Basketball Stupid

[LON]

With 1:06 left Gardner ball watches and doesn't box out Stainbrook, he gets easy putback layup. Ball game.  I think that put us back down by 5, we get that rebound this game (maybe) turns out differently.

[CTWarrior]

Well said, Lenny.  Our backcourt did its job last night - not only Derrick, Jake and Todd,but Dawson had some nice minutes off the bench.  I think he earned 10-15 minutes spotting Derrick with his play last night.

Our front line was another story....

Our backcourt (DeWilson, Thomas, Dawson, Mayo, JJJ) 108 minutes, 41.9 FG%, 38.1 3FG%, 33.3% FT%, 10 reb, 13 ast, 3 steals, 2 turnovers, 35 points

Their backcourt (Davis, Christon, Randolph, Davis) 93 minutes, 43.5 FG%, 44.4 3FG%, 82.6 FT%, 8 reb, 10 assists, 1 steal, 2 turnovers, 43 points

Based on above, their backcourt probably outplayed ours, but not by much.  With that discrepancy, I would expect our frontcourt to make up the difference.  

The real issue in the game was that their frontcourt outrebounded our frontcourt 31-10.  That is abysmal.

[starting5]

Not sure Gardner has ever boxed out in his life.  When he plays 30+ minutes he should get more than 4 rebounds.  He never gets defensive boards cause he is too lazy.  Offense he perks up a bit and goes hard cause all he wants is buckets!!
Hard to watch him on defense and hard to watch Derrick walk the ball up the floor the final minute down 5-7 points.

[Hards Alumni]

Not sure Gardner has ever boxed out in his life.  When he plays 30+ minutes he should get more than 4 rebounds.  He never gets defensive boards cause he is too lazy.  Offense he perks up a bit and goes hard cause all he wants is buckets!!
Hard to watch him on defense and hard to watch Derrick walk the ball up the floor the final minute down 5-7 points.

He doesn't go for defensive rebounds because he know there is no chance for a put back or an and one. 

[MerrittsMustache]

To borrow from Scott Skiles in regards to Eddy Curry...

Q: What could DG do to get more rebounds?
A: Jump.

[Norm]

With 1:06 left Gardner ball watches and doesn't box out Stainbrook, he gets easy putback layup. Ball game.  I think that put us back down by 5, we get that rebound this game (maybe) turns out differently.

So Christon and the rest of Xavier draining their last 4 3-pointers from way downtown and hitting all their free throws down the stretch had nothing to do with the outcome in the last 3 minutes?

I just don't get the singular focus on Davante and folks claiming his lack of rebounds and defense were the reason we lost the game. I think some folks have come to take Davante's scoring for granted and focus solely on his defensive failings. Without Davante this team woudl struggle to score 45 points a game.

[CTWarrior]

I just don't get the singular focus on Davante and folks claiming his lack of rebounds and defense were the reason we lost the game. I think some folks have come to take Davante's scoring for granted and focus solely on his defensive failings. Without Davante this team woudl struggle to score 45 points a game.

It is not difficult for many of us to come to grips with the duality of Gardner.  He is very productive on offense and very limited/detrimental on defense. 

I agree with you that on a team that struggles to score, we have to have him on the floor, but that doesn't mean I don't wish he was more productive/enthusiastic on defense and especially on the defensive boards.  Our frontcourt was outrebounded 31-10.  Each rebound is a chance to take possession of the ball.  That is 21 extra possessions for them.  That is hard to overcome.

[Norm]

It is not difficult for many of us to come to grips with the duality of Gardner.  He is very productive on offense and very limited/detrimental on defense. 

I agree with you that on a team that struggles to score, we have to have him on the floor, but that doesn't mean I don't wish he was more productive/enthusiastic on defense and especially on the defensive boards.  Our frontcourt was outrebounded 31-10.  Each rebound is a chance to take possession of the ball.  That is 21 extra possessions for them.  That is hard to overcome.

The funny thing is Davante leads the team in rebounding this year, with an average of 5.8 per game. Otule averages 5 a game and Jamil Wilson 4.8.

[willie warrior]

So Christon and the rest of Xavier draining their last 4 3-pointers from way downtown and hitting all their free throws down the stretch had nothing to do with the outcome in the last 3 minutes?

