No Reason To Fuss

[Pakuni]

If you believe that someone at MU said that verbatim, on the record, I have some swampland to sell you.

If true, that spokesman should be fired immediately.

You were correct to doubt that statement was uttered by a MU spokesman. In fact, the piece's author has "updated" his story with the following:


(Update: I removed a portion of what I had previously attributed to the Marquette spokesman because he did not confirm that the reason the program released Newbill was because it needed Wilson more than him)  

[chapman]

You were correct to doubt that statement was uttered by a MU spokesman. In fact, the piece's author has "updated" his story with the following:


(Update: I removed a portion of what I had previously attributed to the Marquette spokesman because he did not confirm that the reason the program released Newbill was because it needed Wilson more than him)  

But...that was fact!  Surely the writer was up for a Pulitzer before that "misinterpretation"!  The way I see it, the redacted statement applies: if Wilson (or anyone else) doesn't become available, Newbill is on campus...maybe only for a year, maybe longer.  Was Newbill made fully aware that we have other needs and he could become cast aside prior to enrolling?  That's where each side has a different opinion on the matter.  I won't commit to one or the other, but I'll lean toward the IWB side of things and not the "I was dismissed because the principal was jealous of my success" side of things.

[mugrad99]

He broke the most important one...THE GOLDEN RULE.

Treat others and you would like to be treated

But you're right, he hasn't committed any NCAA violation.  For that matter, neither has John Calipari.

I thought we were supposed to be above all this.   Look his AAU coach today says it plain as day, we screwed the kid over.  He was committed to us and us to him....until a prettier girl came along and we dumped him.  You guys can spin this until the cows come home, but that's a crappy way to do business.

There will be additional comments later this week from several sources.   It's a shame that MU is stiffing this kid, even worse that we have folks thinking it's ok.  I didn't realize we turned into one of those schools.


"A Marquette spokesman confirmed Wednesday that Newbill had qualified academically and the coaching staff simply decided the program needed Wilson more than him."

The same intensity.  Are you going to retract that part of your response?

Teams used to stash kids at prep school all of the time. Purdue was known for doing this...Brad Miller comes to mind

[avid1010]

Chico's you're clearly calling IWB a liar, and saying his story is false?

[GGGG]

No, Chicos is (correctly) pointing out that IWB's story is Marquette's version of the events.

[Daniel]

You were correct to doubt that statement was uttered by a MU spokesman. In fact, the piece's author has "updated" his story with the following:


(Update: I removed a portion of what I had previously attributed to the Marquette spokesman because he did not confirm that the reason the program released Newbill was because it needed Wilson more than him)  

---
I was going to say that any spokesperson who would have uttered something as outrageous as this should NOT be a spokesperson for MU.

[DegenerateDish]

He broke the most important one...THE GOLDEN RULE.

Treat others and you would like to be treated

But you're right, he hasn't committed any NCAA violation.  For that matter, neither has John Calipari.

I thought we were supposed to be above all this.   Look his AAU coach today says it plain as day, we screwed the kid over.  He was committed to us and us to him....until a prettier girl came along and we dumped him.  You guys can spin this until the cows come home, but that's a crappy way to do business.

There will be additional comments later this week from several sources.   It's a shame that MU is stiffing this kid, even worse that we have folks thinking it's ok.  I didn't realize we turned into one of those schools.


"A Marquette spokesman confirmed Wednesday that Newbill had qualified academically and the coaching staff simply decided the program needed Wilson more than him."

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Memphis (under John Calipari) had to vacate their 38 win, 2008 Final 4/National Titel game appearance, due to infractions done under Cal's watch, no?

Buzz and MU don't have the NCAA knocking on their door for this. No NCAA rule was violated. Again, this is college basketball, not the boy scouts. Buzz Williams and Marquette basketball are in the business to win games, in a manner compliant within NCAA rules. MU is better today than they were a week ago. If Newbill is good enough, go to prep school for a year, continue to prove yourself, and if Newbill and MU still want to dance together, fine by me.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

It's part of the game.

Good luck DJ.

Welcome to MU Jamil!

[StillAWarrior]

"A Marquette spokesman confirmed Wednesday that Newbill had qualified academically and the coaching staff simply decided the program needed Wilson more than him."
---
I was going to say that any spokesperson who would have uttered something as outrageous as this should NOT be a spokesperson for MU.

