Let's Think Rationally About This...

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Not exactly. The statement was made previously, of which I agree, that we don't have the experienced players to win close games at the end. Hard to argue that point, isn't it. Buzz has been on the job about 460 days. The previous coach left him with exactly 3 seniors this year. Two of those guys were never starters. And, it can be intelligently argued do not possess the talent necessary to compete effectively in the BE. How many Juniors and Sophomores did Tommy leave behind for Buzz to build with? Why do you think Williams has been trying to even out the classes?
Buzz is bringing in good talent, but they're inexperienced. It takes time. Junior college ball doesn't subsitute for Big East experience. If you're going to pee with the big boys, get 2 hands around the old gregory and go for it. Crean's a one-handed  3rd grader pisser.

OK, let's just clear the air about "what was left".

Mbakwe
Taylor
Christopherson
Williams

They all left after Buzz became coach. Now, I don't think that it's Buzz's fault that they left. I DON'T BLAME BUZZ FOR THESE PLAYERS LEAVING. But, I think the theory that "Crean left the cabinet empty" is just a convenient shot for you guys to take.  

Crean had players on campus and players coming in that wanted to play for him. When he left, they left. I don't think that's his fault. It's just a fact of life.

If Buzz Williams left tomorrow, some of his players might leave. It's just a fact of life.

Now, as far as Buzz having an inexperienced roster and not having players that can close out games, I agree with you. This is clearly a rebuilding season, and MU is going to take some hard knocks. Nothing Buzz can really do about that.

BUT, I think it's a double standard when I see people giving Buzz credit for "releasing Wes Matthews" in his 1 season as head coach, and then read that Buzz doesn't deserve any criticism in his second season.

Buzz can have a huge impact on Wes in 1 season (and get credit for it), but absolutely can have no impact on the players this season? (and can receive no criticism?)

It's just too convenient.

I like Buzz. I'm optimistic for the future. But, some of you guys are making excuses before anybody even criticizes.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Impossible to say for sure....

HOWEVER...I will say this again, many thought that TT would have found a way to get to Kansas, even if Crean would've stayed.

I'd love to hear how.  The only way would be to transfer and sit out a year.  Hurley provided Crean several players in the past, they had a strong relationship.  I don't think that would have happened.

[GOMU1104]

Chicos...I really don't care what you choose to believe.

I'm telling you, that many felt that TT wouldve gotten to Kansas eventually...be it through transfering or getting released from his LOI.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos...I really don't care what you choose to believe.

I'm telling you, that many felt that TT wouldve gotten to Kansas eventually...be it through transfering or getting released from his LOI.

He would have had to transfer, no coach in their right mind is going to let a kid out of a LOI when there hasn't been a coaching change.  That allows the inmates to run the asylum and no coach is going to do that.  Then the question becomes, would KU wait another year for the kid which begs another question.  Perhaps.

I didn't say I didn't believe you, but the only way I see that as a possibility would be via a transfer, not with a simple release.

[bma725]

I'd love to hear how.  The only way would be to transfer and sit out a year.  Hurley provided Crean several players in the past, they had a strong relationship.  I don't think that would have happened.

Hurley had never provided Crean any players, you are confusing Bob Hurley with his son Danny.  TT would have been the first St. Anthony's player at MU since Mandy Johnson.

[GOMU1104]

I'd love to hear how.  The only way would be to transfer and sit out a year.  Hurley provided Crean several players in the past, they had a strong relationship.  I don't think that would have happened.

Nope...TT was the only TC commit that played for Bob Hurley at St. Anthonys

Cubi and Burke played for Dan Hurley at St. Benedicts.

[Lennys Tap]

This from the guy that didn't understand that alma mater refers to more than your undergraduate institution.   

And you may want to look up the word beg and what the definition is there and tell me how I'm wrong.

Thanks

Here's a crumb trail for you.....  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/begged

You're right Chico. In your world (and only in your world) "asking" someone or "allowing" someone are synonymous with "begging" someone. I'd love to get some video of you "begging" one of your children to pass the potatoes. Must have been pretty funny watching you "begging" women to go out with you back in the day. I'm sure your parents always taught you to "beg politely". Your knees must constantly ache.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're right Chico. In your world (and only in your world) "asking" someone or "allowing" someone are synonymous with "begging" someone. I'd love to get some video of you "begging" one of your children to pass the potatoes. Must have been pretty funny watching you "begging" women to go out with you back in the day. I'm sure your parents always taught you to "beg politely". Your knees must constantly ache.

