TCU to the Big East

[JimmyLikesBasketball]

1.   Auburn #182
2.   Oregon #118
3.   TCU #138
4.   Stanford #75
5.   Wisconsin #17
6.   Ohio State #3
7.   Arkansas #87
8.   Michigan State #8
9.   Oklahoma #114
10.   LSU #78

Hard not to look at this and respect the Big 10 (12*) as the most complete basketball/football conference in the country. Wisco, OSU, MSU are solid right now in both.

[GGGG]

Van Pelt is absolutely killing this decision by the Big East right now.  He thinks it is a total rush to judgement move.

Scott Van Pelt?  Lol...why would anyone care what he thinks of this?

[spiral97]

Hmmmm maybe I'll catch a few more games on TV here in the DFW area then.. not to mention seeing an extra game in person every other year or so.. I'm game!

[chren21]

Scott Van Pelt?  Lol...why would anyone care what he thinks of this?

I don't care, just thought it was interesting comming from a national broadcasters point of view.

[CAINMUTINY]

I assume you forgot to highlight your post about MU joining the Big Ten in teal?

[jfmu]

I like it.  Who cares if TCU isn’t good at basketball – they are better than DePaul and you aren’t going to get a football team you need for BCS purposes that is also good at basketball.  

not according to luke winn

2009-10:
TCU Efficiency Ranking: 178
Big East Teams with lower efficiency rankings: 0 (Closest: No. 172 DePaul, No. 156 Rutgers)

2008-09:
TCU Efficiency Ranking: 124
Big East Teams with lower efficiency rankings: 3 (No. 135 South Florida, No. 141 Rutgers, No. 198 DePaul)

2007-08:
TCU Efficiency Ranking: 169
Big East Teams with lower efficiency rankings: 0 (Closest: No. 164 Rutgers, No. 126 St. John's)

2006-07:
TCU Efficiency Ranking: 152
Big East Teams with lower efficiency rankings: 1 (No. 166 Rutgers)

2005-06:
TCU Efficiency Ranking: 229
Big East Teams with lower efficiency rankings: 0 (Closest: No. 162 South Florida, No. 108 St. John's)


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/11/29/tcu.big.east/index.html#ixzz16jHJbrqE

[HouWarrior]

Current Timing? TCU would like to assure itself of a BCS at large bowl bid this year, and being "on deck" to join an AQconf may make those votes easier.

Longer term, this helps BE preserve its BCS AQ status...which, given the rise of MWest (and lack of BE team in FB top25) was by no means a sure thing.

Anything that preserves the BCS AQ status makes BE more viable for TV$$--important to conf., as a whole, incl the BB side

Our best preservation in this or any power conf is to keep fielding NCAA tourney quality teams...do that and we'll always have a good home

[El Duderino]

I don't think this is so bad.  If the Big East didn't move to bring in another FB school they were always in danger of getting one of their schools poached and then having the conference disband.  Now that they strengthened their FB position I think that it helps ensure the existence of the conference and as long as the conference exists and we finish in the top half for basketball then I think we'll have a home. 

If I were Seton Hall or DePaul I would be more worried.

Yea, worst case was avoided by the Big East not getting raided with say Pittsburgh going to the Big Ten. Now with TCU and their football program going the Big East, it seems to lessen the chance that a Big East two way program would be in a rush to bolt for a better football conference.

I'm still concerned about Marquette's place in the Big East, but TCU joining at least lessens my fears somewhat.

[marquette99]

I know we worry about being unweildy with up to 20 hoops teams, but if that gets be to 12 football teams it provides pretty good assurance that tcu plus any 7 are still bcs even if raided.

[cheebs09]

Villanova has to make their decision soon.

In discussions I had today with one of the girls that could be invited to the Big East dance, the Villanova decision is likely the next domino to fall, but there is also a few potential other possibilities.

If Nova decides to play football in the Big East, the conference may stop there.  If Nova decides not to step up, then Big East adds one other school from a list of three.   The other option is to add three more schools if Nova says no (or two more if Nova says yes).  Interesting times.