But, strangely enough, it is roughly equivalent to the version of events that IWB describes.  I don't for a second believe that someone at Marquette made the alleged comment verbatim (and the article didn't indicate that it was a direct quote), but IWB's summary of what happened here could fairly be summed up as, "Newbill had qualified academically and the coaching staff simply decided the program needed Wilson more than him."  It sure sounds better the way IWB presented it, but it's essentially the same message.  In light of the fact that it is not attributed as a direct quote, I'm willing to accept that an MU spokesman uttered words to that effect -- although the later retraction suggests that the earlier comments were probably off the record.

Look, I think everyone here knows that this is exactly what happened -- Marquette did decide that it wanted Wilson more than it wanted Newbill.  That's not the issue.  The issue is whether Marquette was up front with Newbill about the fact that they thought he might not have a place in next year's class and that they were actively looking to sign another player which could leave Newbill off the team.

[mu-rara]

Does Gene Banks have any eligibility remaining?

That's going to the "way back" machine.  Good reference.

[NavinRJohnson]

Look, I think everyone here knows that this is exactly what happened -- Marquette did decide that it wanted Wilson more than it wanted Newbill.  That's not the issue.  The issue is whether Marquette was up front with Newbill about the fact that they thought he might not have a place in next year's class and that they were actively looking to sign another player which could leave Newbill off the team.

Exactly right, and the thing none of the artificially outraged individuals can seem to articulate, is what Buzz Williams has done during his time here that makes them more apt to take the word of a wannabe coach who was fired because someone was jealous of his success, posting on an internet message board, over MU's actual coach who has been a model representative of Marquette University. Is the fact that his name is not Tom Crean really that offensive to you?

[lurch91]

Imho, we (MU) should have given Newbill an unconditional release, allowing him to sign with a different BE team.

I think it would have helped Buzz, and MU, save face.

[GGGG]

Exactly right, and the thing none of the artificially outraged individuals can seem to articulate, is what Buzz Williams has done during his time here that makes them more apt to take the word of a wannabe coach who was fired because someone was jealous of his success, posting on an internet message board, over MU's actual coach who has been a model representative of Marquette University. Is the fact that his name is not Tom Crean really that offensive to you?

ARGHH...this isn't about Tom Crean or Damien Saunders.

This is about Buzz Williams and his *repeated* instances of miscommunication between himself and players during the recruiting process.  And its also not just the word of phillycoach, but we have *direct* quotes from Newbill himself on the philly.com article that was recently linked.

Stop being an apologist.  We make fun of them when they are Barry Bonds fans, etc.  Don't be one now.

[Litehouse]

Imho, we (MU) should have given Newbill an unconditional release, allowing him to sign with a different BE team.

I think it would have helped Buzz, and MU, save face.

It's not the release that's the problem, it's the Big East conference rule that a player can't sign with another team if they signed a NLI with a different conference team.  Most conferences have this rule.  UW appealed and won to get an exception to the same rule in the Big Ten when they picked up Brust from Iowa and dumped Markolf.

[NavinRJohnson]

This is about Buzz Williams and his *repeated* instances of miscommunication between himself and players during the recruiting process. 

What exactly are these *repeated* instances? If you say DJ Newbill, you are doing exactly what I suggested, and taking the word of the wannabe coach, over that of Buzz Williams. Please show me anywhere that DJ Newbill said anything to refute MU's version of things (via IWB).

Roseborro might be one example, but if you look at that situation, it seems to me they were both on the same page when he signed (thought he could play in the BE), and after he left (realized he wasn't going to play in the BE).

So where exactly are these repeated instances you speak of?

[NavinRJohnson]

It's not the release that's the problem, it's the Big East conference rule that a player can't sign with another team if they signed a NLI with a different conference team.  Most conferences have this rule.  UW appealed and won to get an exception to the same rule in the Big Ten when they picked up Brust from Iowa and dumped Markolf.

Agreed. I guess I would be surprised if another BE team is interested, but I'd be willing to bet if MU is allowed any input into an appeal for him to be able to do so, they would probably be supportive.

[StillAWarrior]

Exactly right, and the thing none of the artificially outraged individuals can seem to articulate, is what Buzz Williams has done during his time here that makes them more apt to take the word of a wannabe coach who was fired because someone was jealous of his success, posting on an internet message board, over MU's actual coach who has been a model representative of Marquette University. Is the fact that his name is not Tom Crean really that offensive to you?

Not sure if those parts are directed at me or not since I don't think that from my perspective this is even remotely related to anything having to do with Tom Crean.  But, I'll tell you where I am coming from.  I'm not taking PhillyCoach's word about anything.  I think he has, to a large extent, been discredited and was not an insider in this process.  But, I do note that DJ and his AAU coach also have said that DJ was caught off guard by this development.  That suggests one of three things:  1) they are lying; 2) there was a miscommunication between parties and DJ got his hopes up; or 3) DJ got totally screwed over by Buzz.