You obviously didn't read the definition or don't understand that words have meanings, often many of them.  You seem narrowly focused, like you were with "alma mater".  Beg can mean getting on your knees and throwing yourself on the floor hoping they do something or it can have quite a different meaning that you obviously didn't understand.  I'm glad you have learned that "beg" means more than just implore, which is obviously the meaning you have tied to the word. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Hurley had never provided Crean any players, you are confusing Bob Hurley with his son Danny.  TT would have been the first St. Anthony's player at MU since Mandy Johnson.

I stand corrected....thank you

[Hards Alumni]

You obviously didn't read the definition or don't understand that words have meanings, often many of them.

except you do this back pedal on this kind of stuff all the time when it best fits your argument.

[ChicosBailBonds]

except you do this back pedal kind of stuff all the time when it best fits your argument.

Much like your global warming  climate change arguments?

[Lennys Tap]

OK, let's just clear the air about "what was left".

Mbakwe
Taylor
Christopherson
Williams

They all left after Buzz became coach. Now, I don't think that it's Buzz's fault that they left. I DON'T BLAME BUZZ FOR THESE PLAYERS LEAVING. But, I think the theory that "Crean left the cabinet empty" is just a convenient shot for you guys to take.  

Crean had players on campus and players coming in that wanted to play for him. When he left, they left. I don't think that's his fault. It's just a fact of life.

If Buzz Williams left tomorrow, some of his players might leave. It's just a fact of life.

Now, as far as Buzz having an inexperienced roster and not having players that can close out games, I agree with you. This is clearly a rebuilding season, and MU is going to take some hard knocks. Nothing Buzz can really do about that.

BUT, I think it's a double standard when I see people giving Buzz credit for "releasing Wes Matthews" in his 1 season as head coach, and then read that Buzz doesn't deserve any criticism in his second season.

Buzz can have a huge impact on Wes in 1 season (and get credit for it), but absolutely can have no impact on the players this season? (and can receive no criticism?)

It's just too convenient.

I like Buzz. I'm optimistic for the future. But, some of you guys are making excuses before anybody even criticizes.

Mbakwe had decided to tranfer BEFORE Crean quit. Buzz talked him out of it but only temporarily. Crean certainly didn't leave Williams behind - he took him with him (if only for a year). Taylor got a "get out of jail free" card when Crean bolted, giving him the opportunity to play at his dream school(Kansas). You are right about Chritopherson, but I"d hardly consider him the stuff of a "full cupboard".

[Hards Alumni]

Much like your global warming  climate change arguments?

except that I never backpedaled or debated the meaning of a word that everyone knows.

[ChicosBailBonds]

except that I never backpedaled or debated the meaning of a word that everyone knows.

Obviously you don't know the meaning of the word since the definitions are clear....you guys are just tied to one of the meanings.  I'm sorry that you didn't score that well in the verbal part of the SAT.   

[Lennys Tap]

You obviously didn't read the definition or don't understand that words have meanings, often many of them.  You seem narrowly focused, like you were with "alma mater".  Beg can mean getting on your knees and throwing yourself on the floor hoping they do something or it can have quite a different meaning that you obviously didn't understand.  I'm glad you have learned that "beg" means more than just implore, which is obviously the meaning you have tied to the word.  

So in your world beg = ask, at least when it covers your ass but not in any of the examples I cited. Convenient and phony. Business as usual.

[Hards Alumni]

Obviously you don't know the meaning of the word since the definitions are clear....you guys are just tied to one of the meanings.  I'm sorry that you didn't score that well in the verbal part of the SAT.  

context Chicos.  Definitions, and their applications are derived from context.

Just because you find a definition in the dictionary, does not make it applicable to the situation you are using.

For example: If I called you gay, I would not expect you to think that I meant you were happy and playful.

