[Cracked Sidewalks] At this pace, where will four stars rank among the best MU players of all time?

[CrackedSidewalksSays]

At this pace, where will four stars rank among the best MU players of all time?

Written by: hilltopper91@gmail.com (Kevin Buckley (Hilltopper))

   PUDNER WEEK: Cracked Sidewalks has gone all-Pudner, all the time.  Here's his third column of three.

At this pace, where will four stars rank among the best MU  players of all time? - John Pudner
   This is the final of three columns on where MUs current four  stars will rank among the all-time greats in MU history.
  While the four current MU stars will be all over the all-time  lists of points scored, assists, steals and wins, we need to look at all of  these factors and others to determine where they rank among the 32 pro players  and 16 1st and 2nd team All-Americans to play at MU before  them.  For example, Bo Ellis and Butch Lee may look like they put up fewer  numbers than the current team, but their 1976 and 1977 teams allowed only 60.1  and 59.4 points per game, almost 10 points a game less than is scored against MU  today with the faster pace.  If you go back even further in time, Dave Quabius  8.8 ppg during his All-American campaign in 1939 may look unimpressive, until  you realize that MU was still giving up just 32.6 ppg then.
  Each players stats must be understood in the context of how  many points his MU squad arrived, and this all must be considered in the light  of how far he was able to lead his teams in overall wins and the tournament, and  what recognition he received from coaches and writers (e.g. Dominic being named  AP All-American Honorable Mention, or Jerel getting Big East defensive player of  the year).
  With all of these points, wins, assists and steals, how  valuable have the four greats been to date?  Many other factors such as how many  opponents’ points allowed are factored into the “Win Credits” formula on all 671  MU players between 1917 and now.  Bo Ellis will still have created the most wins  of any MU player in history with an estimate 25.7 Wins Created during his four  years, however all four MU players are on pace to make the top 10, and McNeal is  on pace to finish 2nd only to Ellis.
 

• Bo Ellis 25.7 Win Credits (estimate number of wins for which  Ellis was responsible)  
• Jerel McNeal 22.6  
• Butch Lee 21.5  
• Dominic James 21.0  
• George Thompson 20.5  
• Dean Meminger 19.7  
• Lazar Hayward 19.7 (if senior year just as good as this  year)  
• Travis Diener 18.6  
• Wes Matthews 17.7  
• Don Kojis 16.4

 WHERE DO THEY RANK AMONG THE ALL-TIME GREATS?
  Obviously seasons are now longer than they were in past  decades, so today’s players have many more games in which to try to earn Win  Credits.  Where would today’s Fab 4 players rank among the 671 players to put on  an MU uniform, including 32 players who would go onto play professionally and 16  players who went 1st or 2nd team All-American?  My system  for ranking the all-time players indicates it will be hard for any of the  current four to break the Top 12 MU players of all time, which includes players  from Dwyane Wade to Jerome Whitehead who were All-Americans and played  professionally.  However, the three Amigos are on pace to end up among the top  two dozen players to ever play for MU on their current pace.  The rating to the  left of each of the following players is a combination of their Win Credits for  each season per games played, as well as how far they took the team and the  impact they had on the program, starting with the 13th greatest  player in MU history, Tony Smith:
  PROJECTED FINAL RANKING OF 3 AMIGOS AMONG ALL-TIME MU  GREATS

• Tony Smith 43.3  
• Larry McNeil 43.2  
• Travis Diener 42.7  
• Jim McIlvaine 41.8  
• Lloyd Walton 41.5  
• Doc Rivers 40.9  
• Jerel McNeal 40.8  
• Bernard Toone 40.2  
• Dominic James 38.8  
• Ed Mullen 38.7  
• Gary Brell 38.6  
• Wesley Matthews 38.5  
• Michael Wilson 38.5  
• Bob Lackey 38.2  
• Sam Worthen 37.4  
• Joe Thomas 36.0

 A 27-9 season (give or take a couple of wins) that included a  win or two in the NCAA tournament would likely end up with McNeal rating as the  19th greatest player in MU history, with James and Matthews just a  couple of spots behind.  A trip to the Elite 8 would move each player up at  least another point, and a Final Four trip would add at least two points to each  player, moving each player further up the list above.  On an individual bases,  any player could get an additional point for being drafted or playing in the  NBA, and/or being the 22nd MU player ever selected to at least the  4th team of an All-American team.  One or more of the three players  doing that could make a run that could challenge Tony Smith for the  13th spot or potentially go even higher.
  Where ever they end up ranking on all of these fronts, it’s  awfully hard to imagine the first four years of Big East play being a success  without the Three Amigos and the addition of Lazar the next year.  They’ve put  MU at a level of Big East competition to attract the next round of MU stars.

John Pudner, Journalism ’88, was Editorial Editor and then News Editor for the Marquette Tribune. He was named top sports news writer in Virginia in 1991 while working for the Charlottesville Observer and wrote a weekly column on his rankings of baseball pitchers for the New York Post before leaving journalism for a career in politics and government affairs.

John's book Ultimate Hoops Guide: Marquette University can be ordered here: (www.collegeprowler.com/basketball)  

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/01/at-this-pace-where-will-four-stars-rank.html

[MR.HAYWARD]

sounds about right somewhere between 10-20 for Jerel and Dj, wes and zar a little lower

[bamamarquettefan]

Yes, though if zar is the go-to guy next year, as we all assume, he could explode while having to take charge.