Buzz can make the call

[NersEllenson]

Im not suggesting you are wrong, but I am curious who the coaches that oversign are. If there are "many" that do it every year, then who were some of the coaches that did it last year?

Some don't oversign, but they just choose to keep dudes on their team that punch their girlfriend..i.e.:  Derek Devendorf at Syracuse.

[kmwtrucks]

Roseboro was his mistake.  He opted to correct it in the cleanest way possible for him and Brett.  When he discussed with Brett that he was not going to play in the Big East, he had no idea the assault charge would ever happen.  That happened 9 mos after we cut ties with him.  Brett did not have a history of that type of thing when he arrived.  I think Buzz made the right call here, I just want him to watch player's a little more in the future before he makes a offer and lets somebody sign a LOI.

[ATWizJr]

What is the minimum number of times weird stuff has to happen before we can talk about it?

New Orleans? Ok, the University is nuts.
Mbawke? Ok, the kid is nuts.
Roseboro? Ok, the kid wasn't good enough.
Mac? Buzz was nuts, but apologized.
Mo Acker? Ok, the kid made a mistake.
Maymon? Ok, the family is nuts.
Newbill? Ok, the AAU coach is nuts.

I'm not blaming Buzz for ANY of this stuff, I assure you of that. There is rationale behind all of them.

BUT (playing devils advocate) at what point is it ok to notice some things or be concerned that Buzz is the common denominator? He's not the blame, but a large list of "weird stuff" could be a concern. Where is the tipping point?

I'm not anti-MU or anti-Buzz, I'm just trying to be honest. I'm very pleased with the way things have gone so far, but if the list of odd situations continues to grow, I have to wonder what the heck is going on.

This is not a snap judgment or an indictment of Buzz. It's just an honest observation.

So, in this long list, the only point remotely worth considering is the Newbill situation and we don't even know what actually happened there.  Tenuous, at best, officer.  Maybe a warning instead of ticket # 1?  I got it, yellow card!!    

[NersEllenson]

Roseboro was his mistake.  He opted to correct it in the cleanest way possible for him and Brett.  When he discussed with Brett that he was not going to play in the Big East, he had no idea the assault charge would ever happen.  That happened 9 mos after we cut ties with him.  Brett did not have a history of that type of thing when he arrived.  I think Buzz made the right call here, I just want him to watch player's a little more in the future before he makes a offer and lets somebody sign a LOI.

Agree..in full..simply referenced the assult charge as additional background...from a basketball point of view alone..Roseboro moving on in the fashion he did was the best for both parties...and it wasn't a case where we sent him away and brought someone else in to replace him.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So basically you are insinuating that Buzz is partially responsible for the drama associated with:  the former universtity he coached at electing to go to D3 ball, an accused rapist brought in by the previous regime, a player with an assult and battery conviction and 1.8ppg average, a pot smoking player he inherited from the previous regime..that he told to take a hike for awhile, an overzealous father with a criminal record?  

And could you definte "fanboy?"  What is that?

I forgot to mention Riley, but that's not Buzz's fault either.

A fanboy (imo) is somebody who rationalizes every move the coach or school makes.

Buzz is very good coach and I'm very pleased with the results so far. But, that doesn't mean that I can't make an honest observation about some of the weird stuff Buzz has been involved with.

It's not an attack on Buzz, I still like him a lot.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So, in this long list, the only point remotely worth considering is the Newbill situation and we don't even know what actually happened there.  Tenuous, at best, officer.  Maybe a warning instead of ticket # 1?  I got it, yellow card!!    

Let me be more clear:

None of this stuff is damning evidence for anything. I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody.

But, if "stuff" like this happens at this rate for the rest of Buzz's career, it's going to be concerning. 

Can we agree on that?

[NersEllenson]

I forgot to mention Riley, but that's not Buzz's fault either.

A fanboy (imo) is somebody who rationalizes every move the coach or school makes.

Buzz is very good coach and I'm very pleased with the results so far. But, that doesn't mean that I can't make an honest observation about some of the weird stuff Buzz has been involved with.

It's not an attack on Buzz, I still like him a lot.

Whatever dude.  Your original post was lame and your continued posts make it worse..did you not read the "tweet" Mbawke sent out about Buzz about 2 months ago - "Buzz getting it done, wish I could go back."  The fact you are trying to question Buzz's character or that he's a central figure in all this "weirdness," is just ridiculous.  You could say he made 2 recruiting mistakes in Newbill and Roseboro..but beyond that..the rest of your plot/picture you are trying to paint is ridiculous...and completely runied your credibility.  You have an agenda..and that's fine..just be real about it at least..and the agenda is to try to illustrate that Tom Crean wasn't a bad guy..or that Buzz Williams isn't any better...which is fine and within reason..but just flat out say it..don't try to insinuate..

