Quote from: jfp61 on April 20, 2025, 01:56:34 PMI prefer good defenders to "defend good"


Not worse than kam did as a sophomore, despite having more traits to be able to defend.

He will be fine defensively.

Zaide has registered a block in fewer than 5% of the games he's played in. Amazing.

#BlockRate #Tiny

Quote from: jfp61 on April 20, 2025, 01:46:59 PMWould you rather me say "typically degenerative"?

Typically when you tear an acl. You don't run faster. You lose function.

It's not 1920.

Quote from: wadesworld on April 20, 2025, 02:01:23 PMIt's not 1920.

Not yet

Quote from: jfp61 on April 20, 2025, 12:09:38 PMSean and Zaide arn't that good. And there is no sign they will be good without blind faith.

I can go into further details but it feels mean spirted. We have 1100+ possessions of evidence for each them.

Zaide is the best rebounder and possibly defender on the team and also lead the team in 3 point shooting?

Chase is the best defender and probably should be again, but Zaide will be in the conversation. To illustrate that Zaide was the most efficient 3 point shooter and best rebounder on the roster, see below.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on April 20, 2025, 02:12:36 PMZaide possibly defender on the team ?

HAHAHAHAHHA

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on April 20, 2025, 02:26:46 PMChase is the best defender and probably should be again, but Zaide will be in the conversation. To illustrate that Zaide was the most efficient 3 point shooter and best rebounder on the roster, see below.

Defensive box is just defensive counting stats.

Not how frequently you get burned

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 20, 2025, 01:59:53 PMZaide has registered a block in fewer than 5% of the games he's played in. Amazing.

#BlockRate #Tiny

Sounds like a future Dallas Mavericks first-round draft pick.

#Z2NBA

Quote from: MU82 on April 20, 2025, 02:33:05 PMSounds like a future Dallas Mavericks first-round draft pick.

#Z2NBA

Zaide has a chance to be a very defender.  Progress isn't linear.  A healthy off-season and fall will go a long way in helping Zaide reach his full potential which is quite high.  It's laughable to think he won't be a better overall player in year 3.

Quote from: jfp61 on April 20, 2025, 01:46:59 PMWould you rather me say "typically degenerative"?

Typically when you tear an acl. You don't run faster. You lose function.

Hundreds of high-level athletes have successfully returned from this injury.

Look ... I can't speak for others, but I am not declaring that Sean Jones and/or Zaide Lowery will be good next season. Or even adequate. Because I don't know.

The thing is, neither do you.

For example, you claimed there was "no sign" that either would be good. And when presented with actual signs that they could be good, you either chose to ignore those signs or returned with more evidence-free opinions.

Quote from: MU82 on April 20, 2025, 02:42:47 PMFor example, you claimed there was "no sign" that either would be good. And when presented with actual signs that they could be good, you either chose to ignore those signs or returned with more evidence-free opinions.

I was asked to say why without stats because they would be "skewed" as backups.

I say why with opinion, and without stats.

I get told that I don't have evidence.


Evidently you all have faith that's great. I just want to add one mid major guard in the portal please. That's it.

I don't want to watch these two guys start without competition. It's naive to they will preform at an upper half of the Big East level.

Quote from: jfp61 on April 20, 2025, 02:31:28 PMDefensive box is just defensive counting stats.

Not how frequently you get burned

Zaide routinely guarded the other teams best when on the floor and had the 3rd best Defensive Rating on the team.

2nd best among returners.

Chase Ross- 100.9
Zaide Lowery- 101.1

They are both great defenders.

I know the stats that JFP is relying on to inform his opinion of Zaide and Sean. They essentially measure how better/ a team was when a player was on the court vs off the court. It's closest thing there is to a tool to accurarely measure a players total defensive impact.

I'm in a group chat with a guy who tracks these numbers for MU. My recollection is that Zaide dug himself a massive hole in the first half of the season but actually made huge gains in the last third.I think Zaide will be solid next season. I'm more worried about Sean

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 20, 2025, 03:46:28 PMI know the stats that JFP is relying on to inform his opinion of Zaide and Sean. They essentially measure how better/ a team was when a player was on the court vs off the court. It's closest thing there is to a tool to accurarely measure a players total defensive impact.

I'm in a group chat with a guy who tracks these numbers for MU. My recollection is that Zaide dug himself a massive hole in the first half of the season but actually made huge gains in the last third.I think Zaide will be solid next season. I'm more worried about Sean

Plus/Minus?