I'm very, very comfortable that Number 2 is the answer here.  As always, the truth lies in the middle.  DJ hoped to go to Marquette and believed that at the end of the day he would be there.  He's really disappointed that it didn't work out.  Buzz told DJ that they were still recruiting and it might not work out, but left the door open a crack which allowed DJ to get his hopes up (even more so as the summer progressed).

I'm not sure I think this is a good recruiting practice.  I don't really think it's illegal, unethical or immoral, but I just am not sure it's a good way to do things.  I'd love to have five minutes to sit down with Buzz and see if he would do things differently given another chance.

[GGGG]

What exactly are these *repeated* instances? If you say DJ Newbill, you are doing exactly what I suggested, and taking the word of the wannabe coach, over that of Buzz Williams. Please show me anywhere that DJ Newbill said anything to refute MU's version of things (via IWB).

Roseborro might be one example, but if you look at that situation, it seems to me they were both on the same page when he signed (thought he could play in the BE), and after he left (realized he wasn't going to play in the BE).

So where exactly are these repeated instances you speak of?

Newbill, Roseboro, Maymon.  We had direct quote from Maymon about what his role would be with the team immediately after he committed, and those concerns were brought up here at the time.  When that role was not fulfilled, the problems started to occur.  I am not saying that Tim Maymon isn't primarily to blame, but communication can be an issue.

Newbill hasn't said anything to directly refute IWB's version, but he hasn't asked to.  However, if this was properly communicated from the beginning, one would think that he wouldn't be this pissed.

[GGGG]

Not sure if those parts are directed at me or not since I don't think that from my perspective this is even remotely related to anything having to do with Tom Crean.  But, I'll tell you where I am coming from.  I'm not taking PhillyCoach's word about anything.  I think he has, to a large extent, been discredited and was not an insider in this process.  But, I do note that DJ and his AAU coach also have said that DJ was caught off guard by this development.  That suggests one of three things:  1) they are lying; 2) there was a miscommunication between parties and DJ got his hopes up; or 3) DJ got totally screwed over by Buzz.

I'm very, very comfortable that Number 2 is the answer here.  As always, the truth lies in the middle.  DJ hoped to go to Marquette and believed that at the end of the day he would be there.  He's really disappointed that it didn't work out.  Buzz told DJ that they were still recruiting and it might not work out, but left the door open a crack which allowed DJ to get his hopes up (even more so as the summer progressed).

I'm not sure I think this is a good recruiting practice.  I don't really think it's illegal, unethical or immoral, but I just am not sure it's a good way to do things.  I'd love to have five minutes to sit down with Buzz and see if he would do things differently given another chance.

I agree with this.  And #2 has been a rcurring issue.

[goodgreatgrand]

"Major turnover on Marquette roster."

On espn college basketball page. Anybody have Insider?

[NavinRJohnson]

Not sure if those parts are directed at me or not

Either am I.

I'm not sure I think this is a good recruiting practice.  I don't really think it's illegal, unethical or immoral, but I just am not sure it's a good way to do things.  

Its funny you say that, because as I was thinking about this last night, I came to the conclusion that this type of thing may just become somewhat of the norm, not just at MU, but across College BB, whre you have an extra scholarship, and some potential high quality recruits to fill it, but with nothing guaranteed, you sign a kid who you know can always fall back to a mid-major school as your back up plan. Again, if that reality/intention is communicated to the player (as I believe it was in this case), I don't see much wrong with it. The player and his family/advisors can decide to sign the LOI or not.

[NavinRJohnson]

I agree with this.  And #2 has been a rcurring issue.

What are they, and who's to blame? Is the message inaccurate/dishonest, or is the player choosing to hear what he wants to hear?

[Pakuni]

Imho, we (MU) should have given Newbill an unconditional release, allowing him to sign with a different BE team.

I think it would have helped Buzz, and MU, save face.

That's not an option. It's a Big East rule, not a Marquette rule. Marquette certainly could go to bat for him if he appeals the Big East rule, but first DJ would need a Big East offer.

[StillAWarrior]

However, if this was properly communicated from the beginning, one would think that he wouldn't be this pissed.

What I'm wondering is whether Newbill is pissed, or whether he's really disappointed.  In one of the articles he sounded more disappointed than pissed.  Even if IWB's version is 100% gospel truth, I'd expect that he'd be very disappointed -- and honestly, maybe even a little pissed.  If IWB's version is way off base, I'd expect him to be very, very pissed.

I hope this comes through in the interview Forster does.

[pbiflyer]

The same intensity.  Are you going to retract that part of your response?

Looks like the answer to that would be  NO!