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Whatever dude.  Your original post was lame and your continued posts make it worse..did you not read the "tweet" Mbawke sent out about Buzz about 2 months ago - "Buzz getting it done, wish I could go back."  The fact you are trying to question Buzz's character or that he's a central figure in all this "weirdness," is just ridiculous.  You could say he made 2 recruiting mistakes in Newbill and Roseboro..but beyond that..the rest of your plot/picture you are trying to paint is ridiculous...and completely runied your credibility.  You have an agenda..and that's fine..just be real about it at least..and the agenda is to try to illustrate that Tom Crean wasn't a bad guy..or that Buzz Williams isn't any better...which is fine and within reason..but just flat out say it..don't try to insinuate..

Would you say that Riley a recruiting mistake as well? (just for accuracy).

As for the rest of your stuff, that's not true at all. No agenda, and I'm probably just going to keep my "anti-Buzz rants" to myself in the future.

Sorry for the mild thread-jack everybody.

[Lennys Tap]

I forgot to mention Riley, but that's not Buzz's fault either.

A fanboy (imo) is somebody who rationalizes every move the coach or school makes.

Buzz is very good coach and I'm very pleased with the results so far. But, that doesn't mean that I can't make an honest observation about some of the weird stuff Buzz has been involved with.

It's not an attack on Buzz, I still like him a lot.

Should those of us you consider to be "fanboys" take that as an insult or wait to see if you repeat those accusations in the future

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Should those of us you consider to be "fanboys" take that as an insult or wait to see if you repeat those accusations in the future

Right now, it's isolated to this thread, so it's fine.

If I do it consistently in every thread, then it's a problem.

 

[RubyWiscy]

I doubt MU or any school would let a player like Taylor out of his NLI if nothing changed except he suddenly had a chance to play for a better team.

Um, JMay? (At least in his mind.)

[Lennys Tap]

I forgot to mention Riley, but that's not Buzz's fault either.

A fanboy (imo) is somebody who rationalizes every move the coach or school makes.

Buzz is very good coach and I'm very pleased with the results so far. But, that doesn't mean that I can't make an honest observation about some of the weird stuff Buzz has been involved with.

It's not an attack on Buzz, I still like him a lot.

I too am sick about Riley. Losing the most decorated 12 year old in the history of Marquette's summer camp was a hard pill to swallow. But to blame Buzz that he chose to follow his Daddy down to Bloomington is a bit much. Good news is that he (Riley Crean) is telling anyone who will listen he's unhappy and considering a transfer. Hope Buzz keeps a spot open.

[Blackhat]

Im not suggesting you are wrong, but I am curious who the coaches that oversign are. If there are "many" that do it every year, then who were some of the coaches that did it last year?

I don't pretend to know each roster movement of the 300-some DI colleges.

 But of a couple of other teams I vaguely follow I know Mark Turgeon at A&M and Anthony Grant at Alabama have oversigned. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I too am sick about Riley. Losing the most decorated 12 year old in the history of Marquette's summer camp was a hard pill to swallow. But to blame Buzz that he chose to follow his Daddy down to Bloomington is a bit much. Good news is that he (Riley Crean) is telling anyone who will listen he's unhappy and considering a transfer. Hope Buzz keeps a spot open.

Crap. I meant Montrele Clark.

I'm an idiot.

[Pakuni]

Tom Crean

Correct, you are.
To the best of my knowledge, nobody's thrown a potted plant at Buzz lately. And I Can't seem to recall him taking to Twitter to make thinly veiled acusations against the head coach of a conference rival.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Bingo. I'd guess Chicos has at minimum a couple of thousand posts "judging" Buzz since he was hired and the vast majority of them are decidedly negative. He thinks that when he adds a "but I really like Buzz" or a "I think Buzz is doing a great job so far" to a post ripping him it evens things out. Just as he thinks adding a "sure TC can be a jerk" to a soliloquey calling for TC's canonization it proves he's no longer gaga over his boy.

This whole DJ Newbill situation is exhibit A. Don't get me wrong. Buzz certainly owns blame here. Offering a scholarship you may not have (even if the recipient is made aware) is the wrong way to do business. But at least the athletic department and Buzz are admitting it's their decision that DJ won't be coming to MU. Crean did the same thing with Damian Saunders in 2006, then washed his hands ala Pontius Pilate as he had the admissions office do his dirty work for him. That Chicos is apoplectic over Buzz "ruining a kids life" (can you say hyperbole) but unquestioning of TC says it all.

