Buzz can make the call

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is exactly my point; before getting too alarmed, why don't we wait to see if situations like this arise over and over again. 

And we don't even really know what happened in this situation!

Well, then we agree.

Sweet.

[ATWizJr]

Well, then we agree.

Sweet.

Almost.  So, don't bring it up until situations like this arise over and over again.

Don't bother to thank me.

[NersEllenson]

Good questions.  Exactly why Buzz and any coach needs to be watched.  However, you need to judge people in the game by the same standards.  Were JMay or Mbakwe any less ethical than Buzz for not honoring their signed NLIs? Did Buzz actually do Roseboro and Newbill a favor by sending them packing before they wasted a year of eligibility at MU or was Crean more ethical for keeping players around and "encouraging" them to leave after they had spent a year? If Buzz doesn't win is it ethical for the school to fire him even if he has a signed contract?

So many questions. So elusive the answers.

Great post..all good questions.

[NersEllenson]

Mbakwe and JMay both honored their NLIs.

To say that Mbawke and JMay honored their NLI's is splitting hairs, at best.  But, if you want to play that way, what about Tyshawn Taylor and Nick Williams?  Did they honor their LOI's to Marquette University?   Big, fat, NO.  JMay - he didn't even hold up the "1-year" language of the NLI..bailed after 7 months.

These kids don't really give a rats ass that they are playing ball for Marquette University - they come to Marquette to develop their basketball game to its fullest potential..AND...in the process grow as young men.  They select Marquette due to the Coach, number 1, to the current players on the team, number 2..and the university/facilities, 3.  If this is false, then Taylor and Williams both would have honored their LOI's..as would Kevin Noreen at Boston College..and countless other examples.  The point is these kids use a university to advance their own agenda - is it that wrong for a Coach to advance his own agenda...when he elects to dismiss a player that likely wouldn't be a contributor - or suggest that he look at other options as he is overmatched?  Roseboro landed on his feet at St. Bonnies..Newbill will land on his feet somewhere too.  Keep in mind, it is very likely Buzz gave the Newbill camp some indication all along that prep school could be an option...and ultimately the Newbill camp thought they'd get into MU without prepping..so when that became the reality..they were upset/disappointed..and asked for their outright release.

[mu-rara]

To say that Mbawke and JMay honored their NLI's is splitting hairs, at best.  But, if you want to play that way, what about Tyshawn Taylor and Nick Williams?  Did they honor their LOI's to Marquette University?   Big, fat, NO.  JMay - he didn't even hold up the "1-year" language of the NLI..bailed after 7 months.

These kids don't really give a rats ass that they are playing ball for Marquette University - they come to Marquette to develop their basketball game to its fullest potential..AND...in the process grow as young men.  They select Marquette due to the Coach, number 1, to the current players on the team, number 2..and the university/facilities, 3.  If this is false, then Taylor and Williams both would have honored their LOI's..as would Kevin Noreen at Boston College..and countless other examples.  The point is these kids use a university to advance their own agenda - is it that wrong for a Coach to advance his own agenda...when he elects to dismiss a player that likely wouldn't be a contributor - or suggest that he look at other options as he is overmatched?  Roseboro landed on his feet at St. Bonnies..Newbill will land on his feet somewhere too.  Keep in mind, it is very likely Buzz gave the Newbill camp some indication all along that prep school could be an option...and ultimately the Newbill camp thought they'd get into MU without prepping..so when that became the reality..they were upset/disappointed..and asked for their outright release.

Amen.  These are big boys, who have their own advisors.  The top recruits are in it to get to the NBA.  Tyshawn Taylor is a great example.  If these guys perceive a change will do them good, they will make it.

[GGGG]

To say that Mbawke and JMay honored their NLI's is splitting hairs, at best.  But, if you want to play that way, what about Tyshawn Taylor and Nick Williams?  Did they honor their LOI's to Marquette University?   Big, fat, NO.  JMay - he didn't even hold up the "1-year" language of the NLI..bailed after 7 months.

These kids don't really give a rats ass that they are playing ball for Marquette University - they come to Marquette to develop their basketball game to its fullest potential..AND...in the process grow as young men.  They select Marquette due to the Coach, number 1, to the current players on the team, number 2..and the university/facilities, 3.  If this is false, then Taylor and Williams both would have honored their LOI's..as would Kevin Noreen at Boston College..and countless other examples.  The point is these kids use a university to advance their own agenda - is it that wrong for a Coach to advance his own agenda...when he elects to dismiss a player that likely wouldn't be a contributor - or suggest that he look at other options as he is overmatched?  Roseboro landed on his feet at St. Bonnies..Newbill will land on his feet somewhere too.  Keep in mind, it is very likely Buzz gave the Newbill camp some indication all along that prep school could be an option...and ultimately the Newbill camp thought they'd get into MU without prepping..so when that became the reality..they were upset/disappointed..and asked for their outright release.

