Be like one of the 290 teams that hit the portal and didn't make the NCAA tournament.  The portal is an easy panacea.

Quote from: Big Papi on April 10, 2025, 01:30:25 PMThey won a Big East season title, the Big East conference tournament title, beat us all 3 times we played them and advanced to the second round of the NCAA.  Yes, they got upset in the second round.  Shooting woes happen to really good teams in a 1 off game, cue NC State.  St. Johns had issues, 3-point shooting in general and it reared its ugly head when they couldn't overcome it.  Got a feeling Rick is going to address that issue for next year. 

Overall, I would call their season a huge success no matter what and it's something that is achievable for us, 2022-23 and should be the goal every year(Winning BE conference season and Big East title and getting high seeds)  As we start trending away from that, you need to start looking at what are you doing right, what went wrong and what do you need to do to get back to that level.  Our team has a lot of growing to do over the off-season to get back to where we were at just the last few seasons.

I also would call St. John's season a huge success; some might disagree with us.

A one-season "trend"? Hmm. UConn's one-season trend is so bad they should just shutter the program!

I agree we need several of our players to improve for next season to continue Shaka's run of success at Marquette.

Quote from: drbob on April 10, 2025, 03:25:48 PMI understand the game has changed. That is not the point. Al's tenure was the obvious pinnacle of MU's basketball success. I see no reason to not want to strive to that level of success again. I don't care if Shaka uses the portal or is able to achieve this with high school recruits. { which seems to be the harder route}  If you are a Marquette fan why not yearn for better.  I don't think Duke fans think that coach K's past success is not still the program goal. I think Shaka is a class act.  Hopefully his project bigs will provide some level of frontcourt toughness and rebounding that has been missing.

Have people from your era forgot Al didn't wake up and make the title game?

He had a couple rough years, lost the NIT final, lost to Purdue, skipped the tournament, lost to Ohio state, lost to Kentucky, etc. all without Final Fours to show for it. Any you think Shakas not striving to build to that? I know hindsight is 20/20 but the love for Al is wild it's like everyone forgot how long he was here before they got to that "peak". Do you think Shaka got the 2 seed and set a program record in wins swept the conference titles then just thought, "cool we don't have to win anything now"

Difference is Duke had proved with two other coaches that they could make multiple final fours/title games before K came around, K proved they could make it, and win it, multiple times and now another coach has proved he can do it.

What in MU's history suggests our best years are easily replicable and that level of success in our program is sustainable year in and year out? Everyone talks about trends recently because of last year. We have ample data suggest that after Al our best years occur in pairs and doesn't consistently stay that level: 78/79, 02/03, 12/13, 23/24. I personally am thrilled the step back wasn't like 04 or 14.

"Shaka doesn't use the portal ergo Marquette doesn't want to win like the days of Al"

Just bizarre takes these days around here.

Quote from: The Sultan on April 10, 2025, 04:08:25 PM"Shaka doesn't use the portal ergo Marquette doesn't want to win like the days of Al"

Just bizarre takes these days around here.

Shaka needs to get Don Kojis 2.0

And a John Glaser.  Every modern team needs a 6'4 power forward.

Quote from: The Sultan on April 10, 2025, 04:08:25 PM"Shaka doesn't use the portal ergo Marquette doesn't want to win like the days of Al"

Just bizarre takes these days around here.

I have great memories of the Al Era.

 Shaka should not be saddled with comparisons nearly a half century old.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 10, 2025, 04:05:13 PMHave people from your era forgot Al didn't wake up and make the title game?

He had a couple rough years, lost the NIT final, lost to Purdue, skipped the tournament, lost to Ohio state, lost to Kentucky, etc. all without Final Fours to show for it. Any you think Shakas not striving to build to that? I know hindsight is 20/20 but the love for Al is wild it's like everyone forgot how long he was here before they got to that "peak". Do you think Shaka got the 2 seed and set a program record in wins swept the conference titles then just thought, "cool we don't have to win anything now"

Difference is Duke had proved with two other coaches that they could make multiple final fours/title games before K came around, K proved they could make it, and win it, multiple times and now another coach has proved he can do it.