Zaide has the same individual defensive rating as Micah Peavy of 101.1 which was tied for 11th in the Conference

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 20, 2025, 03:46:28 PMMy recollection is that Zaide dug himself a massive hole in the first half of the season but actually made huge gains in the last third.I think Zaide will be solid next season. I'm more worried about Sean

This is true.... however we were a worse basketball team as the season went on when he was digging out of the hole defensively. He became a just above average college defender in the last 30 days of the season.

Box Scores defense and individual defensive rating are bad stats to me. Remember how great those Luke Fischer blocks were.

Zaide had the second worst ADJ TEAM Defensive Efficency when on the court of the entire team. It was 95.8. Only Demarious Owens was worse at 98.4.

Also it wasn't just that Zaide was stuck playing with the bench. You can look at the team defense on off splits when neither Owens or Caedin played to get a better gage of his impact.


https://hoop-explorer.com/OnOffAnalyzer?autoOffQuery=false&baseQuery=&calcRapm=true&gender=Men&maxRank=400&minRank=0&offQuery=NOT%20%28%22Lowery%2C%20Zaide%22%20%29%20AND%20NOT%20%22Owens%2C%20Damarius%22%20AND%20NOT%20%22Hamilton%2C%20Caedin%22%20&onQuery=%22Lowery%2C%20Zaide%22%20AND%20NOT%20%22Owens%2C%20Damarius%22%20AND%20NOT%20%22Hamilton%2C%20Caedin%22%20&team=Marquette&year=2024%2F25&

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on April 20, 2025, 03:29:18 PMZaide routinely guarded the other teams best when on the floor

I missed all of those games he must have started.

Looking forward to growth and development.

Quote from: tower912 on April 20, 2025, 04:11:43 PMLooking forward to growth and development.

I hope so.

Quote from: tower912 on April 20, 2025, 04:11:43 PMLooking forward to growth and development.

No other choice.  It will be interesting.  If they are an NCAA team this year with the arrow pointing upward, all the portal talk should lessen significantly IMO.  I know it won't but that would be my opinion.

Quote from: jfp61 on April 20, 2025, 04:10:18 PMI missed all of those games he must have started.

So because he didn't start, he's incapable of guarding the other teams best player? I'm confused.

Quote from: jfp61 on April 20, 2025, 03:24:02 PMI was asked to say why without stats because they would be "skewed" as backups.

I say why with opinion, and without stats.

I get told that I don't have evidence.


Evidently you all have faith that's great. I just want to add one mid major guard in the portal please. That's it.

I don't want to watch these two guys start without competition. It's naive to they will preform at an upper half of the Big East level.

As I said, I don't know.

And you don't know, either.

I'd also like to see us bring in an experienced guard (and an experienced big) to be part of next season's rotation, in an ideal world.

But our roster wishes don't mean Jones and Lowery have shown "no sign" that they could be good. Indeed, I provided specific positive signs for each player.

Once upon a time, growth and development was the norm.  MU fans were driven crazy by Bo being so good at it up the road.  MU has been spoiled only starting 8 players over the last three seasons.  Shaka has chosen to stay old school, which feels subversive, instead of getting in a bidding wars for a MAC or Horizon league guard. 

I am more optimistic about it than most. 
1.  The 6th year guys are gone.
2.  There simply aren't that many portal guys that MU could afford who are better than what is already at MU.
3.  I am genuinely enthused about Ben, Royce, DO, Chase, and Zaide. 
4.  There are questions about Caedin, Josh, Tre, and Sean's knee.  But there are also reasons for optimism.
5.  Shaka et al have a history of developing players.  As well as the fact that most players get better.  So, based on that, they are all going to be somewhat better.  The question is how much better and how soon.

For the first time since Shaka's first season, there are unknowns and likely competition for starting spots and other roles.  Cool.  Sounds like fun.

This is a big year for Shaka because he's only developing his guys now. Wojo was a frustrating in-game coach, among other things, but he and his staff could find some great players. Hopefully Shaka brought in some smart choices as recruits and can make an early difference.

Quote from: jfp61 on April 20, 2025, 01:46:59 PMWould you rather me say "typically degenerative"?

Typically when you tear an acl. You don't run faster. You lose function.

jfp, degenerative usually means a wearing out, as something degenerates, as in degenerative arthritis (osteoarthritis). ACL injuries tend to happen to young, active athletes. Rehab from such an injury can lead to performance not characteristic of degenerates, but of otherwise healthy young athletes. Don't write Sean off, there are too many success stories of athletes who have recovered from such injuries.