Let's Think Rationally About This...

[4everwarriors]

Here we go again. Repeat after me, "Basketball is a big man's game." Better yet, write it on the board 500 times.

Name the last NCAA Champion whose starters were no taller than 6'6".

[El Duderino]

Even with the missed free throws in West Virginia, there was some bad luck in that loss. That game winner Butler made was a tough shot, one he'd miss more than he'd make if he took the same shot a dozen times. The possession before that, Ebanks dribbles the ball off his own leg and it pops right back to him before he dunks it. In today's game, all Butler has to do is attack the rim immediately instead of looking for contact and we are up a point with only 3 seconds left.

Obviously Marquette has done some things poorly to themselves late in both games that contributed heavily to each loss, but it would be nice if they also caught a break late in close games once in awhile. Have an opposing player actually miss one of these tough shots they always end up making even if our players make some mistakes. It would be nice for once in a close game to be able to say like the Nova kids could say today, whew, thank god so and so player missed that last shot.

[GOMU1104]

Here we go again. Repeat after me, "Basketball is a big man's game." Better yet, write it on the board 500 times.

Name the last NCAA Champion whose starters were no taller than 6'6".

You are college basketball is a guards game. Your first post was spot on, this one reeks of stupidity.

Yes, the NCAA Champion/best team in the country will have a good inside presence...but collectively...college basketball is a GUARDS game.  

[GOMU1104]

Getting the two BE ready players with the open scholarships is the key.  Where will they come from.

The odds off Buzz finding a Big East ready player for next year are pretty low.  If JM does not come back, our inside game will consist of Butler, Fulce, O'tule, Mbao, and EWill.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Here we go again. Repeat after me, "Basketball is a big man's game." Better yet, write it on the board 500 times.

Name the last NCAA Champion whose starters were no taller than 6'6".

Repeat after me, name a NCAA champion who didn't have an outstanding point guard.

Besides, we're not talking about being NCAA champions, we're talking about being competitive in DI at a high level, which can be done with great guards if you don't have great bigs.

Are you saying that Cubillan and Acker are better than TT and we wouldn't be that much better with TT?  Come on

Have a great point guard in college and you can win....this is why so many HOF coaches say college basketball is a guards game.

[El Duderino]

I believe that was the only one....but he left him with a guard that starts currently for the #1 team in the country.  In my mind, our weakest play right now is at the point guard position which is the MOST IMPORTANT position in college basketball.

Height is wonderful, but you can win without height in college.

Big difference between leaving a player already on the roster and a high school commit who are more prone to change their mind once a head coach leaves.

Plus, Buzz did sign a highly recruited PG who likely would be starting if yet another bad luck injury hadn't ended his season.

I'm sure there have been a few other teams hit very hard by injuries the last few years, but the number of serious injuries to hit recruits of Buzz is ridiculous. It's been rare for one of the kids to just say strain a quad or twist an ankle. Instead they all seem to get out for the year injuries and/or have their basketball career ended before it could start like in the case of Liam.

Without the terrible injury luck, we very well could of had Liam and Chris Otule giving us minutes in the paint this year and Junior Cadougan starting at PG. That's a devastating trio of injuries for a team that was already facing losing Jerel, Wes, and Dominic.

[Niv Berkowitz]

I agree with the original post 100%. Yeah, it's frustrating to lose the last two games, but I'm also a realist on this season. They are coming up just short with a lineup that doesn't exactly scream top-of-the-big-east. I'm still optimistic on how this year turns out, but also excited about next year...big time.

One last thing re: today's game....Scottie Reynolds is great and that was a tough friggin' shot he hit at the end.

[4everwarriors]

Not sure what the goals of posters, then, is on this board. I prefer to compete for the NCAA Championship. BTW, Crean gifted us with both Cubillan and Acker.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Big difference between leaving a player already on the roster and a high school commit who are more prone to change their mind once a head coach leaves.