What in MU's history suggests our best years are easily replicable and that level of success in our program is sustainable year in and year out? Everyone talks about trends recently because of last year. We have ample data suggest that after Al our best years occur in pairs and doesn't consistently stay that level: 78/79, 02/03, 12/13, 23/24. I personally am thrilled the step back wasn't like 04 or 14.

I'm pretty annoyed by you applying common sense and keeping things in perspective.

You clearly hate winning.

Quote from: tower912 on April 10, 2025, 03:56:27 PMBe like one of the 290 teams that hit the portal and didn't make the NCAA tournament.  The portal is an easy panacea.

...and the only team to make the NCAA tournament that did not hit the portal got bumped out by a lower seed that hit the portal in the first round. I guess not hitting the portal is an easy panacea for making the tournament.

In fairness how many transfers went to mid major or low major D1 schools from high major programs and did not make the tournament?

The portal is a synonym for "free agent" and with NIL Marquette is facing the new college landscape and with the court ruling how much of the Athletic department's budget is the University going to allocate compensating the "scholarship" athletes will be an indication of how competitive we want to be in all sports.

Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 10, 2025, 05:20:41 PM...and the only team to make the NCAA tournament that did not hit the portal got bumped out by a lower seed that hit the portal in the first round. I guess not hitting the portal is an easy panacea for making the tournament.

In fairness how many transfers went to mid major or low major D1 schools from high major programs and did not make the tournament?

The portal is a synonym for "free agent" and with NIL Marquette is facing the new college landscape and with the court ruling how much of the Athletic department's budget is the University going to allocate compensating the "scholarship" athletes will be an indication of how competitive we want to be in all sports.

Like in Al's day, what really matters is the education these student athletes will receive

Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 10, 2025, 05:20:41 PM...and the only team to make the NCAA tournament that did not hit the portal got bumped out by a lower seed that hit the portal in the first round. I guess not hitting the portal is an easy panacea for making the tournament.

In fairness how many transfers went to mid major or low major D1 schools from high major programs and did not make the tournament?

The portal is a synonym for "free agent" and with NIL Marquette is facing the new college landscape and with the court ruling how much of the Athletic department's budget is the University going to allocate compensating the "scholarship" athletes will be an indication of how competitive we want to be in all sports.

With transfers on the team, we might have won the NM game. With transfers on the team, we might have been a 10 seed. I guess there is no easy panacea for making the tournament.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 10, 2025, 01:52:23 PMIs a single year a trend when looking at 4 years? No.

Next year we can argue about trends but thus far we took no key transfers and lost no key returnees, to improve to a 2 seed, did the same to stay at a 2 seed, did the same and fell off to a 7 seed (which I think we could make a damn good argument had more to do with sudden shooting woes from proven shooters than tripling down on the system given how the non con and early conference records looked)

No the damn good argument is that this was Shakas weakest team since year 1 without any bangers AND 3 POINT SHOOTERS.

Quote from: willie warrior on April 10, 2025, 07:05:31 PMNo the damn good argument is that this was Shakas weakest team since year 1 without any bangers AND 3 POINT SHOOTERS.

Thanks

Quote from: willie warrior on April 10, 2025, 07:05:31 PMNo the damn good argument is that this was Shakas weakest team since year 1 without any bangers AND 3 POINT SHOOTERS.

 And this coming season, we will not have the 4 bangers Muggsy ordered. We're so screwed.

Quote from: willie warrior on April 10, 2025, 07:05:31 PMNo the damn good argument is that this was Shakas weakest team since year 1 without any bangers AND 3 POINT SHOOTERS.

What would you personally call two returning players who shoot 40% from 3?

Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 10, 2025, 07:31:26 PMWhat would you personally call two returning players who shoot 40% from 3?

Shaka should have known Kam and Joplin wouldn't shoot well.

If Shaka's not clairvoyant, joyless willie says he's gotta go so we can bring in a coach who is.

Perhaps Shaka could try something old school like the triangle offense!

