4ever...did Jim Tressel on the national stage tonight lay a gigantic turd

[ChicosBailBonds]

You seemed to think that about Crean and the Final Four when it was a miracle we were even in the Final Four.

Yet tonight, the #1 team in the country picked by everyone to crush Florida, got waxed on the national stage.

Does that mean Tressel laid a gigantic turd on the national stage or is possible that too much credit and blame are often given to coaches, when in fact players have to perform in order to win games.

Discuss

[thatman32]

Anyone that watched Florida play, this year in the SEC, knew they could beat ohio state.  Also Tressel has a history of winning and getting to the national title game while tom crean can barely make the tournment every year.  I know you bleed blue and gold but you can't compare apples to oranges.

And now your blaming the players  . . . how funny.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Anyone that watched Florida play, this year in the SEC, knew they could beat ohio state.  Also Tressel has a history of winning and getting to the national title game while tom crean can barely make the tournment every year.  I know you bleed blue and gold but you can't compare apples to oranges.

And now your blaming the players  . . . how funny.

I'm not blaming the players exclusively.  What I'm saying is that coaches coach, coaches gameplan, etc but at the end of the day it's the players that execute or don't execute.  At the end of the day, players make shots, players make free throws, players play defense, players get rebounds.  Not coaches.  I don't make it personal, they are only 18-22 year old kids.  But there is no question in my mind that the players are certainly partly culpable in the results as are the coaches. Are you saying the players are playing well right now?  These are the same players and coaches that played great against Duke and Texas Tech are they not?

Under your guidelines, you would blame a parent who raised a kid as well as they could but the kid got mixed up in drugs somewhere because he made a bad decision.  Coaches can do so much.  Parents can do so much.  The players can do so much.

As for Crean barely making the tournament every year, I don't know...3 out of the last 5...not stellar but that's hardly "barely making it".  Each time they were in the upper half of the seeding, again hardly "barely making it".

The bigger point in the email was that 4ever has always stated that the one thing that has deprived him from the magical elixir of happiness that he is entitled to is how we played on one given night in New Orleans against top 5 Kansas.  Apparently this loss has always been worse then the journey to get there (beating #1 Kentucky, top 10 Pitt, Mizzou, Holy Cross).  I'll never understand that but each person is different.  Viewing people on the Ohio State boards tonight, I guess that is just how a certain segment of the population is.  People calling for Tressel to be fired.  You're right, Tressel is a wonderful coach and for anyone to call for his firing is just retarded. 

To each their own I guess.


Boise State for national champions...only undefeated team in the country   

[thatman32]

I think a lot of people want consistency and we are always inconsistent with bad recruiting and one and done in the NCAA.  Now lets remove the final four because it was a statistical outlier(a analogy would be a company having a one a time gain because they are selling one of their lines of business's that is not related to their core business.  Therefore, the equity researcher removes the gain from the net income he or she is trying to find and you then find the 'real' accrual income of the company).  Tom crean is not a very good coach and if he was getting paid 300K a year I would be totally cool with it but he gets paid way to much and delivers way to little that is what a lot people believe.  We want consistency and we are consistently bad given the money that is put into the program and that is what 4everwarrior is saying.  That is all.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I sure would hate to be in that position.  Apparently when we win it's because of the players and when we lose it is because of the coach. 

No thanks, I think I'll stay out of coaching.  (personally, I think it's a combination of players and coaches, but that's just me)


Tonight only proves it I guess, Jim Tressel must only have won because of the players and tonight he decided to get involved so they lost.   


I have no idea if Crean is a good coach or not, I just know we win 20 games a year on average, have good players, don't get in trouble with the NCAA, go to the NCAA tournament more often then not, play in an elite conference, etc.  No question this team, this year is frightful to watch.  Frightful.  Something tells me if they start making shots it will be less frightful to watch.

[maxpower773]

Chicos, you're right on this, about players having to execute. Obviously the coach has to make the correct calls and give the players the knowledge they need to get better. But if they don't use it then we get what's happened in some of the games this year. During the Syracuse game, some idiot was sitting behind me and started to complain about Crean...this was after an inbound play where McNeal failed to grab the ball after a poor pass, which lead to a turnover. He blamed that on Crean, and after listening to this for the whole game I turned around and preceded to prove him wrong, and tell him there is a difference between play calling and execution...apparently he thought Crean was the person who made the bad pass and couldn't catch the ball. Later his brother made some stupid comment again...same thing happened, I think his girlfriend told my friend and I to stop yelling at him....apparently she has sensitive hearing cause we weren't yelling, just stating.  I think people need to realize that coaches can only do so much, the players have to use what they're giving and execute, and so far they haven't this season. I am not though saying that coaches are never to blame, but that people need to look at whats causing a team to lose.

[Wareagle]

Urban Meyer proved he is a great coach and the Buckeyes offense (o-line especially) was overmatched withouth Ginn.

[4everwarriors]

he did. However, the more valid argument is the young, relatively inexperienced, highly paid coach, prepared his team with a great game plan and had them playing with a chip on their shoulder and took the game away from tOSU.

[ecompt]

was completely overrated this year. If USU and Florida play 100 times, Florida wins 95 of them. If Michigan and USC play 100 times, USC wins 95. Wisconsin's OOC schedule was a joke.

[MU gimp ONE]

Tom crean is not a very good coach and if he was getting paid 300K a year I would be totally cool with it but he gets paid way to much and delivers way to little that is what a lot people believe.  We want consistency and we are consistently bad given the money that is put into the program and that is what 4everwarrior is saying.  That is all.

not to bring up a dispute over crean's pay again, because we all know how long those threads get.  however, if you want to compare this to the business world.  you have to remember that division 1 college basketball is a business for the university.  and saying that crean deserves 300k shows that you would be a terrible manager in business.  basically, crean would be the man responsible for growing multiple business segments.  so far he has shown a 300+% increase in popularity of the program, generating a huge ROI.  i guess the only segment that he has not shown a large growth is in NCAA appearances.  If you are looking at it from a business aspect, he is worth his pay in terms of the revenue and the total ROI he gives to Marquette as a business. 

I'm just saying since you like business stories.  Now if you want to be a fan and say you are pissed he gets that money because we can't go deep in the tourney except for our "outlier" than fine.  but don't say overall he is not worth the money we pay him, because he has brought into this program way more dollars than he has taken out.

[MU71]

 

I agree with you 100%.  I admit I'm not a big Crean fan basis coaching or recruiting.  I don't think he brings in consistent talent at all positions and I question some of his coaching philosophies.  That being said though, he is well-worth what we're paying him on the business side because of what he has done for the program and where he has positioned us as far as national recogniton, donations, etc.  He has brought in a ton of money and if you don't think college basketball is a business then you're not paying attention. If and when it stops making sense business-wise to retain him, he should be let go.  That will happen eventually IF his teams don't win.  Until then, he should stay and we can criticize the coaching/recruiting side of it all we want.  That is what the sports side is all about.