No Reason To Fuss

[DegenerateDish]

I've been reading through these threads, went to the Wisco board, trying to figure out what all the fuss is about. There's two accounts to the story, truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

I'm a Marquette basketball fan, at the end of the day (without cheating to do it) I want Marquette to be able to put the best possible basketball product out there. Marquette basketball is better today with Jamil Wilson, than it was yesterday with Newbill. That works for me. Marquette basketball is on it's way to having one of the deepest rosters I can remember, even better if Wilson can convince the NCAA to allow him to play this year.

Did Newbill get a raw deal? Maybe, maybe not. If he has talent and can qualify academically, someone will take him. He had a LOI, but never filled out the proper paperwork to enroll. If MU used that to their advantage to get better as a team, I have no problem with it. At the end of the day it's Buzz Williams job to win basketball games, not make everyone happy.

Coaches leave programs hanging all the time (Tom...cough cough...Crean), players leave schools all the time to find a better opportunity (Blankson anyone?). MU didn't violate any rules today, Crean didn't violate any rules when he left MU, nor did Blankson. This is college basketball, not the boy scouts.

I got a kick out of reading the holier than thou Wisconsin board regarding this situation with MU. It'll be interesting to see next season when a Blue/Wilson MU team head to the Kohl Center and beat up the Badgers. I look forward to the "at least Bo keeps his word" threads over there. As if that is some sort of consolation prize for losing to a MU team made up of prominent in state players.

Good luck to Newbill. His minutes at MU probably would not have been what he would have liked. If that was going to be the case, and this gives him an opportunity to succeed elsewhere, I'd wish him the best of luck.

[PGsHeroes32]

exactly, some people got mad at me when i said i hoped the player to leave for gardner would be mbao. I feel bad for guys like mbao and gardner, but just like you I want the best team possible.


Wilson whether or not he gets lucky and is allowed to play this year will help us greatly for 2011 when we should have a legit team that noone will want to play and a real tourney threat.

Thats what i want. A sweet 16 and more. Wilson gives us that better chance

We have enough guards.

[goodgreatgrand]

IN all honesty, I was giving Buzz the benefit of the doubt. And I still do.... However, I was reading through some of the garbage on the jsonline site and came across this:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Did-Marquette-put-winning-before-ethics-by-cutti?urn=ncaab,252690&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter"

Well, the head coach's last name rang a bell with me and sure enough...HC Larry Waiters is the uncle of standout recruit, Dion Waiters (#27 overall on Scout and incoming freshman at Syracuse). Larry is an AAU coach in South Philly and apparently pulls some weight. So, what's the over-under on how many years it takes before MU lands a Philly recruit? Man, this is not good. Internally, things may be settled...but we cant control how people (future recruits, especially) think about this program at this point. Its just damage control now ---no matter what the true facts are.

I confirmed on my own that Dion Waiters is, in fact, the 27th ranked player and is also from Philadelphia. It's true that this is now a matter of perception....not internally, but externally. 

[avid1010]

The kid signed a letter of intent correct?  So if he wanted to stick it to Buzz he could hold Buzz to that contract and show up at MU next year?

I'll take IWB's word for what happened, and I sincerely hope that's the truth.  Both he and Buzz have a lot to lose if they're proven to be full of crap.  But to say that what Buzz did was acceptable under any circumstances or in any situation is BS.  I'd like to see those stating that sign a year long contract and then have their boss call and say they need to resign and not collect their salary for the year.  

[NavinRJohnson]

So, what's the over-under on how many years it takes before MU lands a Philly recruit? Man, this is not good.

I know, if that Philadelphia pipeline we have been milking all these years dries up, man, we are screwed.

[avid1010]

IN all honesty, I was giving Buzz the benefit of the doubt. And I still do.... However, I was reading through some of the garbage on the jsonline site and came across this:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Did-Marquette-put-winning-before-ethics-by-cutti?urn=ncaab,252690&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter"

Well, the head coach's last name rang a bell with me and sure enough...HC Larry Waiters is the uncle of standout recruit, Dion Waiters (#27 overall on Scout and incoming freshman at Syracuse). Larry is an AAU coach in South Philly and apparently pulls some weight. So, what's the over-under on how many years it takes before MU lands a Philly recruit? Man, this is not good. Internally, things may be settled...but we cant control how people (future recruits, especially) think about this program at this point. Its just damage control now ---no matter what the true facts are.

No matter how this thing went down, I'm sure Buzz weighed the pro's and con's of this move prior to making it and he obviously felt it was worth the damage it could do to future recruits in Philly.  If Buzz is as honest and ethical as he says he's probably not worrying about it anyhow.