[Lennys Tap]

Obviously you don't know the meaning of the word since the definitions are clear....you guys are just tied to one of the meanings.  I'm sorry that you didn't score that well in the verbal part of the SAT.   

Keep digging. Can you hear people speaking Chinese yet?

[ChicosBailBonds]

context Chicos.  Definitions, and their applications are derived from context.

Just because you find a definition in the dictionary, does not make it applicable to the situation you are using.

For example: If I called you gay, I would not expect you to think that I meant you were happy and playful.

I am gay

[ChicosBailBonds]

Keep digging. Can you hear people speaking Chinese yet?

I speak some Japanese, not Chinese....but I'll try to keep an ear out.


Maybe I'll get a degree at UCLA in Chinese....can I call that an Alma Mater or do I have to go with only meanings of words you know?  LOL

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Mbakwe had decided to tranfer BEFORE Crean quit. Buzz talked him out of it but only temporarily. Crean certainly didn't leave Williams behind - he took him with him (if only for a year). Taylor got a "get out of jail free" card when Crean bolted, giving him the opportunity to play at his dream school(Kansas). You are right about Chritopherson, but I"d hardly consider him the stuff of a "full cupboard".

Fact: Several players transferred / ask for a release from their LOI after TC left.

Whose fault is that?

Well, it's not Buzz Williams' fault as he just has to play the hand he was dealt.

However, you guys keep pinning all of this on Crean. My point is that if Crean stayed, he would have had a lot of talent coming in. They left because he left. Happens all of the time in college sports.

At this point, several guys around here still talk about the "ghost of TC" and how he's still somehow screwing MU.

Buzz Williams is the coach of MU, win or lose. When he wins, he will get the credit (not TC) and when he loses, he should receive the criticism (not TC).

That's fair, right?

I bet if MU had won on Saturday there wouldn't be any posts around here thanking TC for the big win. But, when MU loses, it's because of TC.

Just seems to convenient.

[Lennys Tap]

I speak some Japanese, not Chinese....but I'll try to keep an ear out.


Maybe I'll get a degree at UCLA in Chinese....can I call that an Alma Mater or do I have to go with only meanings of words you know?  LOL

Based on the definition you posted you'll have to earn a doctorate rather than an "advanced degree" like the ones you have from IU and Kansas. But I'd give anything for a photo in your freshman beanie.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Fact: Several players transferred / ask for a release from their LOI after TC left.

Whose fault is that?

Well, it's not Buzz Williams' fault as he just has to play the hand he was dealt.

However, you guys keep pinning all of this on Crean. My point is that if Crean stayed, he would have had a lot of talent coming in. They left because he left. Happens all of the time in college sports.

At this point, several guys around here still talk about the "ghost of TC" and how he's still somehow screwing MU.

Buzz Williams is the coach of MU, win or lose. When he wins, he will get the credit (not TC) and when he loses, he should receive the criticism (not TC).

That's fair, right?

I bet if MU had won on Saturday there wouldn't be any posts around here thanking TC for the big win. But, when MU loses, it's because of TC.

Just seems to convenient.

Don't you realize the "ghost of TC" will be around forever, that is until it's gone (which is determined by the results that fit their argument).   That's how it works in some minds around here. 

Some people are entirely incapable of appreciating what both coaches did (or are doing)....why, I have no idea but it is clear they are incapable of it.  Sad.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Based on the definition you posted you'll have to earn a doctorate rather than an "advanced degree" like the ones you have from IU and Kansas. But I'd give anything for a photo in your freshman beanie.

Here's the beanie picture I could find




I also found one of you at the computer

[Lennys Tap]

Don't you realize the "ghost of TC" will be around forever, that is until it's gone (which is determined by the results that fit their argument).   That's how it works in some minds around here. 

Some people are entirely incapable of appreciating what both coaches did (or are doing)....why, I have no idea but it is clear they are incapable of it.  Sad.

The "ghost of TC" will be gone at MU in a couple of years. Same for the "ghost of KS" at Indiana.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The "ghost of TC" will be gone at MU in a couple of years. Same for the "ghost of KS" at Indiana.

Is the ghost of TC going to make appearances after wins, or just after losses?

Oh, and I couldn't care less about whatever is going on at IU. I'm an MU fan, and this is an MU board.