Again, I'm not saying that because Crean was as big or a bigger creep in a similiar situation it excuses Buzz. And while I happen to think outrage is an over the top reaction in this case I won't quibble with those who honestly feel it (MUSF, 3 Mers, etc). I won't, however, accept it from someone who didn't even take pause over the whole Saunders fiasco.

And you would be decidedly wrong, as usual.  Look it up

[ChicosBailBonds]

"Las Vegas has currently taken the over/unders on all these categories "off the board. Heavy action on all the "overs"."



Still nothing, I'm so disappointed. 

[ATWizJr]

Let me be more clear:

None of this stuff is damning evidence for anything. I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody.

But, if "stuff" like this happens at this rate for the rest of Buzz's career, it's going to be concerning. 

Can we agree on that?

 

Sure, we can agree on that, but that's like agreeing that cancer is bad and that we all want clean air and water.  Who wouldn't agree with that?  The problem is the insinuation that Buzz has done something unethical when there is NO evidence in the cases cited that Buzz had done anything of the sort.  But if he does.....

[Lennys Tap]

And you would be decidedly wrong, as usual.  Look it up

If you can reference 40 - 50 of your posts on Dodds or anywhere else you were posting in August of 2006 saying things like Tom Crean ruined Damian Saunders life I'll gladly apologize. But since you were still claiming very recently (until you were busted by Tom Crean's own quotes on the subject) that Saunders was denied admission due to a drug arrest I doubt you had much outrage back in 2006.

[Lennys Tap]

 

Sure, we can agree on that, but that's like agreeing that cancer is bad and that we all want clean air and water.  Who wouldn't agree with that?  The problem is the insinuation that Buzz has done something unethical when there is NO evidence in the cases cited that Buzz had done anything of the sort.  But if he does.....

+1000

[ChicosBailBonds]

If you can reference 40 - 50 of your posts on Dodds or anywhere else you were posting in August of 2006 saying things like Tom Crean ruined Damian Saunders life I'll gladly apologize. But since you were still claiming very recently (until you were busted by Tom Crean's own quotes on the subject) that Saunders was denied admission due to a drug arrest I doubt you had much outrage back in 2006.

Nope....I probably can't....plus I can't get into my Dodds account and haven't been able to for years.  As I also stated earlier today, it's entirely possible that I applauded the Saunders move or maybe had no opinion on it whatsoever, I don't recall.  AND, I said, after watching what Crean started (with this oversigning crap) and Buzz continuing it, we shouldn't be doing it any longer.  People's opinions can change...right?  People can see the results of an action that looked benign originally but turned out bad, right?  Or are people stuck with their positions for life, please let me know.

This isn't a Buzz thing Lenny, this is a Marquette thing.  Marquette University should not be doing this, period.  Whether it's Crean or Buzz or anyone else.  Some conferences don't even allow oversigning.  And there are teams within conferences that allow it, that have the integrity not to allow it, yet they still perform at a high level.

There are only two reasons to oversign players, and neither of them put Marquette or any institution in a good light.

[NersEllenson]

Crap. I meant Montrele Clark.

I'm an idiot.

Yes, you are...

[NersEllenson]

I too am sick about Riley. Losing the most decorated 12 year old in the history of Marquette's summer camp was a hard pill to swallow. But to blame Buzz that he chose to follow his Daddy down to Bloomington is a bit much. Good news is that he (Riley Crean) is telling anyone who will listen he's unhappy and considering a transfer. Hope Buzz keeps a spot open.

Hilarious.  Riley did win the MVP of Marquette's summer camp, correct?  Are we in his Final Five, or is has he ruled Marquette out?

[ChicosBailBonds]

 

Sure, we can agree on that, but that's like agreeing that cancer is bad and that we all want clean air and water.  Who wouldn't agree with that?  The problem is the insinuation that Buzz has done something unethical when there is NO evidence in the cases cited that Buzz had done anything of the sort.  But if he does.....

NO evidence?  Sure, if you throw out all accounts by the other party involved.  I think it's a wild stretch to say NO evidence.

[NersEllenson]

NO evidence?  Sure, if you throw out all accounts by the other party involved.  I think it's a wild stretch to say NO evidence.

Let it go Chicos, let it go.  The poster was referring to MU2002 original post which outlined about 7 ridiculous scenarios that involve Buzz and "weirdness."  6 of the 7 were a joke.  This latest scenario with Newbill can be viewed skeptically, and as shady - based on the story told by the other party..ASSUMING it is 100% true (which it most likely is not).  That said, even if IWB's account is 100% true, I..like most Buzz hardcore supporters here...hope we don't do this type of thing again.