several years, but watching Cadougan it often seems he is harrassed into giving up the dribble and passing just to avoid turning it over and not to progress the offense.  So I don't think his handle is where a good PG's needs to be right now.

[CTWarrior]

We were spoiled with Acker too.  His A:T was crazy.

+1.  He was a big reason why we exceeded my expectations last year.  After watching him finish his junior season, where technically he was fine because he didn't turn it over, I wasn't expecting much from him because he didn't generate any offense for himself or anyone else.  But he was so much better his senior year and that, along with the arrival of DJO, were the biggest reasons for our surprising season last year, IMO.

[Boone]

Junior's 1.8/1.0 assist-to-turnover ratio isn't anything to write home about. Seems like there's also a lot of possessions where he'll dribble up court to the right side of the key and hand it off to a teammate (who will subsequently initiate the offense), never to see the ball again.

[PJDunn]

Junior will improve as the season goes along.  As has been noted above we have been exceptionally spoiled by great PG play.  You have to go back to the depths of the Dukiet era to find a time when we did not have an absolutely outstanding PG.  Think of the list, Miller, Hutch, Henry, Dom, etc...

[MUSF]

I don't think it's about putting the righ pieces together; it's about someone stepping up to lead this team on the court. 

[brewcity77]

I think Gardner is a pretty good rebounder.  He averages 1 rebound for every 3.125 minutes on the floor.  Not too bad.  This means if he had the stamina and could play 31 minutes a night, he would be a 10 rpg player.

No, it doesn't. That's the logic that got Jim McIlvane his much-maligned contract with Seattle. "If he averages 2.1 blocks in 14 minutes, he'll average 6 a game if he's playing starter minutes!" But when his minutes went up, his blocks went down.

I think Gardner can develop into a very good player, but extrapolating statistics, as nice as it may look on paper, is never going to be completely accurate. His numbers also project out to about 24.8 ppg if we get him to 31 minutes. As good as Gardner could be, if he averages 24.8 ppg and 10 rpg, you're talking about a likely first-team All-American. I'm not ready to put him in that category just yet.

[downtown85]

No, it doesn't. That's the logic that got Jim McIlvane his much-maligned contract with Seattle. "If he averages 2.1 blocks in 14 minutes, he'll average 6 a game if he's playing starter minutes!" But when his minutes went up, his blocks went down.

I think Gardner can develop into a very good player, but extrapolating statistics, as nice as it may look on paper, is never going to be completely accurate. His numbers also project out to about 24.8 ppg if we get him to 31 minutes. As good as Gardner could be, if he averages 24.8 ppg and 10 rpg, you're talking about a likely first-team All-American. I'm not ready to put him in that category just yet.

I agree generally that extrapolating statistics gets one in trouble but I have to respectfully diagree in Gardner's case with regards to rebounds.  I think his rebounds per minute can go up from here if he starts to rebound better on the defensive end.  Generally, as we have all observed, he still needs to work a lot on his game on the defensive side of the court.   He misses too many assignments and is caught out of position too much around the basket on defense.  I think that if he solves these issues he will get more minutes and more rebounds per minute.  Points per minute is a different story and I pretty much agree with you.  I think he has something like a 70+% field goal percentage now.  That will be hard to maintain later in the season.  Let's see how it works out.  Hope he gets back on the court soon.