Just curious Chicos, would you say that those other scenarios would be favorable for MU or at the very least not a bad scenario for MU?

[KipsBayEagle]

I don't know why anyone could possibly be anything other than very happy with this move.  The Big East just got the #3 team in the nation in football to join its conference, added the state of texas to the big east television market, and also added a very solid academic school as well (#99 in world report).  basketball schools will be fine, and football will be competitive.  I was really surprised other conferences weren't pushing hard for TCU, big 12 and sec in particular(the sec with a presence in texas would do a number on texas's fan base).  Count your blessing we could lure a top flight football team into the conference for essentially nothing.  This was a necessary move, and it probably could save the big east.

[GGGG]

Kips, there are a couple reasons why the Big 12 and SEC weren't interested in TCU.  TCU really doesn't give you the Texas market anymore that Marquette gives you the Wisconsin market.  It is a small private school that has had very good, and very recent success, in football, but doesn't have widespread support in the state.  (In fact, a friend of mine who is a Baylor alum believes that TCU actually benefitted by being left out of the B12 equation while Baylor was "thrown to the wolves" and struggled as a result.)  When the B12 was formed TCU was basically a non-entity in football.

The B12 adding TCU really doesn't add anything to the conference...it's market overlap.  The SEC isn't going to be interested in Texas unless it can land Texas or Texas A&M...and I think the latter will eventually happen.

That being said, it really is a good fit from a BE football perspective.

[bilsu]

Let's add one more basketball team. Two nine team divisions.

I do not like divisions. I want to play everyone once. We should go to a 16 game schedule, if we stay with 17 teams. I hate mirror games that result in unbalanced schedules.

[bilsu]

I cannot see how this will help Marquette.  At this point I think our departure from the BE is now inevitable. 

It helps Marquette, because one of the reasons not to have MU was that they were really not in the East. Hard to argue that one now. What would hurt MU is to start losing.

[bilsu]

I wonder about this myself. The BEast is becoming way too big, and a real mish mash with some schools in for BBall and at least one with a FBall team that is not in for that.

It seems to me that sooner or later, the geography, varied interests and football greed will cause a major upheaval of this cobference.

The Big East is not to big, because we have to play mirror games to get to an 18 game schedule. At this point the perfect size would be 19 teams with 12 being football teams. For basketball you would play evereyone once on an alternating home and away basis. No more mirror games. You would have 9 road games and 9 home games every year. You cannot have that with an even number of teams in the conference. The only way the conference implodes is if the basketball only schools cannot agree with the football schools on how to divide the money.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Negative: A game against TCU means one less game against Pitt or Louisville or Notre Dame.

Positive: A game against TCU means one less game against Pitt or Louisville or Notre Dame (in theory).

AND means perhaps at least another 5 years of playing Syracuse and UConn every year, and not playing SLU and Dayton every year.

[Steve Buscemi]

There's something wrong with the fuzzy geography of a Texas team in the Big East? And, what's up with Horny Frogs?
This won't help Buzz' recruiting of Texas kids wanting to play in the BE.

true and true

[brewcity77]

The Big East is not to big, because we have to play mirror games to get to an 18 game schedule. At this point the perfect size would be 19 teams with 12 being football teams. For basketball you would play evereyone once on an alternating home and away basis. No more mirror games. You would have 9 road games and 9 home games every year. You cannot have that with an even number of teams in the conference. The only way the conference implodes is if the basketball only schools cannot agree with the football schools on how to divide the money.

In theory, I agree with this. It gives the Big East enough football teams for a conference championship, likely ensures their place in the BCS, and makes for a nice, neat basketball schedule. So the perfect scenario is either 'Nova or Notre Dame join in football, then the Big East brings in two other teams that play both, most likely UCF and one other school.

