Lazar's Defense

[mikeDEANmeminger]

Some of you made a point to tell me how great Lazar's D was on Butler when he hit his last second shot....Go back and watch it on youtube and tell me if you feel the same way.
Butler started coming up the left side of the floor and instead of cutting him off and keeping him on one side of the floor like a good defender should, he let him spin back and come to the right.
Then as the play unfolds, Lazar goes for a weak spin move fake and slips giving Butler a wide open look at the shot. Not only that, Lazar recovers and gets a hand up but doesn't even jump with the shooter. Yes the kid hit a tough shot, but a player like Butler is going to knock that shot down 8 of 10 times if his defender isn't going to gaurd him.
Go back and take a look at it, then tell me what you really think about that defense. But at least he had a "sick" dunk with 8 minutes to go in the first half and made SC top plays...

[avid1010]

Some of you made a point to tell me how great Lazar's D was on Butler when he hit his last second shot....Go back and watch it on youtube and tell me if you feel the same way.
Butler started coming up the left side of the floor and instead of cutting him off and keeping him on one side of the floor like a good defender should, he let him spin back and come to the right.
Then as the play unfolds, Lazar goes for a weak spin move fake and slips giving Butler a wide open look at the shot. Not only that, Lazar recovers and gets a hand up but doesn't even jump with the shooter. Yes the kid hit a tough shot, but a player like Butler is going to knock that shot down 8 of 10 times if his defender isn't going to gaurd him.
Go back and take a look at it, then tell me what you really think about that defense. But at least he had a "sick" dunk with 8 minutes to go in the first half and made SC top plays...

Jerky post.  A little of "I told you so" mixed with I'm not ever going to let this go.

The kid hit a fade-away jumper that is dang near impossible to defend.  I'd say all those fade-away game winners that MJ and Kobe hit were because of poor defense as well.  

First of all, Lazar did cut Butler off, which is what allowed him to come back to his right.  Hard to say what the results would have been if he wouldn't have cut him off.  Second, most coaches don't teach you to jump with a shooter from that range, they teach you to stick your hand in their face, which is what Lazar did.  Last, his dunk was a great play.  He did exactly what a coach teaches his players, and that's to go hard to the hoop.  If he settles for a lay-up the defender is able to keep him from getting the and-one.  If you can't stand that MU fans liked the dunk, you need to get a life.  It was a strong dunk, a great play, and I don't recall anyone saying that they were alright with the loss because of the great dunk.  

And if you think Butler hits fade-away game winners, with a hand in his face and foot on the 3 point line 8 out of 10 times you're nuts. 

[reinko]

Some of you made a point to tell me how great Lazar's D was on Butler when he hit his last second shot....Go back and watch it on youtube and tell me if you feel the same way.
Butler started coming up the left side of the floor and instead of cutting him off and keeping him on one side of the floor like a good defender should, he let him spin back and come to the right.
Then as the play unfolds, Lazar goes for a weak spin move fake and slips giving Butler a wide open look at the shot. Not only that, Lazar recovers and gets a hand up but doesn't even jump with the shooter. Yes the kid hit a tough shot, but a player like Butler is going to knock that shot down 8 of 10 times if his defender isn't going to gaurd him.
Go back and take a look at it, then tell me what you really think about that defense. But at least he had a "sick" dunk with 8 minutes to go in the first half and made SC top plays...

Just to confirm.  You believe Butler would have a 80% FG% on 21 footers, falling away with a hand in his face.  The same Butler who shot 76% from the FT line last year?  

Thanks for playing chief.

[avid1010]

Just to confirm.  You believe Butler would have a 80% FG% on 21 footers, falling away with a hand in his face.  The same Butler who shot 76% from the FT line last year?  

Thanks for playing chief.

Too funny...guess he should change his form.  Fade-away free throws!

[mikeDEANmeminger]

actually, most coaches teach their players to jump and leave the floor when the shooter leaves the floor. What the hell good does putting your hand up when a kid like Butler is going to just jump up over the top of it.