I don't disagree with you, but the same thing will happen when Buzz leaves....the recruits he has will go elsewhere.  It's not that the cupboard is bare, it is simply a matter of the players wanting to play for that coach or not wanting to play for school he signed with if that coach isn't there.  Rest assured, it will happen when Buzz leaves, too.  Just the nature of the beast.

And yes, we've had a terrible amount of bad luck that goes beyond just the last two Buzz years.  We've had bad injury luck the last 5 or 6 years.  Diener, McNeal, Liam, Junior, DJ, etc, etc  It's been very unfortunate.

[GOMU1104]

Not sure what the goals of posters, then, is on this board. I prefer to compete for the NCAA Championship. BTW, Crean gifted us with both Cubillan and Acker.

Just admit that college basketball is a GUARDS game, like any intelligent basketball observer can see...and maybe you will earn back a little bit of the respect you earned with your initial post.

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny man, the year is only 2 days old. Give me more props. How 'bout "post of the decade?"

2 down, 363 to go. You may go wire to wire but I don't want you to rest on your laurels.

[El Duderino]

I don't disagree with you, but the same thing will happen when Buzz leaves....the recruits he has will go elsewhere.  It's not that the cupboard is bare, it is simply a matter of the players wanting to play for that coach or not wanting to play for school he signed with if that coach isn't there.  Rest assured, it will happen when Buzz leaves, too.  Just the nature of the beast.

Yes that it common which lead to the end result of the cupboard being bare at both inside players and at PG, so Buzz was left with only spare parts at the PG position. From there Buzz did the best thing he could possibly do, he went out and landed a top 10 point guard recruit. Unfortunately Junior got hurt.

That's why it's baffling to me that some here are always complaining the Buzz plays Acker and Cubillian so much. What the hell do they want Buzz to do? They are the only point guards he has to work with. Unless Buzz can take up voodoo and get magical healing powers for Junior, no other point guard will be walking on the court until next year.

When in only one season a program loses three seniors like we lost, their head coach, and the new coach gets ravaged by season ending injuries, you'll get what we see this year. An undermanned roster where the coach has no choice except to play role player types many more minutes than he'd prefer.

The losses of course sting to me, but i'm proud of how the kids are competing and also i'm encouraged that Buzz is showing he can coach, he's not only a good recruiter.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Not sure what the goals of posters, then, is on this board. I prefer to compete for the NCAA Championship. BTW, Crean gifted us with both Cubillan and Acker.

I thought you weren't going to blame this on him:

In this post, I won't rag on the former coach who left the cupboard bare.

Its amazing that a 2 pt loss could be blamed on the coach from 2 years ago. Amazing.

[Lennys Tap]

I believe that was the only one....but he left him with a guard that starts currently for the #1 team in the country.  In my mind, our weakest play right now is at the point guard position which is the MOST IMPORTANT position in college basketball.

Height is wonderful, but you can win without height in college.

Repeating a lie over and over again does not make it the truth. Tom Crean DID NOT leave Buzz and MU with Tyshawn Taylor when he went to IU. TC's defection made TT a FREE AGENT eligible to attend ANY college or university. His ALWAYS dream school had unexpected early defections to the NBA and so they offered and as a FREE AGENT TT accepted. Crean, Buzz and 344 other D1 coaches never had a chance against KU. And you know this as well as everybody else.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not sure what the goals of posters, then, is on this board. I prefer to compete for the NCAA Championship. BTW, Crean gifted us with both Cubillan and Acker.

Correct, he gifted us with them as ROLE players, not starters.  If I recall correctly, Acker was off the team but Buzz  begged him back....damn good thing he did.