I just don't get the singular focus on Davante and folks claiming his lack of rebounds and defense were the reason we lost the game. I think some folks have come to take Davante's scoring for granted and focus solely on his defensive failings. Without Davante this team woudl struggle to score 45 points a game.

The singular focus on Devante is to deflect criticism for the rest of the pets out there:
Devante's defense is average--it is not poor. He is a big guy who allegedly has some weight issues, so it is the old grade school folly-- pick on the fat boy.
Anderson the alleged glue guy plys like he sniffs it, but no don't criticize him--guys blow by him all the time.
Ja. Wilson plays worse D than Devante with people blowing by him all the time--but nobody mentions that.
De. Wilson has been getting burned all year by PG's. He had 1 good D game 2 years ago, but little criticism about him. He is a defensive legend in some people's minds.
Mayo, another guy with a permanent scowl on his face and who lets guys blow by him all the time, but nothing said about him.
Otule who has 6 years in the system and is the tallest guy on the floor is reputed to be a stud D, but Stainbrook was schooling him, but nobody says anything about his lack of Defense prowess--by the way, he should be rebounding and blocking a lot more shots if he was so good defensively.

All of the guys I mentioned are more athletic and quicker than Gardner, but let's dump it all on him.

Where the hell would this team be without Gardner--about 6-10, instead of 9-7. Gardner's D is no worse than the rest of the above, but his "attitude" and demeanor do not meet the Hater's approval.

Let's face it Sports fans, this team has many holes, and Devante's D is a minor one compared to the other holes and what he brings to the table offensively. Gardner has developed himself as much in 4 years as Otule has done in his decade, but let's dump on OX--the fat guy is always good to be the whipping boy.

Otule is what he is and Gardner is what he is.

[jesmu84]

It is not difficult for many of us to come to grips with the duality of Gardner.  He is very productive on offense and very limited/detrimental on defense. 

I agree with you that on a team that struggles to score, we have to have him on the floor, but that doesn't mean I don't wish he was more productive/enthusiastic on defense and especially on the defensive boards.  Our frontcourt was outrebounded 31-10.  Each rebound is a chance to take possession of the ball.  That is 21 extra possessions for them.  That is hard to overcome.

i feel as though this is the problem with a majority of players on our team. they're only proficient on one end of the court. and because of these proficiencies (or deficiencies), buzz has a tough time trying to find the right combinations of players, playing time and schemes.

[jesmu84]

The funny thing is Davante leads the team in rebounding this year, with an average of 5.8 per game. Otule averages 5 a game and Jamil Wilson 4.8.

i'm curious, what are the rebounds/min?

[CTWarrior]

i'm curious, what are the rebounds/min?

For Gardner 0.234, Otule 0.272 and Wilson 0.194.

Otule has the higher rate, while actually playing help defense, too.  Wilson has less, but he is chasing perimeter guys on defense a lot more than Gardner is, and should have a lot less.  None of them are great rebounders, but at least Otule and Jamil defend.

[MU82]

The singular focus on Devante is to deflect criticism for the rest of the pets out there:
Devante's defense is average--it is not poor. He is a big guy who allegedly has some weight issues, so it is the old grade school folly-- pick on the fat boy.
Anderson the alleged glue guy plys like he sniffs it, but no don't criticize him--guys blow by him all the time.
Ja. Wilson plays worse D than Devante with people blowing by him all the time--but nobody mentions that.
De. Wilson has been getting burned all year by PG's. He had 1 good D game 2 years ago, but little criticism about him. He is a defensive legend in some people's minds.
Mayo, another guy with a permanent scowl on his face and who lets guys blow by him all the time, but nothing said about him.
Otule who has 6 years in the system and is the tallest guy on the floor is reputed to be a stud D, but Stainbrook was schooling him, but nobody says anything about his lack of Defense prowess--by the way, he should be rebounding and blocking a lot more shots if he was so good defensively.

All of the guys I mentioned are more athletic and quicker than Gardner, but let's dump it all on him.

Where the hell would this team be without Gardner--about 6-10, instead of 9-7. Gardner's D is no worse than the rest of the above, but his "attitude" and demeanor do not meet the Hater's approval.

