The more I dwell on it, they stunk.

18-2 in the Big East would normally be amazing.. and it still kinda is. Nonetheless, a lot of bad teams in the conference this year.

St. John's offense sucked, and it was largely by design. I suppose Aaron Scott is the one who jumps out as having a worse-than-expected 3FG% performance, but this team couldn't shoot for crap and didn't get to the line. The offense was freaking doomed. #88 in offensive efficiency, #68 kenpom Adj OE. Absolutely brutal.

RJ Luis was fun to watch at times, but here's a 29% %Shots guy had a 48.3% eFG% and was not connected with his coach in the tourney.

They started the year ranked #19 in kenpom.. ended at #14. Never reached the top 10. Offense blew it big time.

The highest KP ranked opponent the entire season? Marquette at 29. Give 'em credit for getting the job against solid but not great opponents, but their three highest KP wins were against the Warriors. Yeesh. 

Their highest KP nonconf win was at home against 41 New Mexico. Next highest? At home vs. 65 Kansas St., a sub-.500 team.

As a comparison, Marquette's highest 3 KP wins? At 10 Maryland, home vs. 12 uw-madison, and home vs. 15 Purdue.

Anyway, just wanted to say that for being 31-5 (18-2), when I look at St. John's in hindsight I say, 'what an eff'd up team.. they were never going to do anything nationally this past season'.

That said, would expect them to address the 3FG% shooting (and alter the 3FGA/FGA mix probably) to some extent -- difficult to not improve,  but would think they'll get after that because otherwise the ceiling is too low.

Crown 'em if you want, but for that record, they were BUMS.

I had St. John's losing in the second round in my bracket pools. I was the only one, couldn't put my finger on it and was too lazy to really investigate but it constantly seemed like a paper tiger with good defense

Too reliant on the mid range.

Quote from: tower912 on April 17, 2025, 02:11:04 PMToo reliant on the mid range.

And that aircraft carrier

Quote from: tower912 on April 17, 2025, 02:11:04 PMToo reliant on the mid range.

The offense was definitely their Achilles heel

Pitino failed to adapt to the modern game and then he died

Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 17, 2025, 03:03:58 PMThe offense was definitely their Achilles heel

Pitino failed to adapt to the modern game and then he died

Has never been strong when it comes to the deep game.

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2025, 03:51:19 PMHas never been strong when it comes to the deep game.

Sounds like you're speaking from experience, ai'na?

Did they not win the regular season and BET???

Quote from: WolfganghisKhan on April 17, 2025, 04:29:35 PMDid they not win the regular season and BET???

Yes, and High Point did the same in the Big South.

Quote from: Jay Bee on April 17, 2025, 04:33:40 PMYes, and High Point did the same in the Big South.

Buzz was right about the Big East becoming a low-tier conference!

Quote from: MU82 on April 17, 2025, 05:59:23 PMBuzz was right about the Big East becoming a low-tier conference!

But he left the BE for the ACC which has become even worse!

Im also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent,  but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 18, 2025, 07:51:58 AMIm also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent,  but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.

Adapt or die. 

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 18, 2025, 07:51:58 AMIm also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent,  but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.

RJ Luis is available.

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 18, 2025, 07:51:58 AMIm also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent,  but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.

Just think if Pitino understood this concept, maybe he could figure out a way to start winning at this level. Heck, he might even figure out what it takes to win championships and turn programs around quickly that have been bottom feeders for years. 

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on Today at 08:44:21 AMJust think if Pitino understood this concept, maybe he could figure out a way to start winning at this level. Heck, he might even figure out what it takes to win championships and turn programs around quickly that have been bottom feeders for years. 

Like Shaka had done two years prior.

A couple of prescient scoopers had opined that SJU wouldn't get far in the Dance because they were used to mugging BE teams and they wouldn't get away with it in the tournament.

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on Today at 08:44:21 AMJust think if Pitino understood this concept, maybe he could figure out a way to start winning at this level. Heck, he might even figure out what it takes to win championships and turn programs around quickly that have been bottom feeders for years. 

So youre saying you should trust a coach who won a double big east championship and earned a 2 seed in year 2? Even if he got upset in the round of 32?

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on Today at 11:15:10 AMSo youre saying you should trust a coach who won a double big east championship and earned a 2 seed in year 2? Even if he got upset in the round of 32?

When you have a HOF resume like Pitino, yes. 

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on Today at 11:18:43 AMWhen you have a HOF resume like Pitino, yes. 

So even HOF coaches get upset as 2 seeds in the round of 32? I thought it was unacceptable

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on Today at 11:20:26 AMSo even HOF coaches get upset as 2 seeds in the round of 32? I thought it was unacceptable

When Shaka's had multiple national titles, Final Fours, and second weekends, I'll cut him the same slack too.  Pitino's earned a few more benefits of the doubt.  You act like Pitino just arrived on the scene. 

Pitino has won 2 NCAAT games in his last 6 seasons as a head coach. He followed each of the 2 wins with second-round losses as a 2-seed, with Louisville in 2017 and with St. John's last month.

He has one fewer NCAAT win and one fewer Sweet 16 appearance over that span than Shaka does, and we all know that Shaka is an abject failure.

Folks say that Shaka hasn't been to a Final Four in so long that it means  nothing in the context of how he should be judged at Marquette, and those folks are probably correct.

Well, it's been 12 years since Pitino has coached a team to the Final Four. He has more major scandals in that time than FF appearances.

Quote from: MU82 on Today at 11:59:23 AMPitino has won 2 NCAAT games in his last 6 seasons as a head coach. He followed each of the 2 wins with second-round losses as a 2-seed, with Louisville in 2017 and with St. John's last month.

He has one fewer NCAAT win and one fewer Sweet 16 appearance over that span than Shaka does, and we all know that Shaka is an abject failure.

Folks say that Shaka hasn't been to a Final Four in so long that it means  nothing in the context of how he should be judged at Marquette, and those folks are probably correct.

Well, it's been 12 years since Pitino has coached a team to the Final Four. He has more major scandals in that time than FF appearances.

If Hutch is willing to consider cutting Shaka some slack , perhaps you could cut Pitino some also.