And yes, we all want to win a NCAA championship, but the reality is that you have to walk before you run.  Quality guards is where it all starts.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Repeating a lie over and over again does not make it the truth. Tom Crean DID NOT leave Buzz and MU with Tyshawn Taylor when he went to IU. TC's defection made TT a FREE AGENT eligible to attend ANY college or university. His ALWAYS dream school had unexpected early defections to the NBA and so they offered and as a FREE AGENT TT accepted. Crean, Buzz and 344 other D1 coaches never had a chance against KU. And you know this as well as everybody else.

That is 100% incorrect and you know it.  Buzz flew down and met with TT and his family, well documented.  Continuing to ignore the facts does not make your claim true, yet you continue to do it.

And this free agent nonsense....what are you talking about.  He signed a LOI, there is no such thing as Free Agency in college.  Buzz made a pitch to keep him, the player, his family and coach said no thanks.  They then moved on.  He became a "free agent" after MU released him from his LOI, which MU didn't have to do.  Secondly, that release happened AFTER Buzz met with player, coach and family.  Why these facts are so devoid for you is pretty incredible.

Simply put, if TC was still at MU then TT would be playing for MU...period.  TC left, he didn't want to play for Buzz and MU anymore.  I don't know why this very simple fact isn't clear as a bell for you.

The other SIMPLE fact is that when coaches leave, players leave too.  When Buzz leaves, the same thing will happen.  I wonder how many folks then will scream he left the cupboard bare?  I doubt any, because the double standards on this board are incredible.

Buzz is doing the best job he can right now....I commend him highly.  But this nonsense about the cupboard being bare ignores the very REAL FACT that the cupboard wasn't bare, rather the players didn't want to play for the new coach and they left....THAT'S when the cupboard became "bare".  AFTER.

[Lennys Tap]

Correct, he gifted us with them as ROLE players, not starters.  If I recall correctly, Acker was off the team but Buzz  begged him back....damn good thing he did.

And yes, we all want to win a NCAA championship, but the reality is that you have to walk before you run.  Quality guards is where it all starts.

And you know that Buzz "begged" Acker back how? You were there? Can't resist any opportunity for a shot.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And you know that Buzz "begged" Acker back how? You were there? Can't resist any opportunity for a shot.

How is that a shot....Jesus, Anthony, thank God you didn't get into Psychology.  You're really bad at it.  Piss poor in fact.

I'm just glad Buzz did ask him back and let him back on the team, because we would be getting worked right now if he didn't.  He has a ton of flaws due to his size, but we would be in a lot worse shape without him if he wasn't around.

I COMMEND HIM (BUZZ) FOR ALLOWING HIM BACK ON THE TEAM.   It worked out well for both sides....MU has a point guard and Mo is able to finish his career.



Hey Lenny, I'll say it again....it's ok to be a fan of TC's reign and Buzz's.  I know I am, not sure why you aren't capable of it.  Not everyone is out to get Buzz, despite what your psychological whims suggest. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes that it common which lead to the end result of the cupboard being bare at both inside players and at PG, so Buzz was left with only spare parts at the PG position. From there Buzz did the best thing he could possibly do, he went out and landed a top 10 point guard recruit. Unfortunately Junior got hurt.

That's why it's baffling to me that some here are always complaining the Buzz plays Acker and Cubillian so much. What the hell do they want Buzz to do? They are the only point guards he has to work with. Unless Buzz can take up voodoo and get magical healing powers for Junior, no other point guard will be walking on the court until next year.

When in only one season a program loses three seniors like we lost, their head coach, and the new coach gets ravaged by season ending injuries, you'll get what we see this year. An undermanned roster where the coach has no choice except to play role player types many more minutes than he'd prefer.

The losses of course sting to me, but i'm proud of how the kids are competing and also i'm encouraged that Buzz is showing he can coach, he's not only a good recruiter.

I concur, I'm proud of them as well.  They are a gutty team, playing hard, Buzz is scheming solid game plans (somehow, this will be construed as anti-Buzz by some here, how I'll never know but some a-hole will say it anyway).