Let's face it Sports fans, this team has many holes, and Devante's D is a minor one compared to the other holes and what he brings to the table offensively. Gardner has developed himself as much in 4 years as Otule has done in his decade, but let's dump on OX--the fat guy is always good to be the whipping boy.

Otule is what he is and Gardner is what he is.

Davante slurper.

(Sorry ... couldn't resist.)

[TJ]

Gardner was horrific on defense and on the boards.  He was very good on offense.  Otule is a deterrent in the lane.  Just more examples of talented but incomplete players on this roster.  Jamil Wilson and Todd Mayo are the only guys with competence in all aspects of their position, but they lack consistency.

Mayo lacking consistency is an understatement.

[CTWarrior]

The singular focus on Devante is to deflect criticism for the rest of the pets out there:
Devante's defense is average--it is not poor. He is a big guy who allegedly has some weight issues, so it is the old grade school folly-- pick on the fat boy.

I don't think there is an inordinate amount of criticism on this board of Gardner's defense.  Certainly not when compared to Derrick's offense, for example.  In general, his defense is below average.  I thought he was a terrible defender last night.  Provided no help defense, which a center guarding the post has to do, and got 4 rebounds in 37 minutes.  Maybe he wanted to avoid foul trouble, maybe 37 minutes is too many for him.

I also don't see where Stainbrook schooled Otule at all.  Scored on him maybe once while being turned away several times.  

Finally, I agree that Davante gives us a dimension on offense we can't replace.

[CTWarrior]

Mayo lacking consistency is an understatement.

Agreed.

[tower912]

Getting pounded on the boards should never happen to this team.   Davante is just not a good defender.   Last night was one where buzz should have been doing a lot of offense/defense switches with Otule and Gardner.   STjr isn't recovered.   Juan's confidence is gone.   Defensive rebounding was embarrassing.  

[TSmith34, Inc.]

• DG's defense was brutal and really nulllifies what ended up, after a shaky start, to be a good night on the offensive end.  His absolute failure to block out and contest that put back was one of two back breaking plays


• The other back breaker was after we cut it to three and got a quick defensive stop -- and Jamil picks up an offensive foul on the other end before we even get into the offense


• I have to think Taylor is hurt.  The one place you can excel, and where he excelled last year, was on the glass, and he just doesn't have it this year.
  

[MU82]

I don't think there is an inordinate amount of criticism on this board of Gardner's defense.  Certainly not when compared to Derrick's offense, for example.  In general, his defense is below average.  I thought he was a terrible defender last night.  Provided no help defense, which a center guarding the post has to do, and got 4 rebounds in 37 minutes.  Maybe he wanted to avoid foul trouble, maybe 37 minutes is too many for him.

I also don't see where Stainbrook schooled Otule at all.  Scored on him maybe once while being turned away several times.  

Finally, I agree that Davante gives us a dimension on offense we can't replace.

Excellent analysis. I agree with every word here.

[4everwarriors]

I think basketball IQ as a rule is just not there anymore. Granted there are teams or individual players that still have it, but I that seems to rare these days. I do think our freshmen, including Wilson, are athletes that are also basketball savvy. The game has changed so much over past decade that is almost a different game today. I find myself struggling to watch whole games because of that. Hate to say it, but easier to watch UW than MU this year and not just because of the difference in records.

Gotta agree. UW is so much more fundamentally sound. I'm so ready for our senior class to move, along with a couple others.

[Benny B]

No... basketball not stupid.  Basketball not alive.  Player who play basketball maybe stupid.  Basketball coach maybe stupid.  Basketball fan who get upset at basketball player and coach definitely stupid.

[LON]

So Christon and the rest of Xavier draining their last 4 3-pointers from way downtown and hitting all their free throws down the stretch had nothing to do with the outcome in the last 3 minutes?

I just don't get the singular focus on Davante and folks claiming his lack of rebounds and defense were the reason we lost the game. I think some folks have come to take Davante's scoring for granted and focus solely on his defensive failings. Without Davante this team woudl struggle to score 45 points a game.

I was highlighting a key play that summed up his performance on the glass.  The fact that Christon hit two 3s with Derrick in his face obviously hurts. But Derrick wasn't lacking effort in what he should have been doing on those two plays.  The situation I pointed out showed Davante not trying to box out, and worse, ball watching. Something that a senior should not be doing.