Shaka is great and convincing young men to learn his scheme and could be a great opportunity to modernize the "old school cool"!

Quote from: MarquetteBasketballfan69 on April 10, 2025, 09:30:49 PMPerhaps Shaka could try something old school like the triangle offense!

Shaka is great and convincing young men to learn his scheme and could be a great opportunity to modernize the "old school cool"!

Hmmmmmm

Chase needed surgery.
Owens needed surgery.
Sean was recovering from major surgery.
Stevie had achilles tendinitis.
Ben (reportedly) had shin splints and a broken finger.
Kam and Joplin shot 3s had a much lower percentage than previously.

Quote from: tower912 on April 11, 2025, 07:15:12 AMChase needed surgery.
Owens needed surgery.
Sean was recovering from major surgery.
Stevie had achilles tendinitis.
Ben (reportedly) had shin splints and a broken finger.
Kam and Joplin shot 3s had a much lower percentage than previously.

I don't think anyone disputes this even thiugh we're hearing more of the severity. 

The learning for me is that if Shaka wants to play the style he deployed at the beginning of the year, we need more depth. Clearly you can't maintain it with a seven to eight man rotation with the starting five playing over 70% of the total mins.   

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2025, 07:24:59 AMI don't think anyone disputes this even thiugh we're hearing more of the severity. 

The learning for me is that if Shaka wants to play the style he deployed at the beginning of the year, we need more depth. Clearly you can't maintain it with a seven to eight man rotation with the starting five playing over 70% of the total mins.   

In my preseason prediction, I had DO as the 6th man, playing nearly starter minutes by the end of the year.   Oops.

My mantra for the season was get healthy, stay healthy, make 3s, develop the bench.   Double oops. 

I agree about depth and loathe when coaches in general shorten their rotations from 9 to 7.  Shaka is guilty of this.

Next season, the question for me is whether any of the freshmen end up forcing their way in front of the returning 9. 

Quote from: tower912 on April 11, 2025, 07:34:54 AMIn my preseason prediction, I had DO as the 6th man, playing nearly starter minutes by the end of the year.   Oops.

My mantra for the season was get healthy, stay healthy, make 3s, develop the bench.   Double oops. 

I agree about depth and loathe when coaches in general shorten their rotations from 9 to 7.  Shaka is guilty of this.

Next season, the question for me is whether any of the freshmen end up forcing their way in front of the returning 9. 

I dont think Shaka 'shortened the rotation'.  We didnt have the players in a position to TAKE mins....the injuries and falloff of team performance just shine a brighter light on that. 

NCAA CBB gets younger next year.  I am cool with a develop and pay to retain mantra/culture.  In this environment though it puts more pressure on ready now freshman and we've yet to see that work.  Hopefully next year is the exception.

I would argue the opposite. Going forward with 15 man rosters, assuming Shaka stays, continues with his current philosophy, and continues to get buy in, I see less pressure on freshmen to be immediate impact.  There will always be 9-12 sophomores, juniors, and seniors.   The occasional freshman will play so well he forces himself into big minutes.  But by and large, the big minutes will go to those who have already been through an offseason or more of growth. 

Quote from: tower912 on April 11, 2025, 08:02:45 AMI would argue the opposite. Going forward with 15 man rosters, assuming Shaka stays, continues with his current philosophy, and continues to get buy in, I see less pressure on freshmen to be immediate impact.  There will always be 9-12 sophomores, juniors, and seniors.   The occasional freshman will play so well he forces himself into big minutes.  But by and large, the big minutes will go to those who have already been through an offseason or more of growth. 

Counter point - we were not a young team.

It's year 3? of Shaka deploying the strategy.  2024 we didnt have enough players to take the mins to play our style.  Next year will likely be stressed and need frosh to step up. 

If what you describe isnt already happening, I have a hard time seeing it change less a infusion of more players capable that can allow a bigger rotation.

2024 had a 13 scholarship limit and we had 3 players red-shirt. 2025-on is a 15 scholarship limit and there are no obvious red-shirt candidates (i.e. none of the true Freshman are "projects").