I also agree that he has not much of a choice to play Cubillan and Acker together at times, especially when DJO is in such horrible foul trouble.  My only complaint is EWill not playing a bit more, at least to spell someone from time to time for a few minutes. 

[Lennys Tap]

That is 100% incorrect and you know it.  Buzz flew down and met with TT and his family, well documented.  Continuing to ignore the facts does not make your claim true, yet you continue to do it.

And this free agent nonsense....what are you talking about.  He signed a LOI, there is no such thing as Free Agency in college.  Buzz made a pitch to keep him, the player, his family and coach said no thanks.  They then moved on.  He became a "free agent" after MU released him from his LOI, which MU didn't have to do.  Secondly, that release happened AFTER Buzz met with player, coach and family.  Why these facts are so devoid for you is pretty incredible.

Simply put, if TC was still at MU then TT would be playing for MU...period.  TC left, he didn't want to play for Buzz and MU anymore.  I don't know why this very simple fact isn't clear as a bell for you.

The other SIMPLE fact is that when coaches leave, players leave too.  When Buzz leaves, the same thing will happen.  I wonder how many folks then will scream he left the cupboard bare?  I doubt any, because the double standards on this board are incredible.

Buzz is doing the best job he can right now....I commend him highly.  But this nonsense about the cupboard being bare ignores the very REAL FACT that the cupboard wasn't bare, rather the players didn't want to play for the new coach and they left....THAT'S when the cupboard became "bare".  AFTER.

Free agency nonsense? What would you call a recruit released from his LOI when the coach leaves. Isn't he then free to select any school he chooses? Sounds like the definition of a free agent to me.

I guess TC's cupboard wasn't really bare when he arrived at IU either. Jordan Crawford (Xavier) and the dude who threw the plant at TC evidently wanted no part of Crean. Probably others, but I didn't follow the situation very closely.

[Lennys Tap]

How is that a shot....Jesus, Anthony, thank God you didn't get into Psychology.  You're really bad at it.  Piss poor in fact.

I'm just glad Buzz did ask him back and let him back on the team, because we would be getting worked right now if he didn't.  He has a ton of flaws due to his size, but we would be in a lot worse shape without him if he wasn't around.

I COMMEND HIM (BUZZ) FOR ALLOWING HIM BACK ON THE TEAM.   It worked out well for both sides....MU has a point guard and Mo is able to finish his career.



Hey Lenny, I'll say it again....it's ok to be a fan of TC's reign and Buzz's.  I know I am, not sure why you aren't capable of it.  Not everyone is out to get Buzz, despite what your psychological whims suggest. 

So now "asked" and "allowed" carry the same connotation as "begged". Maybe you should worry less about psychology and a little more about simple English.

[El Duderino]

That is 100% incorrect and you know it.  Buzz flew down and met with TT and his family, well documented.  Continuing to ignore the facts does not make your claim true, yet you continue to do it.

And this free agent nonsense....what are you talking about.  He signed a LOI, there is no such thing as Free Agency in college.  Buzz made a pitch to keep him, the player, his family and coach said no thanks.  They then moved on.  He became a "free agent" after MU released him from his LOI, which MU didn't have to do.

How often do universities hold recruits to their LOI if the head coach is fired or leaves for another job? It was pretty much a given that after Crean bolted, Taylor would be let out of his LOI if he no longer wanted to attend Marquette. It's looks bad for a school to force a recruit to honor his LOI in situations like that against his desires and the new coach isn't going to want a recruit that he's forcing to stay at the university. So while recruits in these circumstances aren't technically a "free agent", any new coach knows that he has to re-recruit any incoming players or let them out of their LOI if they'd prefer to go elsewhere.

The other SIMPLE fact is that when coaches leave, players leave too.  When Buzz leaves, the same thing will happen.  I wonder how many folks then will scream he left the cupboard bare?  I doubt any, because the double standards on this board are incredible.