Settle down....I was pointing out a factual error in his post.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

[NersEllenson]

Settle down....I was pointing out a factual error in his post.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Splitting hairs for sure...and it was pretty clear what the original poster's intent was...and what is your reaction to Taylor and Williams not honoring their LOI's to Marquette and Buzz?  Leaving MU and Buzz in scramble mode late in the spring signing period?  Or Mbawke..who used MU's medical staff to get his knee rehabbed to the best possible outcome..and then bailed on Buzz right before the start of the season?  This is a two-way street and kids break commitments to universities with far greater frequency than vice versa.  And again, we don't know the EXACT nature of the conversations between Buzz and the Newbills during the initial recruitment...so to fully assume MU totally screwed Newbill over is speculation/rumor/gossip at best.

[GGGG]

Splitting hairs for sure...and it was pretty clear what the original poster's intent was...and what is your reaction to Taylor and Williams not honoring their LOI's to Marquette and Buzz?  Leaving MU and Buzz in scramble mode late in the spring signing period?  Or Mbawke..who used MU's medical staff to get his knee rehabbed to the best possible outcome..and then bailed on Buzz right before the start of the season?  This is a two-way street and kids break commitments to universities with far greater frequency than vice versa.  And again, we don't know the EXACT nature of the conversations between Buzz and the Newbills during the initial recruitment...so to fully assume MU totally screwed Newbill over is speculation/rumor/gossip at best.

I don't think we should be in the business of signing kids to LOIs we do not plan on honoring, regardless of whatever side conversations we had.  If Buzz wants the flexibility of late season signings or transfers, don't offer the LOI to marginal D1 prospects in the first place.  I don't know if we screwed him over...I do know that it doesn't look good.

I don't like what Taylor or Mbakwe did...although what Taylor did was much more understandable.  I think the Nick Williams situation was a mutual decision considering that we didn't blink letting him out of his LOI.

[MUSF]

Splitting hairs for sure...and it was pretty clear what the original poster's intent was...and what is your reaction to Taylor and Williams not honoring their LOI's to Marquette and Buzz?  Leaving MU and Buzz in scramble mode late in the spring signing period?  Or Mbawke..who used MU's medical staff to get his knee rehabbed to the best possible outcome..and then bailed on Buzz right before the start of the season?  This is a two-way street and kids break commitments to universities with far greater frequency than vice versa.  And again, we don't know the EXACT nature of the conversations between Buzz and the Newbills during the initial recruitment...so to fully assume MU totally screwed Newbill over is speculation/rumor/gossip at best.

On some level i agree that it works both ways but these aren't apples to apples comparisons.

In the case of Taylor and Williams, conditions changed when the coach left.  With Newbill we simply found someone better.  The only situation that would be truly apples to apples is if a recruit opted out because a better offer came up which they can't do once they sign the NLI.  I doubt MU or any school would let a player like Taylor out of his NLI if nothing changed except he suddenly had a chance to play for a better team.

[NersEllenson]

I don't think we should be in the business of signing kids to LOIs we do not plan on honoring, regardless of whatever side conversations we had.  If Buzz wants the flexibility of late season signings or transfers, don't offer the LOI to marginal D1 prospects in the first place.  I don't know if we screwed him over...I do know that it doesn't look good.

I don't like what Taylor or Mbakwe did...although what Taylor did was much more understandable.  I think the Nick Williams situation was a mutual decision considering that we didn't blink letting him out of his LOI.

I can agree with all of the above - though I do think there is some relevance as to the side conversations involved in the recruitment.  I'm pretty sure Buzz was planning on this going down like the way Jay Wright has stashed 1 kid at prep school each of the last 2 years..but ultimately it didn't..and perhaps things that transpired from the offer, NLI signing, and ultimatle release - such as not getting application in, etc...just resulted in the parties going seperate ways.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Almost.  So, don't bring it up until situations like this arise over and over again.

Don't bother to thank me.

What is the minimum number of times weird stuff has to happen before we can talk about it?

New Orleans? Ok, the University is nuts.
Mbawke? Ok, the kid is nuts.
Roseboro? Ok, the kid wasn't good enough.
Mac? Buzz was nuts, but apologized.
Mo Acker? Ok, the kid made a mistake.
Maymon? Ok, the family is nuts.
Newbill? Ok, the AAU coach is nuts.

I'm not blaming Buzz for ANY of this stuff, I assure you of that. There is rationale behind all of them.

BUT (playing devils advocate) at what point is it ok to notice some things or be concerned that Buzz is the common denominator? He's not the blame, but a large list of "weird stuff" could be a concern. Where is the tipping point?