[4everwarriors]

I know, if that Philadelphia pipeline we have been milking all these years dries up, man, we are screwed.

Does Gene Banks have any eligibility remaining?

[DegenerateDish]

Until I hear Buzz Williams committed an NCAA violation/infraction, I can't decipher what rules he broke today. If Jamil Wilson next season or in 2011/2012 hits a 15 foot game winner to beat Notre Dame in South Bend, are people going to be saying "I enjoyed the game, but would rather have Newbill here".

Hell no.

We live in a "what have you done for me lately" world. I guarantee the first big game Wilson has, we'll see threads stating "Thank you Buzz for getting Wilson here!".

And where exactly is this recruiting pipeline from Philly??? We recruited two 2 star level recruits from the area. Hardly going to make or break things.

[warriorfred]

Have to admit, I've become more than a bit cynical about college athletics the past few years.  I'm not slamming MU, DJ, Wilson, or anyone else.  This episode seems to be normal for big-time college athletics.  I sincerely hope it works out for all parties, but cannot get too upset.

I believe the word I am looking for is "meh."

[goodgreatgrand]

I think some of you are missing the point. How many kids from Philly did we recruit as a member of CUSA. One of the HUGE benefits of being a member of the BE is that it opened recruiting channels to the biggest hotbeds of talent in America (Philly included). We're new to this game and its a bit early to burn bridges, IMHO. Id rather have one more option than one less option.

[77ncaachamps]

Whatever the mess that was caused by this (and Roseboro), Philly will be ours.

Because WINNING heals EVERYTHING.

[HoopsMalone]

Buzz has proved to be honest.  You will never have to guess what he is thinking.  Recruits will know that.

[avid1010]

Until I hear Buzz Williams committed an NCAA violation/infraction, I can't decipher what rules he broke today. If Jamil Wilson next season or in 2011/2012 hits a 15 foot game winner to beat Notre Dame in South Bend, are people going to be saying "I enjoyed the game, but would rather have Newbill here".

Hell no.

You sound like a Kentucky fan, although many of them aren't too thrilled with trying to win while pulling crap either.  Like I said, I'm taking IWB's words as true which would make Buzz seem ethical in the matter, but I'm not interested in writing this crap off to a "that's just the way it is" excuse.  If it turns out Buzz screwed this kid over, and Wilson hits a game winner, I'm willing to bet someone will mention DJ within 10 minutes on this board.  

[NavinRJohnson]

Buzz has proved to be honest.  You will never have to guess what he is thinking.  Recruits will know that.

Agreed. I don't care what city a kid is from, if he's interested in MU because of what they have to offer, including the Head Coach, the Great DJ Newbill incident of 2010 is not going to keep him away.

[GGGG]

The kid signed a letter of intent correct?  So if he wanted to stick it to Buzz he could hold Buzz to that contract and show up at MU next year?

Not if he's not officially admitted.

[HoopsMalone]

He may not have applied because they really had a wait and see approach to the recruitment.  He did not know if he was going to Marquette or prep school and just didn't apply yet. 

It sounds like Buzz was nothing but upfront with Newbill. 

It'd be like if you asked the hottest girl to the dance and she said she would go with you unless a football player asks.  You say yes because it is a chance to go to the dance with the hottest girl.  The football player asks the hottest girl and you are crushed because it was your chance.  In the end, you knew this was possible the whole time.  You can still be disappointed.

I honestly hope that the prep route and to MU in one year is an option for DJ. 

[ErickJD08]

I feel the same as most here.  As long as we did not have any violations, get it done Buzz.

[GGGG]

It sounds like Buzz was nothing but upfront with Newbill. 

Well, only if the only account that you believe is MU's via IWB.

Life is shades of gray.  This is no different.

[DegenerateDish]

You sound like a Kentucky fan, although many of them aren't too thrilled with trying to win while pulling crap either.  Like I said, I'm taking IWB's words as true which would make Buzz seem ethical in the matter, but I'm not interested in writing this crap off to a "that's just the way it is" excuse.  If it turns out Buzz screwed this kid over, and Wilson hits a game winner, I'm willing to bet someone will mention DJ within 10 minutes on this board.  

I sound like a fan of a basketball team I care about. Last I checked Coach Cal has had to deal with the NCAA before, I don't recall Buzz Williams having any violations on his record.

If Buzz did not violate any rules, or cheat in any way, and Wilson has a great career at MU, then I would suspect very few will bring up Newbill. He's not wearing an MU uniform, so move on.