And yes, as good a player as Butler is, he will hit that shot 8 of 10 times. or 80 of 100. or 80%. however you geniuses want to look at it. If the defense is going to give him an open look, he is going to knock it down.

do any of you know anything about basketball or do you just come on here to either praise MU when they get on SC or hate on any realistic critic on here after a loss. hate on me all you want, but I'm right.

[HoopsMalone]

And yes, as good a player as Butler is, he will hit that shot 8 of 10 times. or 80 of 100. or 80%. however you geniuses want to look at it. If the defense is going to give him an open look, he is going to knock it down.

It's pretty rare that anyone shoots 80% from anywhere, let alone from out there.  Most NBA players don't even do that from the free throw line, let alone the field.  Steve Kerr has the highest 3 point percentage in NBA history at about 45%.  Maybe some players are better in the clutch, like you could arbitrarily give Reggie Miller a 50% chance of hitting a three at the end of the game, but no one gets to 80%. 

80% is a little crazy, but I don't think your point was to argue for a percentage.  It's a tough call on how to defend at the end of games, but the worst thing Lazar could have done is foul.  I think it was all right defense. 

[avid1010]

actually, most coaches teach their players to jump and leave the floor when the shooter leaves the floor. What the hell good does putting your hand up when a kid like Butler is going to just jump up over the top of it.

And yes, as good a player as Butler is, he will hit that shot 8 of 10 times. or 80 of 100. or 80%. however you geniuses want to look at it. If the defense is going to give him an open look, he is going to knock it down.

do any of you know anything about basketball or do you just come on here to either praise MU when they get on SC or hate on any realistic critic on here after a loss. hate on me all you want, but I'm right.

So answer the question.  You do feel that Butler is more likely to hit that, than a free throw (76%)?

The hand in the face is taught to disrupt the shooters view of the rim.  As much as I despise the man, I got that from watching TC's practices.  The justification is jumping at a shooter (after he has already left the floor) will not result in a block, will do less to distract a shooter than a hand in the line of vision to the rim, and will result in the on-the-ball defender in a terrible position to try to box out the shooter. 

If you think Butler can shoot fade-away game winners better than he can shoot free throws I don't think you should be criticizing the basketball knowledge of others. 

[MU B2002]

Then as the play unfolds, Lazar goes for a weak spin move fake and slips giving Butler a wide open look at the shot. Not only that, Lazar recovers and gets a hand up but doesn't even jump with the shooter.

I followed your instructions and watched the play again on youtube...  How many times do you think a player, Hayward in this case, fouls a jump shooter, Butler for this example, jumping while trying to recover his defensive position?  8-10?  MY thinking is Hayward is on the run trying to get back to Butler, and if he jumps most veteran players (like Butler) would jump right into him creating an and-one situation. 

But I didn't know poop about basketball, so this is all pure speculation regarding the actions of a 3rd party. 

[mikeDEANmeminger]

you're all ridiculous. no i didn't mean i think he shoots 80% from the field. In that situation with the game on the line, a player like Butler (or Kemba Walker, etc) are going to make the type of shot when little D is played on them 8 of 10 times. Great players make big plays. I understand percentages ok, thanks.

I dont think players foul jump shooters all that often by jumping straight up and down. you leave the floor when your man leaves the floor. not a difficult concept.

As for Ners...thanks for the ever so intelligent addition to this thread. It really speaks highly to the intelligence of this board. I think its clear who the "Douche Bag" is

[MU B2002]

I dont think players foul jump shooters all that often by jumping straight up and down. you leave the floor when your man leaves the floor. not a difficult concept.

Jumping straight up and down I agree, but Hayward would be jumping at an angle due to his poor defensive position.  Jumping on the move generally seems to be a bad idea, see DJO from about 120 min ago.

[HoopsMalone]

Jumping straight up and down I agree, but Hayward would be jumping at an angle due to his poor defensive position.  Jumping on the move generally seems to be a bad idea, see DJO from about 120 min ago.

also see Dominic James v. Georgetown.  Even worse. 