I'm not anti-MU or anti-Buzz, I'm just trying to be honest. I'm very pleased with the way things have gone so far, but if the list of odd situations continues to grow, I have to wonder what the heck is going on.

This is not a snap judgment or an indictment of Buzz. It's just an honest observation.

[NersEllenson]

What is the minimum number of times weird stuff has to happen before we can talk about it?

New Orleans? Ok, the University is nuts.
Mbawke? Ok, the kid is nuts.
Roseboro? Ok, the kid wasn't good enough.
Mac? Buzz was nuts, but apologized.
Mo Acker? Ok, the kid made a mistake.
Maymon? Ok, the family is nuts.
Newbill? Ok, the AAU coach is nuts.

I'm not blaming Buzz for ANY of this stuff, I assure you of that. There is rationale behind all of them.

BUT (playing devils advocate) at what point is it ok to notice some things or be concerned that Buzz is the common denominator? He's not the blame, but a large list of "weird stuff" could be a concern. Where is the tipping point?

I'm not anti-MU or anti-Buzz, I'm just trying to be honest. I'm very pleased with the way things have gone so far, but if the list of odd situations continues to grow, I have to wonder what the heck is going on.

This is not a snap judgment or an indictment of Buzz. It's just an honest observation.

What's the point of your observation - trying create a fire where there isn't even really smoke?  You acknowledge that 6 of the above 7 incidents the other party was nuts.  Do you want Buzz to be Jesus Christ..a walking, living, perfect human being?  He messed up with Mac in the ehat of the moment, and apologized..not a big deal..as for the other incidents you emtnion you have:

1) A University that moved down to Division 3 after it couldn't properly fund a D-1 program..which is what Buzz alledged..and why he left..and the move to D-3 completely exonerates Buzz.
2)Mbawke - an accused rapist
3)Roseboro - Guilty of assult, and a 1.8ppg average at St. boneaventure - he was overmatched at MU..clearly..and the kid realized it and decided to transfer..better than rotting at the end of the bench..sometimes recruiting mistakes are made..as far as talent evaluation.
4) Mo Acker..simply listen to his comments about Buzz on Senior ay..all that needs to be said..and..Buzz basically told him to quit if he was gonna keep puffing the kind..
5) Maymon - Does anyone doubt if Tim Maymon is a little crazy?  has a criminal record?  His son was getting 16 minutes a game as a freshman..but they weren't happy?  Please.  But, his recruitment no doubt helped in getting Vander Blue more interested in Buzz and MU
6) Newbill - A questionable decision..and both Buzz and newbills deserve some blame

So..your post is definitely intended to be inflammatory..andd don't try to hide behind it by making statements such as:  I'm not blaming Buzz for any of this stuff..or I'm not anti-Buzz, etc...so if you aren't blaming Buzz for any of this stuff..then why try to play a devils advocate role..and make something out of nothing?  Your post was lame.

[goodgreatgrand]

New Orleans? Ok, the University is nuts.
Mbawke? Ok, the kid is nuts.
Roseboro? Ok, the kid wasn't good enough.
Mac? Buzz was nuts, but apologized.
Mo Acker? Ok, the kid made a mistake.
Maymon? Ok, the family is nuts.
Newbill? Ok, the AAU coach is nuts.

Out of curiosity, who are some of the other coaches that have had a similar amount of "drama" over the course of the last 2 or so years?

[goodgreatgrand]

New Orleans? Ok, the University is nuts.
Mbawke? Ok, the kid is nuts.
Roseboro? Ok, the kid wasn't good enough.
Mac? Buzz was nuts, but apologized.
Mo Acker? Ok, the kid made a mistake.
Maymon? Ok, the family is nuts.
Newbill? Ok, the AAU coach is nuts.

Out of curiosity, who are some of the other coaches that have had a similar amount of "drama" over the course of the last 2 or so years?

Calhoun, maybe?

[Lennys Tap]

New Orleans? Ok, the University is nuts.
Mbawke? Ok, the kid is nuts.
Roseboro? Ok, the kid wasn't good enough.
Mac? Buzz was nuts, but apologized.
Mo Acker? Ok, the kid made a mistake.
Maymon? Ok, the family is nuts.
Newbill? Ok, the AAU coach is nuts.

Out of curiosity, who are some of the other coaches that have had a similar amount of "drama" over the course of the last 2 or so years?

Tom Crean

[Blackhat]

Many coaches oversign and there is a lot of roster turnover in today's college basketball from year to year.