[NersEllenson]

I think some of you are missing the point. How many kids from Philly did we recruit as a member of CUSA. One of the HUGE benefits of being a member of the BE is that it opened recruiting channels to the biggest hotbeds of talent in America (Philly included). We're new to this game and its a bit early to burn bridges, IMHO. Id rather have one more option than one less option.

Did "we" recruit - meaning your team - Syracuse?  I don't have the data on that - why don't you tell us how many Philly kids the Orange have recruited in the past 2 years?  Also, once Buzz allows a dude back on the MU team that punches his girlfriend - see Jim Boeheim and Eric Devendouche - at that point I will then begin to concern myself with Buzz's ethics and his perception.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Until I hear Buzz Williams committed an NCAA violation/infraction, I can't decipher what rules he broke today.

He broke the most important one...THE GOLDEN RULE.

Treat others and you would like to be treated

But you're right, he hasn't committed any NCAA violation.  For that matter, neither has John Calipari.

I thought we were supposed to be above all this.   Look his AAU coach today says it plain as day, we screwed the kid over.  He was committed to us and us to him....until a prettier girl came along and we dumped him.  You guys can spin this until the cows come home, but that's a crappy way to do business.

There will be additional comments later this week from several sources.   It's a shame that MU is stiffing this kid, even worse that we have folks thinking it's ok.  I didn't realize we turned into one of those schools.


"A Marquette spokesman confirmed Wednesday that Newbill had qualified academically and the coaching staff simply decided the program needed Wilson more than him."

[Pakuni]

He broke the most important one...THE GOLDEN RULE.

Treat others and you would like to be treated

Wait, wait, wait .... the guy who defends Tom Crean through thick and thin is ripping Buzz for violating THE GOLDEN RULE?
Apparently TC decided that his players and bosses wanted to learn he was bailing on them through ESPN.
Classic.

I don't mean to turn this into a Buzz vs TC thread (though I'm afraid I might have already), but here's yet another sterling example of inconsistency from our foremost TC defender.

thought we were supposed to be above all this.   Look his AAU coach today says it plain as day, we screwed the kid over. 

Well then, it's settled. AAU coaches are a paragon for truthiness. And no doubt he knows the entire story. Him being an AAU coach, and all.

He was committed to us and us to him....until a prettier girl came along and we dumped him.  You guys can spin this until the cows come home, but that's a crappy way to do business.

By all accounts this is true, and it's a bad way of doing business. What's not so clear - and what will determine whether its dishonest or just bad - is whether DJ was aware he could/would be dumped if a prettier girl came along. If so - and there's some evidence to suggest he was - then it's unfortunate, but he rolled the dice and came up craps. If not, then this is bad form by Buzz.

I didn't realize we turned into one of those schools.

One of what schools?
The kind of school that dumps players in late August because it's suddenly determined their grades weren't in order? Because, you know, there's no way his grades could have been known before then.
I'm getting old and losing my memory, so maybe I missed it, but I don't recall you being quite so morally outraged when that happened to Damian Saunders.
Weird, huh?

[MUfan12]

"A Marquette spokesman confirmed Wednesday that Newbill had qualified academically and the coaching staff simply decided the program needed Wilson more than him."

If you believe that someone at MU said that verbatim, on the record, I have some swampland to sell you.

If true, that spokesman should be fired immediately.

[El Duderino]

If it does come out that Buzz did basically just cast Newbill aside for Wilson, the Wilson kid better end up being significantly better than Newbill ends up becoming elsewhere to make up for the amount of negative publicity the issue will bring on Buzz.

Not only that, Buzz is always talking about how wins and losses are second on his list to players thinking he helped make them better young men. That comes of more hollow to me if Buzz did basically toss aside DJ for a more skilled recruit.

[ErickJD08]

Chico, I agree with you to a certain degree.  I know this board are loaded with people saying we are DEEEP.  And there were people out there saying Crean left "the cupboard full".  I still don't think this team is DEEP or stacked or whatever you want to call it.  We have two guys who have proven that they can play night in and night out; DJO and Jimmy.  We still need players.  Buzz has a job to do in an industry where you don't get many mulligans and excuses aren't accepted.  As long as the guy isn't breaking rules, let the guy do his job.  Guess what, if we were able to get Barnes or some other stud in the program, someone else would get booted too.  

And honestly, this comes with the territory.  Buzz has landed some home run recruits.  Why?  Because does exactly what he says he does.  He says he is ALWAYS recruiting.  And now, it should be even more clear.... THE MAN IS ALWAYS RECRUITING.  I know this situation looks bad but situation is simple.  If you have a quality player willing to come in, do you take him and pass on another?  Of course you take the player, because you will help the program and the player will help you do a better job.  This whole thing has not changed my opinion of Buzz.