Well, it's often a challenge for any new coach when they come in, but not all situations are the same for what the new coach inherits. For some, the cupboard truly is bare and for others, not so much. When Buzz leaves, we won't know what exactly the new coach inherits until the situation actually happened. Crean left Buzz a talented team last year with three very good seniors, so Buzz was able to win a lot of games and make the big dance. Not all new coaches are fortunate to inherit a team like we were last year. That said, there wasn't all that much left once the big three graduated and it's a sizable factor in why the team is undermanned this year. Even if Crean has stayed, making the tournament this year would have been highly unlikely with Jerel, Wes, and Dominic gone given what was left.

[ChicosBailBonds]

How often do universities hold recruits to their LOI if the head coach is fired or leaves for another job? It was pretty much a given that after Crean bolted, Taylor would be let out of his LOI if he no longer wanted to attend Marquette. It's looks bad for a school to force a recruit to honor his LOI in situations like that against his desires and the new coach isn't going to want a recruit that he's forcing to stay at the university. So while recruits in these circumstances aren't technically a "free agent", any new coach knows that he has to re-recruit any incoming players or let them out of their LOI if they'd prefer to go elsewhere.


Well, it's often a challenge for any new coach when they come in, but not all situations are the same for what the new coach inherits. For some, the cupboard truly is bare and for others, not so much. When Buzz leaves, we won't know what exactly the new coach inherits until the situation actually happened. Crean left Buzz a talented team last year with three very good seniors, so Buzz was able to win a lot of games and make the big dance. Not all new coaches are fortunate to inherit a team like we were last year. That said, there wasn't all that much left once the big three graduated and it's a sizable factor in why the team is undermanned this year. Even if Crean has stayed, making the tournament this year would have been highly unlikely with Jerel, Wes, and Dominic gone given what was left.

Agreed, not many hold them to their LOI.  My point is that the timeline seems to be ignored.  Buzz was given an opportunity to save that recruit, it didn't happen.  Life goes on, but the decision was made AFTER that saving attempt was made.

That's also why I laugh my ass off about the cupboard being bare.....how many guys walk in off the street to take over a program with 3 of the top 10 scorers in the history of the program and a 4th that will likely make it there.  MU would obviously be in a lot better shape right now if Junior and Otule were playing.  Unfortunately they are not, and for some reason EWill isn't ready to play which adds to the depth problem.

[warthog-driver]

Like I said, it is what is.  The same thing will happen when Buzz leaves, players will go elsewhere.  My only point is that it's silly to say the cupboard was bare....it wasn't, they just chose not to play for MU and Buzz.  That's a big difference in my mind.

To me, to say the cupboard is bare is an example of when Mike Deane left...that's having the cupboard bare.  A few decent players but nothing to write home about and we WANTED players to transfer.  Same when KO came in....we WANTED players to transfer for upgrades.  When TC left, we DID NOT want players to transfer because they were talented players...thus, the cupboard not being bare just by definition.

What the hell are you talking about Chico? Once we got past last year the cupboard was bare for a number of reasons, virtually every one of them related to Tanned Tommy's decison to leave MU. Defections happened because he turned his back on MU - there is a causal relationship at play here. I put the blame for the defections squarely on Crean for his act of selfishness. He took care of himself in a gutless manner with zero regard for any member of the MU community.

[Lennys Tap]

I concur, I'm proud of them as well.  They are a gutty team, playing hard, Buzz is scheming solid game plans (somehow, this will be construed as anti-Buzz by some here, how I'll never know but some a-hole will say it anyway).

I also agree that he has not much of a choice to play Cubillan and Acker together at times, especially when DJO is in such horrible foul trouble.  My only complaint is EWill not playing a bit more, at least to spell someone from time to time for a few minutes. 

This post is not anti-Buzz, at least in my humble opinion. As one of top a-holes on the board (on your list anyway) I find it fair and mostly accurate. Too bad you hold my opinion in such low esteem.