However, this also creates the problem of an imbalance between football and basketball-only schools. Why in this scenario would the football schools want to keep the basketball schools around? Do any of the basketball-only schools really justify their presence? I'm sure the Big East would do just fine without Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul. Sure, Notre Dame and us have had success, but despite that the Big East would have plenty of top end talent without us. The only real tough calls are Georgetown's history of success and tradition, and St. John's as a doorway to the New York market. My guess is that with Rutgers and Syracuse, the BEast would have no problem keeping a foothold in New York. Which means only Georgetown is really tough to get rid of, but when you only have one team you really want to keep and six you could live without, it makes it a lot easier to flush all seven.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Just curious Chicos, would you say that those other scenarios would be favorable for MU or at the very least not a bad scenario for MU?

I did ask point blank if there was any discussion of pushing a basketball only school(s) out of the conference and the response was "not that I'm aware of".  That doesn't mean much.

Remember, to push someone out requires a lot of votes by a lot of schools.  Temple was kicked out, so it can happen, but it's not a slam dunk.

Whether any of these scenarios help MU....I look at it like this.  If MU wants to remain in the Big East, I think this is a good thing BUT there are caveats to it.  For the Big East to survive, I believe they must do what they are doing.  The question is, by doing what the are doing for football does it kill basketball?  I don't know.  It seems obvious they'll need to go to multiple divisions for basketball to make this fly on that side.

At some point, there are going to be 4 to 5 super conferences anyway with 20 teams or so.   Will they all be football only conferences or a mix?  Interesting times ahead.

[GoldenWarrior]

I don't think this is so bad.  If the Big East didn't move to bring in another FB school they were always in danger of getting one of their schools poached and then having the conference disband.  Now that they strengthened their FB position I think that it helps ensure the existence of the conference and as long as the conference exists and we finish in the top half for basketball then I think we'll have a home. 

If I were Seton Hall or DePaul I would be more worried.

 

I totally agree.  I don't see this as a negative for Marquette.  The movement in college sports is to powerhouse conferences.  The Big East is on their way there and we are already in it.  Smaller/weaker conferences are in danger of being poached into oblivion, we are in a conference, that now with this move, isn't going anywhere.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The comment from one Dallas sportswriter was funny


Sportswriting legend Dan Jenkins, a Fort Worth native and a TCU alum, remains the Horned Frogs' unofficial First Fan. He is delighted the Frogs will play east instead of west.

"Mainly, I like the time zone," Jenkins said in an e-mail. "America will have a chance to know who we played and the result."

And he feels pretty good about the results to come, too.

"We should keep winning football games," Jenkins said, "but we're not likely to win a basketball game the rest of my lifetime."

[TallTitan34]

TCU will be able to begin selling playing in the Big East to recruits.  Will this hurt Buzz's pipeline to Texas?

[Litehouse]

TCU will be able to begin selling playing in the Big East to recruits.  Will this hurt Buzz's pipeline to Texas?

Will it help?  Now Buzz can promise some local homecoming games to Texas recruits.

[HouWarrior]

Was TCU joining the BE good for the BE?
According to ESPN's Pat Forde it was THE ONLY GOOD THING, this year, to wit:

• Big East Conference
Overall Grade: F. After several years of defying doomsayers and producing a BCS-worthy champion, the league bottomed out. The league has no quality wins out of conference and finally ended a five-week absence from the BCS Top 25 this week. It has been a Flavor of the Month conference, with no one able to play at a consistently high level. It has even suffered in comparison to non-AQ leagues like the Mountain West and Western Athletic -- though it made a good move for its football future this week by officially bringing TCU aboard in 2012.

[w0bbie]

Was TCU joining the BE good for the BE?
According to ESPN's Pat Forde it was THE ONLY GOOD THING, this year, to wit:

• Big East Conference
Overall Grade: F. After several years of defying doomsayers and producing a BCS-worthy champion, the league bottomed out. The league has no quality wins out of conference and finally ended a five-week absence from the BCS Top 25 this week. It has been a Flavor of the Month conference, with no one able to play at a consistently high level. It has even suffered in comparison to non-AQ leagues like the Mountain West and Western Athletic -- though it made a good move for its football future this week by officially bringing TCU aboard in 2012.

key word here is "football" future