These realities are here to stay most likely, so you need to realize coaches are coaches not priests and because a coach oversigns and tries to maximize their roster potential doesn't make them "nuts". 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Tom Crean

The potted plant was nuts.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

What's the point of your observation - trying create a fire where there isn't even really smoke?  You acknowledge that 6 of the above 7 incidents the other party was nuts.  Do you want Buzz to be Jesus Christ..a walking, living, perfect human being?  He messed up with Mac in the ehat of the moment, and apologized..not a big deal..as for the other incidents you emtnion you have:

1) A University that moved down to Division 3 after it couldn't properly fund a D-1 program..which is what Buzz alledged..and why he left..and the move to D-3 completely exonerates Buzz.
2)Mbawke - an accused rapist
3)Roseboro - Guilty of assult, and a 1.8ppg average at St. boneaventure - he was overmatched at MU..clearly..and the kid realized it and decided to transfer..better than rotting at the end of the bench..sometimes recruiting mistakes are made..as far as talent evaluation.
4) Mo Acker..simply listen to his comments about Buzz on Senior ay..all that needs to be said..and..Buzz basically told him to quit if he was gonna keep puffing the kind..
5) Maymon - Does anyone doubt if Tim Maymon is a little crazy?  has a criminal record?  His son was getting 16 minutes a game as a freshman..but they weren't happy?  Please.  But, his recruitment no doubt helped in getting Vander Blue more interested in Buzz and MU
6) Newbill - A questionable decision..and both Buzz and newbills deserve some blame

So..your post is definitely intended to be inflammatory..andd don't try to hide behind it by making statements such as:  I'm not blaming Buzz for any of this stuff..or I'm not anti-Buzz, etc...so if you aren't blaming Buzz for any of this stuff..then why try to play a devils advocate role..and make something out of nothing?  Your post was lame.

Easy, dude.

I'm just trying to make an honest observation and not be a homer.

Please don't blow a gasket.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Tom Crean

You are 100% correct, and he gets blasted for it.

I'm not saying Buzz should be ripped for this stuff.

I'm just trying not to be a fanboy.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Many coaches oversign and there is a lot of roster turnover in today's college basketball from year to year.

These realities are here to stay most likely, so you need to realize coaches are coaches not priests and because a coach oversigns and tries to maximize their roster potential doesn't make them "nuts". 

Never said Buzz was nuts, and I agree with you for the most part.

I've never claimed college coaches were saints/priests. For the most part they are highly motivated dudes with big egos. I get that.

The roster turnover stuff is a touchy subject I guess. Maybe that is the new reality in college hoops and has nothing to do with Buzz. I guess time will tell.

[kmwtrucks]

Roseboro, The mistake was made that Buzz never got a real chance to look at him before the early signing period and he jumped the gun on offering worrying that by the late period lots of guys would be jumping into the Mix.  Then he did not have a great senior year and then when he got onto campus Buzz was seeing and being told that he was overmatched at the Big East level.  Buzz deicded it was in MU's and Brett's best interest to move on then compared to after a year where he would have had to sit out a year before he could play.  I hope that buzz is a looks a little harder at player's before he lets them sign a LOI. DJ's situation as different.

[goodgreatgrand]

Many coaches oversign and there is a lot of roster turnover in today's college basketball from year to year.

Im not suggesting you are wrong, but I am curious who the coaches that oversign are. If there are "many" that do it every year, then who were some of the coaches that did it last year?

[RJax55]

Many coaches oversign and there is a lot of roster turnover in today's college basketball from year to year.

These realities are here to stay most likely, so you need to realize coaches are coaches not priests and because a coach oversigns and tries to maximize their roster potential doesn't make them "nuts". 

+1. Take a look around the conference, player movement happens at every school.

Also, the Mac radio incident, is a trivial issue at best. Plus, how is the Mo Acker situation nothing but a net positive for Buzz.

Acker is not following team rules, so Buzz kicks him off the team (Right move). Acker a few months later realizes his mistake and cleanups his act and Buzz gives him a second shot (Again IMO, right move. One with significant risk to Buzz if Acker flames out again). In the end, Acker has a very nice senior season, plays a important role on the team and graduates.

[NersEllenson]

You are 100% correct, and he gets blasted for it.

I'm not saying Buzz should be ripped for this stuff.

I'm just trying not to be a fanboy.

So basically you are insinuating that Buzz is partially responsible for the drama associated with:  the former universtity he coached at electing to go to D3 ball, an accused rapist brought in by the previous regime, a player with an assult and battery conviction and 1.8ppg average, a pot smoking player he inherited from the previous regime..that he told to take a hike for awhile, an overzealous father with a criminal record?  

And could you definte "fanboy?"  What is that?

[goodgreatgrand]

+1. Take a look around the conference, player movement happens at every school.

Jeez. Quite a few blanket statements this morning.

Gonzo is a nutjob and got fired. Norm Roberts sucked and got fired. DePaul is Div 2. Coaching changes create turnover. Calhoun has gone mad and his absences are starting to hurt recruiting. We have had neither a coaching change nor a coach that has lost his mind.