[MU B2002]

also see Dominic James v. Georgetown.  Even worse. 

Thanks, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.  Stupid national marquette day.

[Strokin 3s]

Congrats on making the ignore list.

[damuts222]

Thats a lot of ignores for a small amount of posts

[nathanziarek]

you're all ridiculous. no i didn't mean i think he shoots 80% from the field. In that situation with the game on the line, a player like Butler (or Kemba Walker, etc) are going to make the type of shot when little D is played on them 8 of 10 times. Great players make big plays. I understand percentages ok, thanks.

Why are you so angry? I was going to let you know that posting in a way that doesn't belittle the fans on this site is probably a better way to start a real debate, but then I realized you don't want to debate. You just want to be right.

"Great players make big plays" is not an argument, it's a saying. While I love the audacity of making up a number while calling other posters ridiculous for their opinions, you need to prove your assertions if you're going to be so belligerent.

Go back through Butler's career and find the number of times he's had the ball in last second shots. What's the percentage?

I don't expect you to actually do it, partially because it'd be time consuming, but mostly because it's a fool's errand. I'm just tired of coming to this board where 95% of the posts deteriorate into "Crean sucks" comments or are ruined by a handful of pissed-at-the-world posters. How about being part of the 5% that actually wants to contribute?

[akmarq]

As for Ners...thanks for the ever so intelligent addition to this thread. It really speaks highly to the intelligence of this board. I think its clear who the "Douche Bag" is

Also...Ners didn't even post on this discussion topic? So is it his silence that is "douchey?"

It's also nice how you brought your argument about the dunk that no one agreed with from that thread to this one.

[MU B2002]

Also...Ners didn't even post on this discussion topic? So is it his silence that is "douchey?"

It's also nice how you brought your argument about the dunk that no one agreed with from that thread to this one.

I believe that the Ners quote you speak of was deleted by the mods.  I remember the post MDM is referring to, and it was either in this thread or the Lazar dunk thread.

[akmarq]

I believe that the Ners quote you speak of was deleted by the mods.  I remember the post MDM is referring to, and it was either in this thread or the Lazar dunk thread.

Roger Dodger. My bad...I didn't get a chance to read the thread until just now.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

My first ever IGNORE! 

Seriously, if your so smart and an all knowing critic, go start your own board and get off here.

[akmarq]

It's kind of sad that the only place were people don't yell at each other is the beer thread.

[rocky_warrior]

Favorite one:
"And I'll take that bet...can about guarantee Wilson isn't at MU, ever (and doesn't try to transfer to MU). Unless Buzz and staff is no longer here"

Oooops.

I'm not a big MDM fan, but did I miss the big news about Wilson transferring to MU?  I'm afraid I don't know what you're getting at.

[Skatastrophy]

I'm not a big MDM fan, but did I miss the big news about Wilson transferring to MU?  I'm afraid I don't know what you're getting at.

I think you just busted him in the middle of a ninja-edit

[rocky_warrior]

I think you just busted him in the middle of a ninja-edit

Actually, piecing together what I can...I gather that Wilson may have visited MU this past weekend.  Can anybody on campus, or at the the game confirm or deny this?

Err, never mind, Wilson was busy starting for the Ducks on Sat.  I'm a doofus.

[mikeDEANmeminger]

I know he is at least 1for 1 on game winning shots. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is 100% I believe.

as for people bragging about ignoring me...good for you. If you can't prove me wrong, just take the easy way out and ignore me like a man.

And the rest of the posts??? I'm kinda confused...where did this Wilson stuff come from?? He still isn't going to transfer here. I'm not real sure why his name came up??

[akmarq]

Ninja edit FAIL.

Jamail Wilson does not go to MU...Jamail Jones is planning on going to MU. They have the same first name and I goofed after reading a post too quick. I look like a tool. But I admit it...which is the first step toward recovery.